Do the Saudis have it right?

dankie

Well-Known Member
So I was reading Time a few weeks ago, and this article came to mind while discussing waterboarding in a seperate thread.


Call it the anti-Guantánamo.
Young Saudis are captured in Iraq waging jihad against the American infidels. But instead of being shipped off to a bleak detention camp in Cuba, they are dispatched to a cozy chalet an hour outside the Saudi capital of Riyadh. Technically it's a detention center, but no one is forced to wear an orange jumpsuit or a blindfold. And far from being condemned to solitary confinement, its occupants are free to roam the landscaped courtyard and play Ping-Pong, volleyball and video games.
Photos





Welcome to the Care Rehabilitation Center, part of a three-year-old experiment to reform malleable minds who have fallen under the sway of Osama bin Laden's radical brand of Islam. To get here, jihadis have to demonstrate during a prison interview a readiness to rethink their extremist views. (About 20% of the 1,875 holy warriors invited to participate have refused.) The program, developed by a team of Islamic scholars, psychiatrists and sociologists, tries to convince these men of their mistakes and make them productive members of Saudi society, which has been rocked by terrorism: al-Qaeda attacks have killed 144 people there over the past four years. By not treating the detainees as criminals, the center seeks to avoid reinforcing their radicalism and turning them into role models for more jihadis.
Although the perimeter is guarded by police, the facility feels like a country club or college campus. Detainees have lots of downtime and soda pop. They spend their days in vocational training, psychological counseling and classroom lectures, most of which are given by religious scholars from the Ministry of Islamic Affairs, including the center's director, Sheik Ahmed Hamid Jelan. He walks the detainees through religious texts on jihad--a theological minefield, considering that while the Saudi government forbids fighting in Iraq, it once recruited young Saudis like bin Laden to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. The basic difference, Jelan explains to his charges, is that fighting the Soviets served the interests of Saudi Arabia and the Muslim world, while struggling against the U.S. in Iraq does not. "We answer all the questions about al-Qaeda concepts by referring to the Koran and the message of Islam," says Jelan. "We have dialogue. They become convinced."
Among those on the road to reformation: Abdullah Sherif, 28, who went to Iraq in 2003 with four friends hoping to become martyrs resisting the U.S. invasion. At the rehab center, after feasting on lamb, rice, stuffed peppers and Pepsi, he explains how his fellow jihadis died in a U.S. air strike in Kurdistan early in the war. He was captured eight months later by U.S. troops in Mosul and turned over to Saudi authorities. "I had these ideas in my head," Sherif says of the teachings of bin Laden, whom he once regarded as a hero. "But he made a lot of mistakes, like targeting Saudi Arabia." The former jihadi now plans to take up Islamic studies and open a car-repair shop when he gets out of rehab.
Once Sherif is deemed fit for release, he will be sent home and, like the 700 or so others who have been discharged by the center, monitored indefinitely. Ex-detainees are given a monthly stipend--typically about $700--and sometimes a new car. Family members are enlisted to help watch over these men, who are strongly encouraged to start families of their own. Having children, the thinking goes, lessens the temptation to rejoin the jihad, which is why the program makes available upwards of $20,000 for an ex-detainee's wedding.
The Saudi government claims the program has been hugely successful, and security officials from other Arab countries have visited to see if the model might work for them. In the presence of guards, detainees say they want to resume normal lives, but perhaps a more telling sign is a game of Ping-Pong between a detainee and an American reporter. When the visitor makes a particularly impressive play, showing his powerful forehand, cheers from onlookers fill the evening air.

So what do you think? Are we making more enemies than we have to by treating them like satans spawn?
 

closet.cult

New Member
damn. that's an extreamly humane concept. nothing like the heavey hand of uncle sam, these days. i'll admit some skeptism to the rehabilitation of a mass murderer. but i myself was at one time under the brainwashed spell of organized religion and would have died for my beliefs, though i would not have killed for them-but only because they told me not to. there is no end to the crimes of blind religious fervor.

good luck to these outside the box thinkers.
 

medicineman

New Member
Heck yeah, we could have given every al queda fighter a million bucks and spent far less than we have on this unwinnable war.
 

donnieosmond

Well-Known Member
That's a great idea. Maybe it'll work for the long run. They certainly need a lot of psychology from being brainwashed their whole lives.
 

