Does this look like Cal/Mag Defficiency?

sunny747

sunny747

Well-Known Member
Critical Cure CBD strain. (photo)
First week of flower
Roots organic with dolomite supplemented at planting
Flora nova nutes been using 1/2 strength. Last week used 1/4 tsp veg and 1/4 tsp bloom.
150 w hps + 100 w 6500k cfl
Current light schedule 12/12
Used 2% Take Down pest solution last week to deal with gnats.
Filtered tap water at 6.5 ph
Discoloration only appears on lower leaves. Leaves feel a bit crunchy also.

img 3.jpg img 2.jpg img1.jpg
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
pH of the run off will only give the pH of the run off! Soil self pH's and the soil will rise in pH after a watering and then swing back down as it drys back out.
Add the Cal/Mag and drop the bloom nute now until the beginning of the 4th week and then switch to only the bloom nutes. Up the % of nutes to 75% for a feeding EVERY OTHER WATERING and then to 100% the next, again every other watering and continue on.
 
Smokebomb420

Smokebomb420

Well-Known Member
Checking a few feeding schedules from GH and for the drain to waste schedules looks like your going to want to put floramicro nutrients every time you water.
Also 1/4 tsp of veg is 1.75ml for first week of flower the schedule calls for 4ml veg, 4ml cal mag, 4ml bloom among other things.

Also your plant is very big so going easy on the nutes is gonna potentially lessen your yield.
Here is the link to the feeding schedule drain to waste for soil,soiless, coco or hydroponics.
http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/feeding_sched/GH-FloraSeries-DTW-Charts.pdf
 
sunny747

sunny747

Well-Known Member
Smokebomb420 said:
Checking a few feeding schedules from GH and for the drain to waste schedules looks like your going to want to put floramicro nutrients every time you water.
Also 1/4 tsp of veg is 1.75ml for first week of flower the schedule calls for 4ml veg, 4ml cal mag, 4ml bloom among other things.

Also your plant is very big so going easy on the nutes is gonna potentially lessen your yield.
Here is the link to the feeding schedule drain to waste for soil,soiless, coco or hydroponics.
http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/feeding_sched/GH-FloraSeries-DTW-Charts.pdf
Click to expand...
I was confused about this at first with the different GH lines. I am using Flora Nova which is 2 part. The "Flora Series" is 3 part which includes a bottle of Micros. The Nova just has 2 bottles. I bought GH Organic Cal Mag and watered with it. I guess that maybe certain plants just need more Cal/Mag than the Nova offers. I guess that tomorrow I'll go 3/4 Bloom nutes since it's feeding day. I'm a little nervous though :)
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
sunny747 said:
I was confused about this at first with the different GH lines. I am using Flora Nova which is 2 part. The "Flora Series" is 3 part which includes a bottle of Micros. The Nova just has 2 bottles. I bought GH Organic Cal Mag and watered with it. I guess that maybe certain plants just need more Cal/Mag than the Nova offers. I guess that tomorrow I'll go 3/4 Bloom nutes since it's feeding day. I'm a little nervous though :)
Click to expand...
Glad you caught that...
Don't be nervous,,,,,it'll be fine as long as you alternate with water, then feed, then water, then fed, etc,etc. As the 100% hits it's into flower enough to use that ratio comfortably.
The Nova line is a Kelp based nutrient.....works well.....Very dirty in hydro.....Most likely why it was not used more by hydro folks.
Be SURE you shake the crap out of it before you use it!

You have me curious enough to see if GH will come off of a quart of each for me to soil test it in my combo grows......I like kelp based products!
 
Spliffer1

Spliffer1

Well-Known Member
sunny747 said:
I was confused about this at first with the different GH lines. I am using Flora Nova which is 2 part. The "Flora Series" is 3 part which includes a bottle of Micros. The Nova just has 2 bottles. I bought GH Organic Cal Mag and watered with it. I guess that maybe certain plants just need more Cal/Mag than the Nova offers. I guess that tomorrow I'll go 3/4 Bloom nutes since it's feeding day. I'm a little nervous though :)
Click to expand...
Sunny, may I butt into your thread, and ask the Dr. a question? I believe I may have something similar going on.
 
