Designing my new gardens

Hey folks!
Time to get my new gardens planned and built, which is giving me a hell of a time.
So I really appreciate inputs, ideas, and admonitions too
nods @DonBrennon & @TheStickMan (yeah it's still not built lol)

• Basically, it's a 2-part setup: a veg shelf and a grow room.
• I tend heavily towards no-till and big bushes at the moment hehe
  
• whereby I also want to get into growing regulars in the course of this year, which will have to involve smaller containers and recycled soils if I get that right...
• so I need a main grow space that is flexible and can do veg and flower side-by-side just as well as a big long-ass reg-veg with an auto or two in it, where I can scrog or LST or go vertical, whatever, in the next few years.
  
• The cannabis is only a part of the total system, and will have to share spaces with my veggies here and there- especially the nursery area. (Probably more a question of time stacking: not to have males during the main vegie-propagation times)

The growroom:

• For starts, I'm going to be using the equipment I have, whereby I plan on going all LED (thinking around 4-500W total) and perhaps getting an S&P soundproofed vent... though actually I need much less airflow -- even in the new space just 60m³/h - and that's calculated with a complete turnaround of the air volume every 5 mins, plus added 30% to take carbon filter resistance into account...
  But I digress, the hardware:
  • Lights:
    • LED: 200W of Cree COBs 3500K
    • HID: 150W MH & HPS
    • CFL: 1x 200W each of 2700K & 6500K
  • Ventilation:
    • max. 800m³/hr Ventilator with carbon filter, regulated via 5-step transformer
    • oh and that lil 15cm fan for air movement, probably will want supplementation...

• can have a max floor space of 1 x 1,60m (= 3.3 x 5.25 ft) with a room height of 2,4m(= 7.88 ft)
  so that's an area of1.6m² = 17sqft
  and a room volume of 3,84m³ = 135 cuft
  
  
  
  So enough space for 2 gals in big pots, 4 in 28L, or more in 12L. I'm hesitant to go any smaller than that.. though my protoplasma water feedings may be just perfect for keeping those smaller containers supplied... main thing is: I want em wavy and happy, not squished and cramped as they were in my closet!

• needs to be as soundproof as is reasonably affordable, since it'll be in my bedroom
  Alot of that is going to be in the wall buildup, whereby I am thinking of insulating the fan itself too.
  At the mo, I'm thinking a double-layer drywall on the outside to absorb the low frequencies, and something rougher between the frame posts for the high ones & for storing humidity? I'd like the walls to be as narrow as possible whilst fulfilling aaaaallll my wishes haha

• also has to function as a humidifier for my apartment.
  I've moved to a new-fangled passive energy house, and they're blowing the perheated air into my apartment at 20% humidity (don't argue. Don't even comment. I can have screaming fits about this all day and would like to spare you that LOL). Because, things over people and all that. So instead of BUYING a humidifier and WASTING electricity to correct their health-damaging system at my own cost (the official recommendation), I shall build an organic humidifier that uses a bit more energy but gives all sorts of lovely byproducts.
  So I will be funneling one of the apartment's intake spots into the room - it's been at a pretty constant 20°C (68°F) and 20% humidity all winter, though I have yet to see what will happen in the summertime. As to amounts, the "normal" setting for the apartment makes for a turnaround of 1/3 of the apartment volume/hr, I let it run at "minumum" most of the time, which has to be less, but noo idea how much that is. So I do need a second intake, which will be from the bedroom.
  I was a bit scared I would overload the system fan(s) by ducting the air from the intake hole (10cm diameter) near the ceiling to the growroom floor where I want it, but have since tested that with a piece of 20cm ducting - and I doubt it will create problems.
  To give you a better idea, here's the corner the space will be built into:
  (some of you may recognize parts of my old closet haha)
  and the ducting 10->20:

The nursery

is part of my general gardening area that includes my wormbin, resource collection, perennial edibles garden, and soilfying experiments -- aaand also needs to house all my div. handcrafting stuff, my microscope, and have a biiig workspace for painting, potting, and everything!
All on 4m² LMAO
Just so it's clear why the nursery is already at max size

It's basically just a convertible shelf/mini-closet for sprouts, clones, sexing... and males.
dimensions:

• as a shelf with storage space under: 1m wide x 55cm, just shy of 60cm high, as depicted
  I'm figuring I can do the cloning+sexing in there too...
  