Stormfront

Well-Known Member
That's a great idea. Maybe it'll work for the long run. They certainly need a lot of psychology from being brainwashed their whole lives.
wait...brainwashed? by who? Most of the fighters waging jihad do it on the base fact that they know the second they all put down their rifles the U.S. will declare victory again, move thousands of troops in an occupational force into THEIR country, set up bases on THEIR holy land, and completely destroy their Long celebrated religion, corrupting their children with name brands and television..and so on and so fourth, the reason these people are fighting is not religion. Any Muslim will tell you that it is not lawful to kill in any situation except defense, there is no such thing as radical islam, there are people who say they do it for god, though their motives are quite the same as those who occupy their land. My real question is how many of you talking about the brainwashing are Muslim? how many of you have studied Qu'ran? What proof of brainwashing do you have? We in the US call them Terrorists, what would you do if a bomb fell on your home, you're whole family was killed, and you were still alive, would you run away and hide, or would you fight? I would die for my land, my family's blood, i would do exactly what these people are doing and I'm sure most of you would too given the same situation, but no, we're lucky enough that cruise missiles aren't flying through our neighborhoods, there are no F-18's dropping bombs in our neighborhoods and there is absolutely no need for us to wake up in the morning and pray that we dont lose another family member before the day ends....these are all thing to remember while you type about what's going on with these crazy "Insurgents".
 

donnieosmond

Well-Known Member
I assumed using the word brainwashed would get some bleeding heart to blab about how the US is tyrannical. Newsflash: The US already HAS thousands of troops in their country. The notion that us "winning" the war would bring more troops in their country is not only completely false but makes no sense at all. No one is going to set up a base in their holy land. Where are you getting this info? You're making assumptions that aren't even based on prior history and if they are give me the dates and facts. Let me tell you sir, I have been to the middle east and lived there for 6 months and I CAN tell you that all muslims who are not extremists DO believe there is such thing is radical Islam and that the extremists ARE fighting for religion. Well, their own religion. You are completely void of anything that makes sense in that ENTIRE paragraph. So when I say they are brainwashed-- they ARE. At a young age they are taught the extremist way that everyone who is not Islam should be either converted or killed and there is no other way. They are taught that women are to be slaves and not equal to men, etc... When I say brainwashed sir, I am not referring to all Muslims because I support the Muslim faith in its true form. You're mixing up regular Muslims with "Insurgents" (Which you put in quotes for some reason). So keep making up things that you want to say and forget using any kind of actual fact. Unfortunately for you I'm calling bullshit because, despite what you think, I happen to know a lot about this topic. Nice try.
 

Stormfront

Well-Known Member
wow you crack me up...seriously.

no prior history? amazing... where have they done it before? I'm speechless, you really do believe you're intelligently making a real statement.

6 months huh? i lived in Lebanon for 3 years, i visit anytime I can (provided certain nations aren't bombing the airport)

extremism is sketchy in word usage, first of all i doubt any muslim told you there is such thing as radical Islam, because, well, there isn't there are crazy people out there who ARE muslim, as there are crazy christians...BUT do not mistake news cast reports as factual statements.

everyone who is not Islam should be either converted or killed and there is no other way
I don't believe that to be true, that statement reminds me of the bullshit they got the US believing about 73 virgins...when in Qu'ran there is nothing mentioned except that you will have you're WIFE in the afterlife.
-if that is a true statement, get me facts and a source, I'd like to know who confirmed that.

also the word insurgent is a fake word for these fighters, Al Queda are terrorists, all muslims who aren't on their side know that, but the term Insurgent is applied to the men and women who fight to protect their country from a completely illegal invasion of a clearly occupational forces, whether you agree or not, there is a large number of US troops all over the arab regions, they have bases or what they call "pre-positioning points" in EGYPT, KUWAIT, AFGHANISTAN, SAUDI ARABIA, TURKEY, QATAR, BAHRAIN, OMAN.... the list goes on...do some research before saying i don't know anything.

This has been happening for years, quit trying to be blind to it, the whole world sees it, and it will keep happening as long as there is money in the middle east that the US government wants.

I'm not sure where in the Mid east you lived, though 6 months sounds like you're a soldier, the fact that people go into a specific area and kill the indigenous people doesn't mean they know these people. I lived In Beirut, Lebanon. I was there before and after Israel's bombing, I have friends in Iraq serving in the army, marines, airforce, and navy, I'm not anti US, I support bringing our troops home because I'm tired of bloodshed. If I have not made sense to you or you do not understand what i'm talking about you need to smoke a bowl, relax, stop thinkin bush is great, and watch al jazeera in english about what's happening in the arab world, then compare it to the US news media, fox, cnn, msnbc....etc then read an unbiased news report, it's all propaganda, and when you base your "facts" on propaganda and hear-say, you get the end result of bullshit, trust that i know what I'm talking about, you can't budge me on this topic, it's like fighting a brick wall.