Spliffer1

Spliffer1

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Glad you caught that...
Don't be nervous,,,,,it'll be fine as long as you alternate with water, then feed, then water, then fed, etc,etc. As the 100% hits it's into flower enough to use that ratio comfortably.
The Nova line is a Kelp based nutrient.....works well.....Very dirty in hydro.....Most likely why it was not used more by hydro folks.
Be SURE you shake the crap out of it before you use it!

You have me curious enough to see if GH will come off of a quart of each for me to soil test it in my combo grows......I like kelp based products!
Click to expand...
Thanks, Sunny, for allowing me to cut in

Dr Who
This is my my set-up
Pineapple Trainwreck from clone (1st time running this strain)
FF OF
10% perlite added
1 cup dolomite flour per cubic foot (dry)
RO water
DG Bloom
DG cal mag
Hygrozyme
400w hps @ aprox 16"
1.5 gal pots
temps are 72-79
rh between 48-55%
4 weeks 3 days in
Scenerio: Settled clones in under hps @ 12/12- ZOOM, they took off. Watered only 1st 2 weeks, using hygrozyme every other water. Some discoloration on a couple (literaly, only a couple, out of 6 plants) random, older fan leaves appeared early in the 3rd week, around the same time I gave them the first feed @ 1/2 strength. Almost appeared as if I may have got a little solution dripped on, and I didn't think a whole lot about it. as a few more days passed and I started noticing them on a few more leaves, beginning more on the interiors or the leaves, instead of from the outside. It wasn't the usual (or what I'm used to seeing) stippling, or discolorations/dots, that would be classic sign of cal/mag def.
3 days ago, I posted the same @
https://www.rollitup.org/t/whats-going-on-with-my-fan-leaves.828368/#post-10494804
Buds replied he believed it salt burn, because there was too much stuff added to FF OF soil.
I don't buy it. When I first planted, they LOVED it then. And one of the clones I received went to my mother cabinet and doing great.
Discoloration and pattern lead me to think that it's P def., but I'm afraid of torching them "trying" to correct it.
Stems are all still green, no red, but lower branch(s) are getting soft, weak, and a bit droopy. May well be that I'll loose these before they finish, but I'd like to know what I'm muckin' up here, so I don't do it on the next go around.
I flushed the shit out of them today with 4-5 gal each with my well water, which is around 210 ppm, ph @ 6.5, then followed a 1/3 strength feed.
What gives?
 

