Crazy deficiency or burning? PICS!! I cant figure it out!!!

Hello all, thank you for stopping by, any help is greatly appreciated. I have been trying to do my own research in identifying the problem and am thoroughly stumped.

I am an amateur grower with only 2 successful grows under my belt, and by successful i mean i got something to smoke out of it, no jaw-dropping yields. This time i wanted to do it right though, so i spent money on a couple nice lights, and decided to try my hand at hydro.

I am using a dwc setup, with botanicare cn-17 nutes, and aquashield. At this point i have only used the grow nutes and aquashield. Plants are about 5 weeks from seed and are clearly stunted. Temps are almost always right around 70-79, water temps are never over 65, usually 60 or under. Ph is very stable, i rarely ph down, always to 5.8 or as close as possible. I have ended up with a very awkward feeding schedule trying to figure out the problem. But even in the strongest dose they have never had more than about 1/2 to maybe 3/4 strength nutes. Possibly even less. recently i have also added a small amount of epsom salts.

Basically, problem is, older leaves ALWAYS develop several rust colored spots, then eventually completely brown, dry out to a yellower color, and curl up and basically die. New growth continues to be vigorous, leaves growing bigger and bigger each new set, then eventually suffer the problem as they fan out. Newer leaves were looking a little purple for a while, but that stopped after adding more nutrients.

The problem im having, is this is the second set of plants this happened to. I scrapped the first set almost as soon as the problem hit, as i wanted a fully successful grow. I assumed i had burned the shit out of them, since they were pretty damn young when they ran into trouble, even though i was only feeding them a very week nutrient solution. At that point they should have been able to live off of their cotyledons. So of course, it must be nute burn. This time around i went sooo easy on nutes its ridiculous. then, after initially doing better than the first set, they were hit with the same problem, with NO NUTES.

At this point, i was baffled, gave them some nutes to see how they responded. Plants grew a little more vigorously, an have now formed 4 or 5 new nodes since the problem first started, but all the fan leaves eventually curl up and die! This is very frustrating. The other day i decided it was time to see if this was nute burn or deficiency. So i gave them a pretty healthy extra helping of nutes. This bumps them up to about 3/4 strength if i remember right. For their size i thought this was far more than necessary. Of course, i see ZERO reaction. No better, no worse. Plants are still doing the SAME THING.

I have included pictures of everything i can think of. The new growth remains healthy looking, old growth looks horrible. PLEASE HELP!! i want to grow something successful!

The deformed, gnarled, fresh growth you're seeing comes from the pH being too high. The dying leaves are mostly Phosphorus deficient but you need to fix the pH before giving them more P.

ph has been constantly 5.8. its really never dipped below 5.5, or risen above 6.5. i see the Phosphorus deficiency signs, i just dont know why. temps arent too cold, the nutrient is in the system, and the ph should certainly allow for phosphorus use.

this plant has had this problem its whole life. I dont understand how it continues to grow...

That's weird, how old is that plant. what's the light schedule?

Shonts said:

How are you taking ph readings?

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That would be my next question.

give us a rundown wit a littl more to go off...... water temp(tap or r/o water).. nutes use(n.p.k.).. canopy temps.. humidity.. ppm(tds).. ph(electrinic?).. and lighting.. and n e thing else you can think of.. needs to know it all

Looking at the new growth, I see the Nitrogen Claw. It looks as an attempt was made to compensate for another deficciency? What are the ppm readings?

alright,

im just using drops to measure ph, so the readings arent precise, but i generally know the right orangy-yellow color that puts its right around 5.8. I CAN guarantee it has never been higher than a pure "yellow" reading (6.0), and its never been more orange than yellow, indicating a 5.5 or lower ph. I know its not super precise, but im pretty damn sure that the ph has always been in the range of "safe" where all major nutes can be absorbed.

water temp, as i said, has never gone above 65. usually its right around 60 on the dot. Canopy temps are in the 70's, high 70's during the day, sometimes getting just under 60 at night.

Using r/o water.

I do not have a proper ppm tester, if/when i buy one it will be the nicest i can get, so i have been going strictly on my own measurements of added nutes and ph.

I do however have the ability to test the levels of the n/p/k to a small degree using a simple soil testing kit, similar to the way ph drops work. It shows all three as being easily available, and close to a surplus.

i just noticed a fungus gnat today. I dont know much of anything about pest problems, but its my understanding they are mostly a problem with soil. Is it possible they have done the damage we are seeing?

As far as nitrogen claw goes, ive been very curious about the look of the new growth, but i really doubt its a lack of nutes. I havent done anything to compensate for deficiency, other than add more of the grow nute blend with a little of everything. I recently added a dash of epsom salt in case it was mg deficient, but not enough to lock out ca or anything like that.