and again back to the original topic of brainwashing, if you are indeed a soldier then you must know all about brainwashing, because of all nations number one for brainwashing people is the US military, they break you down completely in bootcamp, ad re-mold you to who they want you to be, suicides of service men are up, alcoholism, drug usage....again the list goes on. women in the muslim world are not treated as slaves...the taliban was the only group that tried to use religion to justify that, in most mid east countries there are women who dress as western women do, even in Iraq women hold Jobs, and are voices of the people, even leaders, how many high ranking women are in the US military? how many women are in the US armed services in Iraq in actual combat, not just support teams? These are real questions. Islam is not about killing non-believers, nor about enslaving women, these extremists were created by the US, don't forget that, we gave the craziest group of people who were the enemy of our enemy, weapons and tactics, they thought we'd leave their territory when they scared off the russians, but we didn't they asked and asked then took force, the US is responsible for OSama Bin Laden, the taliban, and ultimately al quada, so easily people forget these facts and just find an easier target of a religion.

do some research and get back to me-
 

iblazethatkush

Well-Known Member
No one is going to set up a base in their holy land. Where are you getting this info? You're making assumptions that aren't even based on prior history and if they are give me the dates and facts.
Hate to break it to you. But Bush is having an embassy built in Baghdad that will open in September. It' going to be bigger than the Vatican in Rome, cost $600 million and will cost $1.2 billion yearly. They've already set up base in Iraq, we won't be leaving for a long, long time.
 

Chrisuperfly

Well-Known Member
Hate to break it to you. But Bush is having an embassy built in Baghdad that will open in September. It' going to be bigger than the Vatican in Rome, cost $600 million and will cost $1.2 billion yearly. They've already set up base in Iraq, we won't be leaving for a long, long time.

Don't we have an embassy in every country? Or 99% at least? I think the bases that most people are referring to are not fixed emplacements and are there for the duration of the war. And will dissapear after the war is over. Its not SOP to build a fixed base in a hostile country.
 

medicineman

New Member
Don't we have an embassy in every country? Or 99% at least? I think the bases that most people are referring to are not fixed emplacements and are there for the duration of the war. And will dissapear after the war is over. Its not SOP to build a fixed base in a hostile country.
I don't know about that, Germany, Korea, Japan all have bases in them, I think Iraq will have Bases for sure, we now also have bases in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Turkey I believe, All muslim countries.
 

Chrisuperfly

Well-Known Member
I don't know about that, Germany, Korea, Japan all have bases in them, I think Iraq will have Bases for sure, we now also have bases in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Turkey I believe, All muslim countries.
Germany, Korea, and Japan (And Japan is slowly going away because our lease with Japan has expired or is going to expire. I know Okinawa is on its way out, there were talks of moving it to Australia, not sure how that panned out.) are different stories.

I know that Incerlik (Turkey) has been there for a long time.

Most of the places where we have troops in Kuwait (Al-Jaber, Ali-al-Saleem, etc.) are basically tent-city type places. They are all temporary. Those bases are being used by other countries as well, the British for one. Same thing goes for Saudi Arabia.

I don't see us building any permanent bases where the risk factor is too high outside the front gate.
 

dankie

Well-Known Member
Don't we have an embassy in every country? Or 99% at least? I think the bases that most people are referring to are not fixed emplacements and are there for the duration of the war. And will dissapear after the war is over. Its not SOP to build a fixed base in a hostile country.
We have 14 bases being built in Iraq currently. Not temporary bases. Full scale bases with permanent buildings.



More news stories on the "enduring bases" in Iraq
US bases in Iraq: sticky politics, hard math | csmonitor.com
Extended U.S. presence in Iraq? - Conflict in Iraq - MSNBC.com
 

Stormfront

Well-Known Member
well....the evidence is really starting to stack up, guess I do know something I'm talking about....

about the bases in Iraq I believe they were referred to as "Enduring Bases"(....maybe a play on Enduring Freedom, though i don't really see oppressive military strength highlighted by full scale bases, in foreign territory...as very free-like....)

but don't worry, we're not an Occupation force, were merely keeping the peace, by pro actively attacking countries that can't really fight back.

I suppose we in the US are all turning out to be the evil hunter clubbing baby seals, by eye of the world, and I can't blame anyone as a single person, though the government in it's completeness bears full blame as far as im concerned. I know we need governments- I'm far from an anarchist, however our country needs to reform and completely change it's appearance to the rest of the world, maybe start by actually helping others, instead of helping ourselves-
 

Microdizzey

Well-Known Member

Nice watch. :roll:

Hopefully this idea will work. Sounds like a good plan, though these people are pretty strong in their beliefs.
 
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