I have always liked cloning and have done both in the past but only would clone from a vegging plant to get a mother every once and awhile. I would always keep mother plants to supply my room because I read some years back that potency and yield decrease as you keep cloning down the line of clones. Is there any truth to this? A clone is supposed to be identical to the host??? I am constructing a grow space and would like to do some what of a perpetual cycle but would like to save space and energy not housing mothers. So from those that do one or the other, or have done both I would like to hear your thoughts.
Cloning from mothers vs. cloning from vegging plants HELP...
- Thread starter Pooters
- Start date
golddog
Well-Known Member
I take my clones from flowering plants at least 2 weeks into flower (sometimes 3 or 4).
After they have rooted, I veg them under a small floro until they go into my veg box. My veg box is a footlocker with 4 CFL's and 2 20 watt floro's (if I need them) I have 2 computer fans (intake & exhaust) for air flow.
When I harvest from the grow box, I throw in the vegging plants, maybe a week or so (as I transplant them), then 12/12.
Right Now I have (indoors) 5 Blue Dreams and 4 Bubba Kush (10 weeks?) going crazy, I also have 5 rooted Blue Dreams and 5 rooted Bubba's, and 6 yet to show roots.
Not Perpetual, but close.
After they have rooted, I veg them under a small floro until they go into my veg box. My veg box is a footlocker with 4 CFL's and 2 20 watt floro's (if I need them) I have 2 computer fans (intake & exhaust) for air flow.
When I harvest from the grow box, I throw in the vegging plants, maybe a week or so (as I transplant them), then 12/12.
Right Now I have (indoors) 5 Blue Dreams and 4 Bubba Kush (10 weeks?) going crazy, I also have 5 rooted Blue Dreams and 5 rooted Bubba's, and 6 yet to show roots.
Not Perpetual, but close.
The more I think about it I think I am going to take clones from my begging or flowering plants and cycle them like that. I say some what perpetual because I plan on going with 2 600 watt lights 9 -16 plantsu under each light. So every 4-5 weeks I harvest 9-16 plants depending on strain. Hay golddog or anyone else that has an option this is a little off topic but I don't know if ur doing soil or hydro but I am doing soil or soilles mix but was wondering what are the best organic nutrients that don't have two many parts? I would like to have one res and can water all plants in the flowering room regardless of what stage of growth week they are in. Just another attempt to save some space if possible but if it is better for my harvest to use a multi parts product I will.
9867mike777
Well-Known Member
I don't think clones deteriorate from one generation to the next. It is exact copies, because it is the same plant as the first one, just like you say. It is more digital copying, nothing like an analog Xerox copy machine, where variations can enter the equation. What might happen is an old mother plant might be more exposed to pests just because of the longevity of life. This might cause grow room problems.
i have a perpetual grow of 6 plants every other month starting next month...finally :
:
:It is official no mother plants for me. Now I don't need to get another vegg light. Now I just need to decide on a strain for down the road. I am going to start with these black jack beans I have had for a a month or two. And find a good organic fertilizer. I have done synthetic but don't want to deal with salt build up, burning and so I won't need to flush so much just the last two weeks.
reggaerican
Well-Known Member
i hear alot of talk over this topic and i cant say what is better... i have done both but never side by side...
if you ask me i think there is no difference...
if you ask me i think there is no difference...
sparkjumper
Member
I like to take cuts from near the bottom/bottom middle from the vegging plants and put them under a 12/12 cycle right after taking cuts.I will take a cut thats been under 12/12 for 3 or 4 days,but not much longer than that.If you take cuts at 10 days-2 weeks your cuts will contain pistils you can be sure.And people that have grown clones for awhile know pistiless veg cuts lead to the best outcome.Thats because they are growing nothing but green foliage and growtips,especially when you hit them with some nitrogen.On the other hand,a clone the same size but with many pistils will continue to use a great deal of its energy producing more pistils.Bottom line..you dont want a sexually mature clones unless you plan on flowering right away.I normally veg my cuts several weeks until they look like beanstalks lol I like um big and I have the headroom.I hope some of you understood what I am trying to say about pistilled and pistless clones
golddog
Well-Known Member
It is easier to take clones from vegging plants, but not necessary.
You get much bushier clones when taken from flowering plants, they just take a little longer.
If you would like some documentation, READ Jorges Bible. He recommends clones at 2-3 weeks.
BTW - I don't have any issues cloning during flower.
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
Mothers or veg I think makes little difference. I think it comes down to space limitations. Clones taken from flower have to revert back to vegetative growth and will take 2-3 weeks to do so. Don't know about the bushiness thing I always just trained my plants.
I'm doing hydro now but in my outdoor days I ALWAYS grew from seed as seeds grow a tap root.
Btw.. Jorges bible page 55 " cloning from a flowering plant is difficult and the results are not always the best..poweful flowering hormones must be reversed and rooting hormone signals must be sent"
I don't know any growers that plan on taking flowering clones, this is only done when it has to be. But hey, if it works for you it works.
I'm doing hydro now but in my outdoor days I ALWAYS grew from seed as seeds grow a tap root.
