Does it matter which plant I use for the parents when breeding?

I want to make a new cross between a few strains but I don’t know how to go about it and I want the best possible result! Does it matter which plant I use as the mother or father? For instance if I cross my c99 male to my black widow female would it make a difference if I crossed a black widow male to a c99 female. Also any tips on the best way to make a 3 way cross and the selection process of breeder males anything helps thanks!

Here’s a good old link. But to answer your question yes it sure does matter.

Peanutboy105 said:

I want to make a new cross between a few strains but I don’t know how to go about it and I want the best possible result! Does it matter which plant I use as the mother or father? For instance if I cross my c99 male to my black widow female would it make a difference if I crossed a black widow male to a c99 female. Also any tips on the best way to make a 3 way cross and the selection process of breeder males anything helps thanks!

Click to expand...

They make the exact same possibilities. Simple genetics. WWxC99 is the exact same thing as C99xWW, outside of the fact the mother/father are different. The idea that strain A should be mom vs dad is bro science. In the end, the genes do not go together in a different way based upon who is mom vs dad.

BLUEBERRY

No...just ask the plant which sex it identifies with and roll with that... mmmmmk

It's 2020 did you just assume the plants gender???

Dryxi said:

They make the exact same possibilities. Simple genetics. WWxC99 is the exact same thing as C99xWW, outside of the fact the mother/father are different. The idea that strain A should be mom vs dad is bro science. In the end, the genes do not go together in a different way based upon who is mom vs dad.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily!

Potency is carried over more so by the father..... At least it has been mine and others experience too.
Hunting out that one, stand out pheno..... Then crossing with a high quality, proven father.. Produces better potency ratio's in the offspring..

This is how strains can lose the "original" quality... Breeders keep that killer mom but, lose that "proper" father...

Dr. Who said:

Not necessarily!

Potency is carried over more so by the father..... At least it has been mine and others experience too.
Hunting out that one, stand out pheno..... Then crossing with a high quality, proven father.. Produces better potency ratio's in the offspring..

This is how strains can lose the "original" quality... Breeders keep that killer mom but, lose that "proper" father...

Click to expand...

I feel eugenics wise, that would make it a sex linked trait and I am not very sure that is true. I think it just comes back to the fact some plants have more dominant traits compared to others, but not necessarily sex related. I know some people breed complete lines without using males and are able to raise the potency of their strains without ever using a male plant. Also, to say that males carry over more potency would place potency on the Y chromosome, but we know not all males are more potent than females. Some are good, some are bad.

Not saying males are bad mind you, just I think noone can scientifically say that males carry over potency better. Otherwise it would be logical that if I cross 2 clones (females), one with a male and one a female of a more potent strain, the male cross would be more potent. I've just never seen data that says that, doesnt mean it isnt possible.

Tldr; a lot of typing without me definitively saying a thing ;p

Is breeding even achievable in small environments say 4x8 or 5x5? The only way I can see this is multiple tent setup which would cost a lot of money and space. I’m still new to growing but want to get my feet wet in breeding as soon as possible! I got my first pack of black widow by mr. nice I also got 1 pack of Dutch passion Mazar and brothers Grimm C99 would my best bet to be to find the best mothers and fathers out of these and then to cross them accordingly?

I can’t answer your question really but you may want to consider reversing females to get your pollen. It is much faster to select a good female because you can smoke it as your test. With regular genetics you must prove the males worthiness buy growing out his daughters. That takes time and space.
But you can certainly make seeds in a small area. Lots of times buy accident.

Nspecta talks about some interesting stuff in this podcast about breeding.

Dryxi said:

I feel eugenics wise, that would make it a sex linked trait and I am not very sure that is true. I think it just comes back to the fact some plants have more dominant traits compared to others, but not necessarily sex related. I know some people breed complete lines without using males and are able to raise the potency of their strains without ever using a male plant. Also, to say that males carry over more potency would place potency on the Y chromosome, but we know not all males are more potent than females. Some are good, some are bad.

Not saying males are bad mind you, just I think noone can scientifically say that males carry over potency better. Otherwise it would be logical that if I cross 2 clones (females), one with a male and one a female of a more potent strain, the male cross would be more potent. I've just never seen data that says that, doesnt mean it isnt possible.

Tldr; a lot of typing without me definitively saying a thing ;p

Click to expand...

You should look up the term "EUGENICS" This is a very old and misguided idea. Eugenics was debunked decades ago.

I fully stand by my statement - 100%!

Males carry over potency more then females.....

I've always found that males are much more stinky than females before flowering. I also believe that a stud male is just as if not more important than a foxy lady when it comes to breeding. Kind of like the way a prized stallion commands top dollar for stud services.

The whole "males carry potency/vigor/whatever" is just more broscience that is being promulgated especially now that the "fems = hermies" meme is losing its power. Not a shred of evidence, nobody has even attempted a controlled experiment, no plausible mechanism, just "my bro says so and he breeds fire."