• as a minigrowspace it'll be max 1m high,
  and yeah I'll have to give some attention to actually sealing it off.

• Lights:
  for now, I'm using my old bentup seedling lights (55W, adding the 2nd bulb gives me 110W in there, I can raise it so it only takes 10cm height off the total), looking to go LED here too... some bridgelux strips over at cutter caught my eye a while back...
  Same goes for the perennial herb & tomato garden that'll sit atop of the space similarly to how it is now.nThat 50W COB lights up half the apartment and is a total waste of electric
  
  
• Ventilation:
  I was thinking just a computer fan would do the job until I started thinking about flowering males. I wonder, do males smell as much as females? Will a DIY carbon filter do the job?
  But will the plants even fit in there? What pot size is the minimum for a good healthy male plant?
  I could of course let them bloom out on my balcony, but in summertime there won't be any sun there, plus knowing me, all doors will be open all the time and the pollen will be in the air and get into the growroom... agh! lol

Does this look like it could work?!?
Especially the nursery seems iffey to my mind, probably not lastly because I haven't done regulars at all yet

And any ideas on a slender but effective wall buildup for the growroom?
Cheers!

Look into isolation clips or isolation channels to fix between the stud work and the plasterboard, acoustic rockwool in the cavity and look into greenglue to use between layers of plasterboard. It helps cut down on the low frequencies that fans make. Sounds like your on the right track though, just thought I would mention those things because I spent month reading up on soundproofing my room, it was that or stop growing because it turned out the walls between my house and the neighbours were crazy thin.

coreywebster said:

Look into isolation clips or isolation channels to fix between the stud work and the plasterboard, acoustic rockwool in the cavity and look into greenglue to use between layers of plasterboard. It helps cut down on the low frequencies that fans make. Sounds like your on the right track though, just thought I would mention those things because I spent month reading up on soundproofing my room, it was that or stop growing because it turned out the walls between my house and the neighbours were crazy thin.

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Ah great, looks like I can get that greenglue stuff hereabouts too (I'm in Europe)
Looks cool! thanks for the pointer - and the reminder to isolate all over the attaching points too
As for the rockwool, try as I will, I can't find any data as to how thick a layer would have to be to actually be effective.
Would a 4-5cm layer even be worth the work?

Males barely smell. You have to get close and then it's a mild fresh smell. Nothing like the females.

SouthCross said:

Males barely smell. You have to get close and then it's a mild fresh smell. Nothing like the females.

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Thanks man, makes the sealing task in the kitchen less onerous, though it might as well be well done if I'm going to do it anyways

calliandra said:

Thanks man, makes the sealing task in the kitchen less onerous, though it might as well be well done if I'm going to do it anyways

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No problem. I grow from seeds. I can stick a male in the backyard for experimentation. Like how much watering, feeding, and all around abuse. He doesn't stink.

No worries on the males making the kitchen smell like there's a skunk family hiding under the sink.

It's going to smell....You need enough fan to run somewhat a negative pressure on the space. Where all the air is pushed or pulled through the carbon. Not leaking out of any gap. It's easier typed then done.

calliandra said:

Ah great, looks like I can get that greenglue stuff hereabouts too (I'm in Europe)
Looks cool! thanks for the pointer - and the reminder to isolate all over the attaching points too
As for the rockwool, try as I will, I can't find any data as to how thick a layer would have to be to actually be effective.
Would a 4-5cm layer even be worth the work?

Click to expand...

