Cross breeding your own seeds question

whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't just throw pollen from a male. Take a cutting from him and flower it out. Yes it is a male but we need to see all traits. Flower several out.

Males can produce THC and tricomes if you flower one out long enough. I have have edibles from males that wrecked me.

It something no one pays attention to.

When you flower it out, it gives you the flowering time, structure, smell, color, all things you want to pay attention to.

Save a cutting from the father. Breed your f2 you want back to the father. Repeat as you select straights. It will be an inbreed, but stable line.
 
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hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
The only f1's that have 2 phenos are ibl's. F1's can have anywhere from 3 - 20 phenos

You want to grow as many seedlings as possible to pheno of hunt what you will work with makes and females. There's some traits in males you don't want. For example you don't want a stretchy male. That's indicative of hemp traits. You also don't want a male that shows sex right away either. So grow out all the males and choose the one that's most appealing to you. Color, structure, trichomes, sometimes the smell of a stem rub.

Then once you've made your seeds. Then do the same thin again . Pheno hunt everything til you find what you want. Then make f2's and start a seed company o_O:P.
 
greywind

greywind

Well-Known Member
Mendelian genetics will give us a basic understanding of how traits will be passed down through each filial generation when crossing two different varieties. Determining what traits are dominant and/or recessive in a male is what separates true breeders from pollen chuckers in my opinion. Also, starting with true, homozygous (IBL) parents makes a world of difference in stabilizing progeny.

With the vast majority of the available genetics being poly-hybridized to the extreme, most "breeders" these days seem to create F1's and release to the public. I find it almost laughable when I see companies offering their F2 creations for the same price as their F1's. Work it until the F3 line if you are "breeding" for certain traits, or offer your "choose your own pheno" F2 hunter's packs for a fraction of the cost.

We've been conditioned for the hunt in this modern era of cannabis growing, but I for one would like to know what terpene profile, growth tendencies, and harvest times to expect from a ten pack when I make a purchase. I think that would be nice...
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
you can buy 10 packs of ten f1's of a strain, plant them all and be lucky if ONE of them resembles the write up and picture of the strain u purchaced... that is not uniformity,,,sorry f1's are not uniform..ive bought thousands of seeds,,and planted hundreds already to this day the only plants that wer anything resembling the write up wher out of stabilized hybrids or ibl's or bx3's..not saying i dont get killer females out of just about every pack of ten f1's but never a plant that was identicle to the picture and write up.. if seed co's sold replicas of the strain in the pic that wer uniform they would go out of business.. if u want uniformity find a good strain and clone it,,or buy stabilized seeds,, f1's are for phenio hunting,f2's hunting is even harder...i do wish just once id get a plant in my pack of f1's that was identicle to the write up and pic that got me buying that strain to begin with..i wonder why i even read the write ups or buy certain strains? i know what to call them i guess,,but they are never what i thought i paid for...
 
kgp

kgp

Well-Known Member
Ibl x ibl = f1 should all be similar

F1 x f1 = f2 should show a great amount of phenos favoring one parent or the other

Poly hybrids aren't real f1's

Poly x poly = who the hell knows

Don't breed with poly hybrids for anything consistent, it's a crap shoot

Most seeds you buy today are poly hybrids
 
v.s one

v.s one

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
The only f1's that have 2 phenos are ibl's. F1's can have anywhere from 3 - 20 phenos

You want to grow as many seedlings as possible to pheno of hunt what you will work with makes and females. There's some traits in males you don't want. For example you don't want a stretchy male. That's indicative of hemp traits. You also don't want a male that shows sex right away either. So grow out all the males and choose the one that's most appealing to you. Color, structure, trichomes, sometimes the smell of a stem rub.

Then once you've made your seeds. Then do the same thin again . Pheno hunt everything til you find what you want. Then make f2's and start a seed company o_O:P.
Click to expand...
What about males with hollow stems ? Is that a good or bad trait to have?
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
kgp said:
Ibl x ibl = f1 should all be similar

F1 x f1 = f2 should show a great amount of phenos favoring one parent or the other

Poly hybrids aren't real f1's

Poly x poly = who the hell knows

Don't breed with poly hybrids for anything consistent, it's a crap shoot

Most seeds you buy today are poly hybrids
Click to expand...

seems to me we are being lied to by seed distributers.. most seeds say that they are f1's but as u say in reality they are poly hybrids.. i mean if it said in the write up this is a poly hybrid with many different phenio's who would buy them?? so insted most say f1's or stable cross,,we buy, we plant, we get 10 different plants out ten different seeds...for me, i try to buy stabilized hybrids if i can but even then not all are the same there is variation, but overall the stabil seeds seem to have more uniform traits..like i said every f1 pack i buy, i back cross the best male n female 3 or 4 times i end up with stabil seeds but they are very seldom anything like the write up unless i get a really nice male out the pack that has pronounced traits like smell n crystalization.. but in every 10 pack im lucky to get 3 males to choose from,,so its tough, finding the best female out of 6 or 7 females is the easy part...
 
genuity

genuity

Well-Known Member
I use to run white Russian fem seeds...always the same plants,
After a 1-2yrs of growing like that,I was sick of it.I need variety,not a repetitive grow room..

Now I do clone runs every other yr,other than that...I'm popping poly hybrid. ..not multi poly,that's another story..that's really digging.
 
D_Urbmon

D_Urbmon

Well-Known Member
genuity said:
I use to run white Russian fem seeds...always the same plants,
After a 1-2yrs of growing like that,I was sick of it.I need variety,not a repetitive grow room..

