Did the state make you great?

ginwilly said:

good topic bedspirit and probably deserves it's own thread. I'm for limiting power any man would have over another but the hows are complicated. I'll chew on it a bit and get back to you.

I would think Harley Davidson would be a successful example of employee owned companies.

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beenthere said:

With all due respect to everyone that's given their two cents on althors comment, all of you are venturing away from the point he was making.

It doesn't matter if the federal government was funded by tariffs or that the constitution was amended.
His statement stands on it's own, the constitution was originally written so the federal government had the powers to collect taxes from individual states and not from it's citizens.

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bedspirit said:

I believe you're referring to the Articles of Confederation and not the Constitution. Under the Articles of Confederation, the federal gov't couldn't make the states pay the requisition, and some didn't. This why Article 1 Sect. 8 of the Constitution gave the federal government the power to tax. It wasn't an amendment. If you're arguing that the federal gov't shouldn't be able to tax, then you're actually arguing that we should go back to a time before the constitution was written.

That's so odd. I have to know where these ideas are coming from. It sounds like a little history rewrite in order to achieve some other goal.

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beenthere said:

Althor was correct, the federal government could accept taxes (donations) from the states, in 1789 the constitution under Article 1 section 8 gave congress the power to levy taxes on individual states, but not on it's citizens.
I still think you confused how the government relied on revenue with the governments ability to collect revenue.

Just saying

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The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defenceand general Welfare of the United States

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One of the most often claimed defects of the Articles of Confederation was its lack of a grant to the central government of the power to lay and collect taxes.[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] Under the Articles, Congress was forced to rely on requisitions upon the governments of its member states. Without the power to independently raise its own revenues, the Articles left Congress vulnerable to the discretion of the several State governments—each State made its own decision as to whether it would pay the requisition or not. Some states were not giving Congress the funds for which it asked by either paying only in part, or by altogether ignoring the request from Congress.[SUP][5][/SUP] Without the revenue to enforce its laws and treaties, or pay its debts, and without an enforcement mechanism to compel the States to pay, the Confederation was practically rendered impotent and was in danger of falling apart.
The Congress recognized this limitation and proposed amendments to the Articles in an effort to supersede it.[SUP][6][/SUP] However, nothing ever came of those proposals until the Philadelphia Convention.

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canndo said:

"other people did that"... So fine, the infrastructure is paid for by the individuals - but they do so collectively which is the same thing - namely "others did that". But beyond that.. The right is always quick to claim that our way of life was paid for by the blood of our military. Kindly show us how busnesses have paid for that in full.

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MuyLocoNC said:

I detailed that in the previous post. Every gallon of gas that business purchases includes embedded taxes. As they grow and deliver more products, thereby driving more miles, they pay more of those embedded taxes. If they use a carrier to deliver their products, those embedded taxes are passed along to them by the freight companies with which they're contracting. If they grow and buy more land for increased space, they pay more property tax. If they buy more more vehicles they pay more property tax. Increase in cell phone usage or more lines, all kinds of embedded taxes linked to increased use. Same thing with ISP's for their internet service. My point is, there is no aspect of infrastructure use that isn't already taxed at a rate that is parallel to the "perceived" burden or wear and tear that the use has on the infrastructure. Many, including myself, would say the level of taxation is remarkably higher than the actual use warrants.

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Red1966 said:

"in full"? How can one pay for a life in full? Your question has no answer. Half the country pays taxes. They pay for everything the government provides, except for what the government has borrowed, and they will eventually pay for that. The other half? They do nothing but demand more and more services from the government. Politicians are more than happy to buy their votes with promises of more such "services", after all, they stick the public with the bill. We have reached a tipping point. Half the population contributes less than they take. Rome fell because the populous voted themselves so many benefits, the government let the military go without sufficient funds to defend the empire. Illiterate raiders from the north and Muslims from the south saw their weakness and chipped away at them until they collapsed. I fear that is our future. Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

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canndo said:

Yet again, someone explores the dark harbinger of the destruction of capitalism. There is no provision for our economic system in the constitution. Capitalism, contrary to many's beliefs is not a legal entity. Some actually believe there is the executive branch, the legislative branch, the judicial branch and.... capitalism. In fact it may well be the destructive nature of capitalism that brings this country down and not the actions of government at all. I wonder how few folks consider that. Now as I have been talking about here, government's sole responsibility is to provide order. There is nothing about "protecting life liberty or property" as the only right you are guaranteed is the right to due process. Look carefully at corporatism before you go claiming that everyone who doesn't believe that government is the only danger is a fool.

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cannabineer said:

love the new avi bedspirit. His blood is green. cn

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ChesusRice said:

Or let's say you are a plumber and in the state all you need to be a plumber is a sign So you go and plumb a house and you have inadequate vents for the system. Not only did you screw the job up that you alreay got paid for but the methane gas built up and exploded the house

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ChesusRice said:

Half the population pays no taxes

LOL
Wonder what the percentage was when the baby boom was going on and women werent in the workforce

Because I know damn well my Grandmother and 12 year old daughter aint paying no federal taxes

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BA142 said:

Half the population pays no income tax.....In reality, only 10-15% of people pay ZERO taxes. The 50% number is people who pay income tax.....hell, illegal immigrants contribute billions every year to SS according to the social security admin....plus sales tax and property taxes....PLUS they can't really abuse the welfare system like regular American citizens can...

Illegals are better than lazy American's.

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ChesusRice said:

Half the population pays no taxes LOL Wonder what the percentage was when the baby boom was going on and women werent in the workforce Because I know damn well my Grandmother and 12 year old daughter aint paying no federal taxes

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ChesusRice said:

No way
Illegals pay nothing in taxes
They dont have a green card and when they purchase stuff they are exempted
They even get rebates from their landlords for the portion of their rent that goes towards taxes
Ever notice they get gas cheaper than the rest of us?

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Samwell Seed Well said:

are you sure about this DA . . . . .not sure if your joking or just being cynical

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