Attachments

Smokebomb420

Smokebomb420

Well-Known Member
Spliffer1 said:
Thanks, Sunny, for allowing me to cut in

Dr Who
This is my my set-up
Pineapple Trainwreck from clone (1st time running this strain)
FF OF
10% perlite added
1 cup dolomite flour per cubic foot (dry)
RO water
DG Bloom
DG cal mag
Hygrozyme
400w hps @ aprox 16"
1.5 gal pots
temps are 72-79
rh between 48-55%
4 weeks 3 days in
Scenerio: Settled clones in under hps @ 12/12- ZOOM, they took off. Watered only 1st 2 weeks, using hygrozyme every other water. Some discoloration on a couple (literaly, only a couple, out of 6 plants) random, older fan leaves appeared early in the 3rd week, around the same time I gave them the first feed @ 1/2 strength. Almost appeared as if I may have got a little solution dripped on, and I didn't think a whole lot about it. as a few more days passed and I started noticing them on a few more leaves, beginning more on the interiors or the leaves, instead of from the outside. It wasn't the usual (or what I'm used to seeing) stippling, or discolorations/dots, that would be classic sign of cal/mag def.
3 days ago, I posted the same @
https://www.rollitup.org/t/whats-going-on-with-my-fan-leaves.828368/#post-10494804
Buds replied he believed it salt burn, because there was too much stuff added to FF OF soil.
I don't buy it. When I first planted, they LOVED it then. And one of the clones I received went to my mother cabinet and doing great.
Discoloration and pattern lead me to think that it's P def., but I'm afraid of torching them "trying" to correct it.
Stems are all still green, no red, but lower branch(s) are getting soft, weak, and a bit droopy. May well be that I'll loose these before they finish, but I'd like to know what I'm muckin' up here, so I don't do it on the next go around.
I flushed the shit out of them today with 4-5 gal each with my well water, which is around 210 ppm, ph @ 6.5, then followed a 1/3 strength feed.
What gives?
Click to expand...
Bro I hope you check this quick.
6.5 is kind of high for a soil grow, but because you added vermiculite you completely changed the formula to something else.
First Adding 10% will make your soil more airated which will increase oxygen to the roots(which is great, also a tip add 1/4cup hydrogen peroxide to gal for extra growth on top of your regular str nutes)
second, that makes your soil 10% less nutritious.
Third it will make it closer to hydro so it means lower PH then normal is fine and can actually help.

Ok now that is said here are my corrections.
Your pictures are shit I can't see shit in them except for the first one.
What is see is that NO it is not a P def, nor a K def, or N def.
N Def- Bottom up yellow starting on the first on the bottom leaves as not corrected will spread upwards.
P Def- Anytime there is a purple color appearing on the higher leaves usually new shoots.
K Def- Yellow starting from the edge of the leaves working towards the center of the leaves/plant killing the leaves as it spreads.

You have What looks like a calcium magnesium deficiency which is necessary to correct using micro nutrients or a cal-mag supplement.

Sometimes when the PH is off the plant has trouble absorbing nutrients but in this case it looks like you just need a supplement and to start feeding ful str cal mag until your problem improves.
 
Last edited:
Smokebomb420

Smokebomb420

Well-Known Member
sunny747 said:
I was confused about this at first with the different GH lines. I am using Flora Nova which is 2 part. The "Flora Series" is 3 part which includes a bottle of Micros. The Nova just has 2 bottles. I bought GH Organic Cal Mag and watered with it. I guess that maybe certain plants just need more Cal/Mag than the Nova offers. I guess that tomorrow I'll go 3/4 Bloom nutes since it's feeding day. I'm a little nervous though :)
Click to expand...
Sorry about that, here is the right schedule.
http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/feeding_sched/GH-FloraNova-DTW-Charts.pdf
So it looks like your right, it is a two part.
Using the GO cal-mag should work, its actually the one I have :).
That one actually requires 5ml per gal + your base nutrients.

Usually all the nutes are separate so there is no chemical complications(also never mix nutes in without water, put water in the bucket first and mix after each additive) and also so you can have each one at different strengths.
 
Last edited:
Spliffer1

Spliffer1

Well-Known Member
Smokebomb420 said:
Bro I hope you check this quick.
6.5 is kind of high for a soil grow, but because you added vermiculite you completely changed the formula to something else.
First Adding 10% will make your soil more airated which will increase oxygen to the roots(which is great, also a tip add 1/4cup hydrogen peroxide to gal for extra growth on top of your regular str nutes)
second, that makes your soil 10% less nutritious.
Third it will make it closer to hydro so it means lower PH then normal is fine and can actually help.

Ok now that is said here are my corrections.
Your pictures are shit I can't see shit in them except for the first one.
What is see is that NO it is not a P def, nor a K def, or N def.
N Def- Bottom up yellow starting on the first on the bottom leaves as not corrected will spread upwards.
P Def- Anytime there is a purple color appearing on the higher leaves usually new shoots.
K Def- Yellow starting from the edge of the leaves working towards the center of the leaves/plant killing the leaves as it spreads.