Btw.. Jorges bible page 55 " cloning from a flowering plant is difficult and the results are not always the best..poweful flowering hormones must be reversed and rooting hormone signals must be sent"
I don't know any growers that plan on taking flowering clones, this is only done when it has to be. But hey, if it works for you it works.
golddog
Well-Known Member
Hey legalflyer,
Two sides I see...
If I want quick clones or I need a lot, I would clone a bunch from veg. They will root in a week and you can go to town.
I on the otherhand, don't need quick clones. And I don't need them in a hurry, so it works for me. They will usually root in 2-3 weeks instead of one. If you have a good setup for cloning, this should not be an issue.
That said, I am in weeks 10 on some Blue dream, and I know it will need at least another 2 or 3 weeks. The cuttings I took 2 weeks ago are already rooted (rapid rooters) and I have put them in 4 oz cups w/FFOF. I will put them in my veg box until I harvest.
If I had taken the cuttings before I put them in flower, they would have been vegging for 6 or 7 weeks.
So that's why I do it
Two sides I see...
If I want quick clones or I need a lot, I would clone a bunch from veg. They will root in a week and you can go to town.
I on the otherhand, don't need quick clones. And I don't need them in a hurry, so it works for me. They will usually root in 2-3 weeks instead of one. If you have a good setup for cloning, this should not be an issue.
That said, I am in weeks 10 on some Blue dream, and I know it will need at least another 2 or 3 weeks. The cuttings I took 2 weeks ago are already rooted (rapid rooters) and I have put them in 4 oz cups w/FFOF. I will put them in my veg box until I harvest.
If I had taken the cuttings before I put them in flower, they would have been vegging for 6 or 7 weeks.
So that's why I do it
sparkjumper
Member
golddog the reason cervantes take cuts at two or three weeks is because he expects those cuts to be put under 12/12 right away,a sea of green type thing.I like to take pistiless cuts in veg because I'm going to veg those cuts for 4-6 weeks before flowering them.I have an 8 by 8 flowerroom with 3 1K vertizontals and I like my plants to yield 4 oz. minimum.If I took pistilled cuts after rooting much of the energy would be used producing more pistils since it came from a sexually mature plant,I want 100% of the plants energy into producing foliage,not pistils
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
I guess it's all a matter of timing then. Good to know that taking flowering clones is an option. I just popped 6 white rhino seeds and need to veg/ sex/ and clone them. Maybe I'll flower all of them and take cuttings. Instead of pushing clones to flower to sex then.
How long would it take to revert rooted clones back to veg? 2 weeks? That might work best. Take a shit load of clones from each plant, flower them, trash males and revert the females
How long would it take to revert rooted clones back to veg? 2 weeks? That might work best. Take a shit load of clones from each plant, flower them, trash males and revert the females
9867mike777
Well-Known Member
You can also take your plant completely to harvest, chop everything but a few small bud sites on the bottom, put it back on 24 hour light cycle and "re-veg" it. It does take some time to start growing again, but it has the advantage that you know the entire history of the plant, from seed to harvest. Also, since you chopped it all down, it will invariably put out many shoots which would be good for cloning. If you really have a nice plant, this is one way to salvage it for another crop of clones. Or you can even put the re-veg back on 12 hour day and go for another run that way. Next time I do this, I might repot it when I start the re-veg process.
cadeneli
Active Member
When I clone and don't have a mother, I veg til I see preflowers. The time and energy waisted on cloning a flowering plant can be saved by simply allowing the vegging plant to mature long enough to show its prefowers. Sorry if I missed something. Just quick scanned the thread.
Ok here is the truth for ya not what suites your needs or what people want to hear!
The fact is strains do get shittier with time do to stress so the less the plant is stressed the less the deterioration of the strain!
So lets look at the methods taking cuttings from your vegging plant stressing the hell out of them ever couple weeks clearly is the most stressfull!
While having a mother and only pruning her every couple weeks this is my vote as taking a cutting of a mother is way less stress on a plant then trying to root!
So in short if you love your strain keep a healthy mother and start a new one when you think she is getting old or stressed!!!
The fact is strains do get shittier with time do to stress so the less the plant is stressed the less the deterioration of the strain!
So lets look at the methods taking cuttings from your vegging plant stressing the hell out of them ever couple weeks clearly is the most stressfull!
While having a mother and only pruning her every couple weeks this is my vote as taking a cutting of a mother is way less stress on a plant then trying to root!
So in short if you love your strain keep a healthy mother and start a new one when you think she is getting old or stressed!!!
legallyflying
Well-Known Member
Word. Plus rep for speaking the truth of the matter. Some people will clone of clones for 10 generations. They are gentically identical but genes are only half of the equation. In some ways plants are like young children. You mollest them bad when they are young and they will never recover. It's not all that bad as the world
needs porn stars and strippers but I grow my own seeds so I know exactly what I'm getting.
I am sure everyone on here trims, grooms or tops there plants during vegging. This adds a small amount of stress and normally uet them recover for about a week or so. So taking a clone or to will not add no more stress then what is already done. I am not saying take enough to fill the garden from one plant but one or two from each. Unless u really like one plant over the rest and want to fill the garden with it. I plan on growing 12 under one light, take a clone or two from each during the trimming phase then vegg for 4 weeks and do the same with the other lights so they will be a month apart and keep repeating.