Thanks bros for your pseudoscience. Adding "in my experience" doesn't help. That's the whole reason why we have science, because experience generally ain't worth shit.

Normally I shouldn't care if people spread bullshit or if gullible types believe them but the mythology surrounding feminized seeds spread by ignorant growers is believed by enough people that buy and make seeds that it actually impacts the seed market.

If you want to make good seeds use your best females. Selection is everything when breeding and there is no comparison to being able to directly observe the female flower traits carried by both parents. With males you can't so everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, just rubs stems and looks for trichs on a vigorous plant. Never have I heard of anyone comparing the progeny of different males to make their selection. That takes too much time and effort so everyone making reg seeds is basically chucking random pollen.

Breeding is actually a science. Sure anyone can put some male pollen on a female plant. I guess that counts to some. You get seeds and can grow them.

But breeding for stability takes time and effort. Selecting the best parent stock is very important. Breeding two stable or worked lines to each other is the true definition of f1 and they should come out very uniformed. Making f2's is where the pheno hunting really begins. Breeding two poly hybrids to each other will result in a variety of phenotypes. Some people want seeds to grow, buds to smoke, and will be happy. Others want the best, and that's where it takes skill.

Also, the main point of breeding should be to better the breed. Dominant, recessive genes will react differently to different parent stock depending on how homogenous the plant is.

Lately I have been seeing fire with fem breedings. Especially plants of similar genes back to each other. They are producing close to themselves with a little bit of hunting.

Every good breeder will tell you there is no replacement for a great male. More work goes into sifting good males also.

Dr. Who said:

You should look up the term "EUGENICS" This is a very old and misguided idea. Eugenics was debunked decades ago.

I fully stand by my statement - 100%!

Males carry over potency more then females.....

Click to expand...

Change the word to genetics in general and the points still stand. To genetically say males transfer potency greater means their chromosome have something different and better. In that case MALES would show the potency and females would not. The X and Y do not recombine much, in genetics I'll say.

Dryxi said:

Change the word to genetics in general and the points still stand. To genetically say males transfer potency greater means their chromosome have something different and better. In that case MALES would show the potency and females would not. The X and Y do not recombine much, in genetics I'll say.

Click to expand...

editing this late but to avoid confusion. That last post was high asf lol. Can't delete it tho.

It is hard to say males transfer potency better than females because potency is not linked to one chromosome (males Y). If you breed a male (XY) to a female (XX), you are still looking for the (XX) females. Because you are picking the females from those (XX), who do not have the Y chromosome, it is safe to say the end result is still in the X chromosome that the male is passing over. How the genes recombine is not different between XX recombining and XY recombining.

In female to female breeding, you are still ending up with XX females, just the only possibility was that no Y was used.

Dryxi said:

editing this late but to avoid confusion. That last post was high asf lol. Can't delete it tho.

It is hard to say males transfer potency better than females because potency is not linked to one chromosome (males Y). If you breed a male (XY) to a female (XX), you are still looking for the (XX) females. Because you are picking the females from those (XX), who do not have the Y chromosome, it is safe to say the end result is still in the X chromosome that the male is passing over. How the genes recombine is not different between XX recombining and XY recombining.

In female to female breeding, you are still ending up with XX females, just the only possibility was that no Y was used.

Click to expand...

Over the years you come to notice that Mother nature does not follow the science script all the time.

Not to mention that there is NO 100% female results from selfing!

A male will pop up at the rate of about 1:3000
It's happened to me twice now...
Twins are about half that ratio.

With all that said. "I still find better potency carry over from males.."

Dr. Who said:

Over the years you come to notice that Mother nature does not follow the science script all the time.

Not to mention that there is NO 100% female results from selfing!

A male will pop up at the rate of about 1:3000
It's happened to me twice now...
Twins are about half that ratio.

With all that said. "I still find better potency carry over from males.."

Click to expand...

Agree to disagree. All is well.

Do you know why that happens about selfing not being 100% female. Not discrediting but wondering why, I would've thought that it would be impossible to find a male in self'd or feminized seed, unless a stray male pollen got in there. Only reason I say is from what I was saying above, regarding males needing that Y chromosome, and females not possessing it.

Dryxi said:

Do you know why that happens about selfing not being 100% female. Not discrediting but wondering why, I would've thought that it would be impossible to find a male in self'd or feminized seed, unless a stray male pollen got in there. Only reason I say is from what I was saying above, regarding males needing that Y chromosome, and females not possessing it.

Click to expand...

Without genetic testing you can't say if it was male or female, selfed or contaminated and none of these would-be Mendels bother to do so. Could be XX expressing male flowers, could be contamination, nobody knows. Doesn't stop them from making bullshit claims though.