You have What looks like a calcium magnesium deficiency which is necessary to correct using micro nutrients or a cal-mag supplement.
Click to expand...
THANK YOU!
Sorry about the pic quality. I knew I had to get pics fast and get them posted. And the HPS lighting, of course, would just mask some of the color/contrast.
Cal/mag was actually my first guess, but it didn't appear quite as any other cal/mag problem I have dealt with before (not a pro, but not a noobie, either). And I hate guessing at this.
Never had one go this deficient, this fast, while I'm feeding and supplementing it.
I follow your logic on the soil/perlite mix, and the ph differential you explained made perfect sense, though I've not yet noticed any issues that could cause. I've actually had more experience with indoor hydro than with indoor soil, and I see where lock-out could happen very easily. I absolutely will take that into consideration when feeding, and see if/how much difference it makes.
Having played in hydro for a while, I'm very hesitant to start using h2o2, knowing what it does to benies and other micro-oranisms. Only as a last resort for root rot/problems/slime, etc., will I use it. I know it oxygenates the hell out of the water, and they love that added oxygen. Great cleaner, too.
I hope I can save them enough to finish, but, I'll know better the next run!
Thanks for your time!
 
Smokebomb420

Smokebomb420

Well-Known Member
Spliffer1 said:
THANK YOU!
Sorry about the pic quality. I knew I had to get pics fast and get them posted. And the HPS lighting, of course, would just mask some of the color/contrast.
Cal/mag was actually my first guess, but it didn't appear quite as any other cal/mag problem I have dealt with before (not a pro, but not a noobie, either). And I hate guessing at this.
Never had one go this deficient, this fast, while I'm feeding and supplementing it.
I follow your logic on the soil/perlite mix, and the ph differential you explained made perfect sense, though I've not yet noticed any issues that could cause. I've actually had more experience with indoor hydro than with indoor soil, and I see where lock-out could happen very easily. I absolutely will take that into consideration when feeding, and see if/how much difference it makes.
Having played in hydro for a while, I'm very hesitant to start using h2o2, knowing what it does to benies and other micro-oranisms. Only as a last resort for root rot/problems/slime, etc., will I use it. I know it oxygenates the hell out of the water, and they love that added oxygen. Great cleaner, too.
I hope I can save them enough to finish, but, I'll know better the next run!
Thanks for your time!
Click to expand...
Np, prob just a calmag def not too much showing multiple nutrient lock out so your PH is prob fine, but you can never be careful when adding extra nutrients in.
Happy growing.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Spliffer1 said:
Thanks, Sunny, for allowing me to cut in

Dr Who
This is my my set-up
Pineapple Trainwreck from clone (1st time running this strain)
FF OF
10% perlite added
1 cup dolomite flour per cubic foot (dry)
RO water
DG Bloom
DG cal mag
Hygrozyme
400w hps @ aprox 16"
1.5 gal pots
temps are 72-79
rh between 48-55%
4 weeks 3 days in
Scenerio: Settled clones in under hps @ 12/12- ZOOM, they took off. Watered only 1st 2 weeks, using hygrozyme every other water. Some discoloration on a couple (literaly, only a couple, out of 6 plants) random, older fan leaves appeared early in the 3rd week, around the same time I gave them the first feed @ 1/2 strength. Almost appeared as if I may have got a little solution dripped on, and I didn't think a whole lot about it. as a few more days passed and I started noticing them on a few more leaves, beginning more on the interiors or the leaves, instead of from the outside. It wasn't the usual (or what I'm used to seeing) stippling, or discolorations/dots, that would be classic sign of cal/mag def.
3 days ago, I posted the same @
https://www.rollitup.org/t/whats-going-on-with-my-fan-leaves.828368/#post-10494804
Buds replied he believed it salt burn, because there was too much stuff added to FF OF soil.
I don't buy it. When I first planted, they LOVED it then. And one of the clones I received went to my mother cabinet and doing great.
Discoloration and pattern lead me to think that it's P def., but I'm afraid of torching them "trying" to correct it.
Stems are all still green, no red, but lower branch(s) are getting soft, weak, and a bit droopy. May well be that I'll loose these before they finish, but I'd like to know what I'm muckin' up here, so I don't do it on the next go around.
I flushed the shit out of them today with 4-5 gal each with my well water, which is around 210 ppm, ph @ 6.5, then followed a 1/3 strength feed.
What gives?
Click to expand...
Yup classic Ca def!!!! Run your Cal/Mag at every watering! Next time when you mix the soil,,,,try a "chunkier" Dolomite as My guess would be that it may have lost it's effectiveness in that small a pot quickly...Buds was way off.....