Since it seems so hard to link this to a specific deficiency, is it possible this is purely a pest/fungal problem?

thanks to all

Drops are about as accurate as tasteing the nut soup and giveing a number. You can look at the PH test solution in one light and see one color then change position and see another. I know this, i have used them when my PH pen broke. If you have to use drops, the best method is to watch the coloration as the drops hit. If they have a redish hue when they hit, then turn orangeish-yellow when you adgitate, it is about 5.5-5.8. But if when they hit they have a dark color and turn yellow you are in the 6.5-6.8 range.
I am not very good at explaining my method. But do not just add the drops and shake it. Watch the drops hit, in a good amount of light. before I started doing this, i had a nut lock-up, when I thought I was at about 5.6PH. I took a little of the nut mix to a buddies house and check with his pen, it was 6.4 PH. If you are going to run DWC you better have an accurate pen, of you are just asking for trouble.

Hey, sorry for jacking the thread but i have a Ph test pen thing thats water proof. I cant calibrate the thing properly it keeps reading like 9.4 or some shit in the buffer 7 solution and like 5. soemthing in the 4 buffer....

jimmyjam22 said:

Hey, sorry for jacking the thread but i have a Ph test pen thing thats water proof. I cant calibrate the thing properly it keeps reading like 9.4 or some shit in the buffer 7 solution and like 5. soemthing in the 4 buffer....

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Is it one of those cheap $20 milwaukee's from ebay? I have one of those, eerrrrrr had one. it is junk.

I see RO water and NO cal/mag suppliment of any kind in here.
If thats the case your going to have all kinds of issues, and they will tend to look like other problems.
Without proper calcium and magnesium levels the plants ability to properly use any nutes is thrown waaaaay out of whack.

So if your really not using a cal/mag addition, your soil does not have good lime content and your on RO water I see a neon sign of a problem.

Grabbed this off of the CNS17 sheets
"CNS17 combines high levels of calcium with sulfates and phosphates to guarantee a complete spectrum of plant nutrients"
Well ok so no calcium issues but what about mag? Extra Calcium without the correct ratio of mag is just as bad.

Its worth researching whats actually in the CNS17 to make sure its really a "1 part" forumla like it claims.

I did a little snooping around the nets and found people using CNS17 straight with no issues and alot that still use Cal-mag sups in an RO enviroment so I cant stand behind my claim with much confidence.

Good luck to you sir!

Ok so i think I may have a solution.


You are in DWC. Describe your medium if you will please.

Next. You are in gh ph kit with the drops. You say your ph Is perfect. I say ok mane...

Do you ph after adding nutes? Some people forget after and fuckin burn the shit outa their plants my man. So just wondering mane no big deal.

Third. You are using liquid nutes. Are you noticing any sodium build up mane?? Could be a problem if it happens.

Fourth, mane. Can I see some root porn mane? Are they white? Brown? Greyish in color, mane? Roots often tell you the health of your plant mane.

Over all brainstorm ideas that came from this session are,

Maybe ju got sum rotting corpses somewhere mane? Ju kno, like roots that dead n' chit. Ju know what I am saying mane?

The purple you speak of makes me think shit got locked up or slowed way down. When and how often do you change your res broseph?

i think they are overwatered to start with.

ValleGrown said:

The purple you speak of makes me think shit got locked up or slowed way down. When and how often do you change your res broseph?

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His Res water is 60 degrees. I think that is a bit cold and could be causing lock out and the purple.

joe9000 said:

i think they are overwatered to start with.

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In DWC, the roots live in oxygenated water. I'm not sure how you can overwater when the roots live in water?

Serapis said:

His Res water is 60 degrees. I think that is a bit cold and could be causing lock out and the purple.



In DWC, the roots live in oxygenated water. I'm not sure how you can overwater when the roots live in water?

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Ah, Serapis. We meet Again my friend. How grows it. (pun is so intended)
I agree you cannot really overwater a plant that solely depends on water as it's medium.


However, OP brig you res temps to 65-68 and you should be golden my bruddah.

You're going to need to work on your pH accuracy. The readings you've posted vary too much, and that's assuming they are correct. The pH could be worse than you think. First and foremost, try to get a better tester. Imo every grower should have at least two testers for their medium; 2 soil testers or 2 liquid testers for hydro. At least one should be of a type that doesn't go bad or lose accuracy over time and that one is used to verify the primary tester's readings. You should test the solutions before, during and even after giving it to the plants.

Please elaborate on your DWC process. After reading through the thread again, I didn't see mention of liquid aeration, liquid changing or container cleaning.