Now I do clone runs every other yr,other than that...I'm popping poly hybrid. ..not multi poly,that's another story..that's really digging.
Click to expand...
Variety is the spice of life! :)


I desperately want a mono strain crop so bad but I just don't have the self control to pull it off. So much stuff I want to try! I don't think I could ever go back to having a single flavor.
 
S

ShyGuru

Well-Known Member
@genuity understand what your saying about variety but I think @TheChemist77 has a very good point. If you're tired of the white Russian wouldn't it be nice to pop something else that remotely resembles the reason you bought the strain in the first place? I understand with seeds nothing is ever 100% guaranteed but a higher likelihood would be nice. Not knocking any specific breeders just making a statement.
 
SmokyLungs

SmokyLungs

Well-Known Member
Well if that's the case I see no need to bash breeders for pollen chucking if u have to hunt for the actual image pheno no matter what unless back crossed or stable landrace strains which I have yet to see in USA banks
 
K

ky man

Well-Known Member
genuity said:
I use to run white Russian fem seeds...always the same plants,
After a 1-2yrs of growing like that,I was sick of it.I need variety,not a repetitive grow room..

Now I do clone runs every other yr,other than that...I'm popping poly hybrid. ..not multi poly,that's another story..that's really digging.
Click to expand...
That is the kind of plants I like to run where every plant is the same.Iam a grower not a breader and if I know the plants will be close to all the same I know moor about what I will have at chop time.but I cant find seeds that the plants will be the same at chop time but wish I could...ky
 
K

ky man

Well-Known Member
genuity said:
I use to run white Russian fem seeds...always the same plants,
After a 1-2yrs of growing like that,I was sick of it.I need variety,not a repetitive grow room..

Now I do clone runs every other yr,other than that...I'm popping poly hybrid. ..not multi poly,that's another story..that's really digging.
Click to expand...
That is just a nother reason that I switched to most fem, seeds.ky
 
RM3

RM3

Well-Known Member
v.s one said:
What about males with hollow stems ? Is that a good or bad trait to have?
Click to expand...
In the book where the hollow stem thing began there was a science report about hemp that was referenced. Few know that the pic in the book was upside down when published and the caption was plant on the left, plant on the right kinda thing all backwards because the pic was upside down. That was back in the 70's and now with all the inbreeding it no longer matters.
Yes I have the book, here is a pic,,,,,
.
T_SAM_3954.JPG

And here is the page with the stem info,,,
.
T_SAM_3953.JPG

and here is the image as it appeared in the Science Bulletin,
.
1975-21-3-finished_Picture3.jpg

from here, http://botany.org/PlantScienceBulletin/psb-1975-21-3.php

It's fun when you actually know how the myths were created isn't it LOL

Don't get me started on amber trics lmao
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
greywind said:
Mendelian genetics will give us a basic understanding of how traits will be passed down through each filial generation when crossing two different varieties. Determining what traits are dominant and/or recessive in a male is what separates true breeders from pollen chuckers in my opinion. Also, starting with true, homozygous (IBL) parents makes a world of difference in stabilizing progeny.

With the vast majority of the available genetics being poly-hybridized to the extreme, most "breeders" these days seem to create F1's and release to the public. I find it almost laughable when I see companies offering their F2 creations for the same price as their F1's. Work it until the F3 line if you are "breeding" for certain traits, or offer your "choose your own pheno" F2 hunter's packs for a fraction of the cost.

We've been conditioned for the hunt in this modern era of cannabis growing, but I for one would like to know what terpene profile, growth tendencies, and harvest times to expect from a ten pack when I make a purchase. I think that would be nice...
Click to expand...
It shouldn't be hard or expensive to do it.

I can go buy flowers or vegetables that are stable and I know what to expect for a dollar a pack.
 
RM3

RM3

Well-Known Member
I have been breedin for a lot of years, have over 100 strains I've made. I can tell you that finding a great male is key and there are several things to look for.

Tight ball clusters and trics 8)

and yes you can smoke males to get an idea and you can rub the stems and leaves to get a sense of the smells.

This is what a good boy looks like 8)
.
ctf-f3-male.jpg ctf-f3-male2.jpg
 
SmokyLungs

SmokyLungs

Well-Known Member
RM3 said:
I have been breedin for a lot of years, have over 100 strains I've made. I can tell you that finding a great male is key and there are several things to look for.

Tight ball clusters and trics 8)

and yes you can smoke males to get an idea and you can rub the stems and leaves to get a sense of the smells.

This is what a good boy looks like 8)
.
View attachment 3693497 View attachment 3693498
Click to expand...
U could beat some one up with that hammer male
 
A

althor

Well-Known Member
SmokyLungs said:
Well if that's the case I see no need to bash breeders for pollen chucking if u have to hunt for the actual image pheno no matter what unless back crossed or stable landrace strains which I have yet to see in USA banks
Click to expand...
Personally, I feel like if the strain isnt worked and has some kind of consistency then it isnt a strain at all. I am not saying that is the definition, that is MY FEELINGS on the matter. Dont give me a pack of seeds that grow 10 different plants and call it a strain.
 
Beemo

Beemo

Well-Known Member
kgp said:
F1 x f1 = f2 should show a great amount of phenos favoring one parent or the other
Click to expand...
not according to the master breeder... kmog33.... f2's are the worst LOL.....
kmog33 said:
F1 generally don't have that much genetic drift. Usually 2-3 phenotype expressions. The next en gets a little crazier.
Click to expand...
if you want to know how to breed here you go.... watch out he might tell you to go look up a word LMAO.....
https://www.rollitup.org/t/best-overall-breeder-thoughts.898503/page-3
 
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