1 More thing...well ,, maybe 2, ok 3.
First....6.5 is spot on for soil pH!!!! Do not change that.....Soil self pH's and your using a zyme so that helps Ph swings be more stable....The thing is that when you water soil the pH rises and as it drys back out it falls back......

I do not understand at all what Smoke is talking about with the Vermiculite....you didn't add any.....I think he wanted to say perlite. He is right that you added it for better O2 introduction to the roots....this did not screw with the pH. I would not add H2O2 to my soil as your only giving the living bios in the soil a REAL hard time!

The "hot" FFOF and the plant/pot size is why your using a low nutrient ratio and it's working! Don't change that till week 6 and then maybe go up to 75% till finish....

Aw hell,,,4 things! No 5....6?

Next grow at the start of nutrient use. Add a Silica supplement! I would say DynaGro's Pro-Tekt at 0-0-3 is the one.
Don't worry about the 3 points of K......The silica will help regulate the uptake of P and buffers the added K and does many other good things!!!!

I do NOT think your pics suck!

And lastly.....for how your growing and for how big (small) your growing....If you feel at any time your not "feeding" enough or that they have a def. of Macro nutrients...Use a Fulvic acid and/or a strong Humic acid in your solution as those will increase the "uptake" of the nutrients you are using and increase the effectiveness of them by as much as 50% (50% would be using both at 1 time)

Sea Green is simply fabulous at this....I would add at a rate of 1/3 to 1/2 ml per gallon for your needs.
Other wise any Kelp based supplement can help in this area, but I would still add a humic to that and increase the Zyme use by increasing the times you use it. Not by how much you add. Because Kelp can impede the Living bio's by up to 35%.

Keep in mind that the effected leaves will not show any recovery....Only that the problem stops spreading/advancing...Any correction in soil takes 5-7 days to show......

Damn, that was 7 wasn't it?

Looking good otherwise kitty!
 
Spliffer1

Spliffer1

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Yup classic Ca def!!!! Run your Cal/Mag at every watering! Next time when you mix the soil,,,,try a "chunkier" Dolomite as My guess would be that it may have lost it's effectiveness in that small a pot quickly...Buds was way off.....

1 More thing...well ,, maybe 2, ok 3.
First....6.5 is spot on for soil pH!!!! Do not change that.....Soil self pH's and your using a zyme so that helps Ph swings be more stable....The thing is that when you water soil the pH rises and as it drys back out it falls back......

I do not understand at all what Smoke is talking about with the Vermiculite....you didn't add any.....I think he wanted to say perlite. He is right that you added it for better O2 introduction to the roots....this did not screw with the pH. I would not add H2O2 to my soil as your only giving the living bios in the soil a REAL hard time!

The "hot" FFOF and the plant/pot size is why your using a low nutrient ratio and it's working! Don't change that till week 6 and then maybe go up to 75% till finish....

Aw hell,,,4 things! No 5....6?

Next grow at the start of nutrient use. Add a Silica supplement! I would say DynaGro's Pro-Tekt at 0-0-3 is the one.
Don't worry about the 3 points of K......The silica will help regulate the uptake of P and buffers the added K and does many other good things!!!!