No worries. I too am European for the time being!
I used 4inch RWA (acoustic rockwool) in my floor cavity, its not the most effective but it does help, more so on the air flow noise, if you look up the tests on youtube its pretty good, although I have to say its better for high frequencies than low. I also used the spare stuff to box in both my fans. Makes it a chunky ass fan though.
It might be more worth while to treble up on plaster board both sides than use rockwool if your struggling for every cm on wall depth.

coreywebster said:

No worries. I too am European for the time being!
I used 4inch RWA (acoustic rockwool) in my floor cavity, its not the most effective but it does help, more so on the air flow noise, if you look up the tests on youtube its pretty good, although I have to say its better for high frequencies than low. I also used the spare stuff to box in both my fans. Makes it a chunky ass fan though.
It might be more worth while to treble up on plaster board both sides than use rockwool if your struggling for every cm on wall depth.

Click to expand...

hm actually I like that idea - that or as third layer these sand-boards (if I can get them here's a description in English: http://www.acaraconcepts.com/soundproofing/). Then, in between the frame posts, I could put wood fiber boards - those soft ones, that are good for sound absorption as well as humidity regulation - and finish it off with a nice natural clay plastering
Thing is, the plasterboard part would then almost be thicker than the frame... could that cause stability issues?
the frame is going to be attached to the walls and the ceiling, I'm trying not to drill into the floor, though in the end I probably will near that outer corner

If your frames built strongly and secured to the ceiling and walls you should be pretty stable.
Looking forward to seeing this project when its done. Should work pretty well.

coreywebster said:

If your frames built strongly and secured to the ceiling and walls you should be pretty stable.
Looking forward to seeing this project when its done. Should work pretty well.

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Then the wall buildup is pretty much figured out, just dependent on availability of materials
Cheers for the help, I'll definitely post the end result, least I can do!

Now all I need there is to figure out the best dimensions - taking air humidity and wattage into account alongside # of plants ...
not today though, my brain's a mush today haha

calliandra said:

my brain's a mush today haha

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That's what Sundays are for!!

calliandra said:

The growroom:

• needs to be as soundproof as is reasonably affordable, since it'll be in my bedroom
  Alot of that is going to be in the wall buildup, whereby I am thinking of insulating the fan itself too.
  At the mo, I'm thinking a double-layer drywall on the outside to absorb the low frequencies, and something rougher between the frame posts for the high ones & for storing humidity? I'd like the walls to be as narrow as possible whilst fulfilling aaaaallll my wishes haha

And any ideas on a slender but effective wall buildup for the growroom?
Cheers!

Click to expand...

I have built soundproof walls in the past using the following method;

Kingspan cavity wall insulation, it comes in a range of thickness to suit so that will come down to how thick/thin you want the partition wall to be.


Metal studwork using C stud below, and U channels below right



Once you have placed cavity wall insulation (against room wall) make the partition studwork using C & U channel then finally you attach soundboard plasterboard to the stuwork. I used Gyroc Soundbloc (below)



In this scenario the sound now has to travel through lots of different density materials (3 in total including house wall) plus an air gap... All in all it makes for some serious noise reduction

Ps you will need a hacksaw to cut studwork, plasterboard screws, a drill & drill bits plus some screws to screw C stud to U channel.

Hey Cali. Nice shiny new thread to follow. I'm here if you don't require any advice at all. Lol

mattyblade1 said:

Hey Cali. Nice shiny new thread to follow. I'm here if you don't require any advice at all. Lol

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heyhey Matty, thanks for dropping by!
and psml @ no advice - I think you're safe, because this is a hopeless case anyway I suspect!

I've been meaning to update here, but was feeling sheepish about all my grand insulation plans after realizing some things about this build:

• the way I wanted to do it far exceeds my budget (which ideally would be zero at the mo lol)
  - the 4cm hemp mats are like 10€per m²
  - green glue would cost like 27€ /m²
  - at least the drywall is only like 4 €/m² ...
  
• and FML! how can I stealthily get 2.6m long drywall boards into my apartment (and with what explanation, given this is a brand new house lol)...