I do NOT think your pics suck!

And lastly.....for how your growing and for how big (small) your growing....If you feel at any time your not "feeding" enough or that they have a def. of Macro nutrients...Use a Fulvic acid and/or a strong Humic acid in your solution as those will increase the "uptake" of the nutrients you are using and increase the effectiveness of them by as much as 50% (50% would be using both at 1 time)

Sea Green is simply fabulous at this....I would add at a rate of 1/3 to 1/2 ml per gallon for your needs.
Other wise any Kelp based supplement can help in this area, but I would still add a humic to that and increase the Zyme use by increasing the times you use it. Not by how much you add. Because Kelp can impede the Living bio's by up to 35%.

Keep in mind that the effected leaves will not show any recovery....Only that the problem stops spreading/advancing...Any correction in soil takes 5-7 days to show......

Damn, that was 7 wasn't it?

Looking good otherwise kitty!
Click to expand...
Hey Doc- 7 things or 20, I APPRECIATE YOUR HELP!
Everything I've heard you say, on this and other posts, has been sound, easy to understand, and POLITE advice!
I believed my ph was in the ballpark, so wasn't too worried about that just yet. Soil ph, nute ph, runnoff ph, is all too stable to be an issue, though I do know that can change dramaticly under the right conditions. I keep a close eye on it.
As for h2o2, I won't be adding it anytime soon, I know what havock it can cause. But, there has been a couple of times it saved my ass in hydro grows.
I've got some Pro-Tek around here, somewhere. I used it some when I grew outdoors, to help protect against heat stress. I'll add that to my regimine and see how well it works on indoor. Didn't know that it would help facilitate uptake. I've always been hesitant about using it, because the words "plant nutrients" and "silicon", just don't sound like they should go together. lol
Sea Green, huh? I'll be looking it up as soon as I'm done here. I've heard of and read a little bit about fulvic and humic acids, but never realized how beneficial they could be. If I understand correctly, using one, or both of these will unlock unused nutes, thus increasing my nute uptake? By doing so, will it eliminate the need to feed light doses, as I'm doing now, or would I just be able to wait a bit longer into the grow before I needed to start adding? Or would it allow the plant to quickly suck up all of it's available resources faster?
Would they be used from the beginning, or just on an "as needed" basis.
I'll do some research on them and their use, I could use some more education, here.
I've tried to keep things as simple and basic as I can, but with each new grow, it seems that I encounter a new situation or problem that requires me to learn a new or different solution. Seems that most strains have their own little quirks and nuances that require thinking outside the box (or my box, anyways). A lot different than swag bagseeds.
The challenge is what drives me, though. That, and keeping around some killer herb!
THANKS!!!!!!
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Spliffer1 said:
Sea Green, huh? I'll be looking it up as soon as I'm done here. I've heard of and read a little bit about fulvic and humic acids, but never realized how beneficial they could be. If I understand correctly, using one, or both of these will unlock unused nutes, thus increasing my nute uptake? By doing so, will it eliminate the need to feed light doses, as I'm doing now, or would I just be able to wait a bit longer into the grow before I needed to start adding? Or would it allow the plant to quickly suck up all of it's available resources faster?
Would they be used from the beginning, or just on an "as needed" basis.
I'll do some research on them and their use, I could use some more education, here.
I've tried to keep things as simple and basic as I can, but with each new grow, it seems that I encounter a new situation or problem that requires me to learn a new or different solution. Seems that most strains have their own little quirks and nuances that require thinking outside the box (or my box, anyways). A lot different than swag bagseeds.
The challenge is what drives me, though. That, and keeping around some killer herb!
THANKS!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Refer to this thread for more info on Humic and Fulvic acids, with mentions of Sea Green.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/humic-acid-is-it-worth-it-what-does-it-do.828029/

"simple and basic" Yuppers,,,things have a way of change'n don't they....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top