So with a very rough estimate of 400€ looming in the background, all of a sudden I began to question its usefulness, considering I was cutting all sorts of holes into the walls: air intake, air output, the freaking door, which I thought would be cool if it were a hidden one, like a false wall with a shelf attached to the front, on wheels pmsl

And then the drywall-expert friend who was going to help me changed his mind - long story, but he just can't.
Waaay too much on my plate to think through and do all on my own, with a sketchy mind and two weak-ass hands

So I've gone through all sorts of other possibilities, but keep coming back to a space of 80 x 160cm.
To me, at the mo the best bet seems to be: build it step by step.
Just put up the frame first, and a layer of drywall on the outside..) maaaybe the hemp inside - I do like it because it will also help with stabilizing humidity..
Sheez my grunge-grower friend just has a frame and that black&whie foil thrown over it for his grows, never mind air filtration lol (ok, I do try not to have to smoke his weed though lmao)
it'll be noisy yeah, but once the first harvest is in I can then add the green glue & 2nd drywall, which I do think will be very useful, as I checked my ventilator and its dB's are highest in the lower frequency range, as is the pump for my compost tea

So I get to stay somewhat on the ground with my costs for now, but still have the possibility of getting nice soundproofing later...

Another thing that's been plaguing me is the house's air input -what if it's too much and creates positive pressure? (OK turn up the fan a notch, grr).
But what if temps go whack in summer?
I need to be able to plug the house intake ducting directly to the growroom's outtake duct, so the dry house system's air doesn't go into the grow room at all but at least gets mixed with the hopefully more humid air from the garden before it's blown into the flat to us humans.
But I think they need to blow into that exit channel from the same direction, else the two air streams could block each other?

Ahhh, I just end up confusing myself LOL
so best to just put up that frame and then see, probably just getting some more ducting and taping it all together for a first run.
I need to get growing again!
Cheers!

Can you tell me what green glue is? Are you attaching the sheetrock with glue?
Can you get the boards cut in half to truck into your house with a little more stealth? (a little more work but what can you do)
Do they sell greenboard there? If so I would recommend that on the bottoms (the ceiling and tops aren't as important IMO) then top with a layer of kilz or something similar.
1/2" of sheetrock will give you 30 minutes of fire protection if installed correctly, so keep that in mind if anyone tells you to skip out on the inside wallboard.

Is this permanent?

NaturalFarmer said:

Can you tell me what green glue is? Are you attaching the sheetrock with glue?
Can you get the boards cut in half to truck into your house with a little more stealth? (a little more work but what can you do)
Do they sell greenboard there? If so I would recommend that on the bottoms (the ceiling and tops aren't as important IMO) then top with a layer of kilz or something similar.
1/2" of sheetrock will give you 30 minutes of fire protection if installed correctly, so keep that in mind if anyone tells you to skip out on the inside wallboard.

Is this permanent?

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Hey hi, thanks for chiming in
yeah semi-permanent, I'll want to remove it when I move out

I'll definitely look into getting them cut!
Is greenboard the bathroom flavour drywall? if so, yes we have that here. But kilz? sounds dangerous!

Green Glue is a soundproofing compound recommended by coreywebster above
heres a description of how it's applied: http://www.greengluecompany.com/products/noiseproofing-compound?p_ins=131
Cheers!

Okay...sounds good. Greenboard is heavier (more expensive too) and has antimicrobial in it. Kilz is just antimicrobial primer.

Are you dead set on metal studs? Why not wood?

Nope, nothing antimicrobial is going in my living soil garden
And yes, they're going to be of wood, metal isn't my medium at all.

calliandra said:

Nope, nothing antimicrobial is going in my living soil garden

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??? You really don't want mold in your sheetrock which is what it prevents (made for damp conditions). I can assure you wont affect your garden at all.

Ey up!!!
Absolutely love the kitchen and the nursery! Looks brilliant!
I don't think I can give you any advise as you are already clued up way beyond my simple noggin!
The only noise issues I have is a little vibration from the air stones. Everything else is contained within the room. I use earplugs all the time because of staying in hotels with inconsiderate arseholes, ever thought of using those instead?