Drugs and Religion

so lets here it. did the/a/some god or gods create herbal substances and why?

my thoughts are that the christian god created drugs like shrooms and cannabis for our consumption. cannabis is one of the 3 principle spices used in the making of holy annointing oil. in the old testement it was burned as a sacrafice. the lord was angered because the israelites had not sacraficed it in awhile. in the wilderness the lord gave moses and the other israelites shrooms. god commanded an israelite whose name escapes me to sell cannabis at the market.

No. But show proof of a god, and then proof of a god's involvement and I'd reconsider.

Cannabis is thought to have evolved in Kazakhstan, developing THC as part of the defenses that plants have often developed.

morgentaler said:

No. But show proof of a god, and then proof of a god's involvement and I'd reconsider.

Cannabis is thought to have evolved in Kazakhstan, developing THC as part of the defenses that plants have often developed.

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ya i heard it was cuz thc allows the plant 2 store more water.

there is no proof of a god. it just takes faith. if u dont believe in god thats ur choice, but i actualy feel srry 4 u.

morgentaler said:

No. But show proof of a god, and then proof of a god's involvement and I'd reconsider.

Cannabis is thought to have evolved in Kazakhstan, developing THC as part of the defenses that plants have often developed.

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i almost feel like i should +rep jus cuz of ur free marc pic.

You don't need to feel sorry for me. I prefer to live in a world where answers are found in tangibles, and not in substitutes for knowledge. Gods and mythologies are lazy explanations for the unknown. I just happen to find greater value in learning about something than settling for the explanation of someone who never looked for an answer.

Don't rep me for the Free Marc pic. Write to members of parliament instead

Assuming there is an intelligent agent or some form of designer, why would he come down to earth and set out a list of rules for us to follow, not animals, bacteria, disease? Why did he make a special book for the humans to live by, what is his goal? Is there a different book for every civilization on other planets? Or are we the only conscious civilization in the universe? Why are there dissenting points of view if there is one truth? Why is there so much that can be explained where the holy books claim divinity? There are an endless stream of questions that can be asked causing you to drop your jaw and reconsider your blind faith.

I think it was morgantaler on a different thread that said, just because you believe that a car won't swerve into your cars lane and hit you head on doesn't mean that it won't happen, it is just a reassurance that some need to have. The same with a GOD figure or an afterlife, it is just a lift raft to cling to, but it really doesn't matter because you are miles away from any land in the middle of a storm with waves crashing on top of you, and rain pelting your face, sooner or later you are going to have to let go. You have to just face the facts that religion in general is a way of explaining what couldn't be explained. As well many religions including Christianity are in majority astrological devices used for mapping the stars, and about moral control of the population. If you presented the idea of a GOD who punished the bad and gave the good a second life forever in heaven, people would jump all over that. The kind of disease and poverty that were very much prevalent in that day would have ignited an extreme fundamentalism from the word for word interpretation that is carried through the ages.

Quantum physic theory suggests that the universe began as an infinitely small point that was one entity, which then progressed to expand and divide itself into mainly light and energy, which were then divided into sub atomic particles, which then associated into an atomic structure and proceeded to condense as stars. These implications are profound, it details that when you believe something you somehow effect the experiment that you are observing, meaning that if most of a population believes something the dissenting thoughts on the argument are drowned out and cast aside. Not meaning the actual metaphysics of consciousness but just in a real world sense, I can't subscribe to the Quantum field theory or string theory yet, but have been experimenting with the revelation myself and have had very strong spiritual experiences in regards of being able to shape my experience. It also ties hand in hand with Eastern philosophy, so it is fairly easy to live by as most eastern philosophy is very minimalist, and the drug culture has taught me that with out so much as a sneeze. So with so many counter culture in absolute unison you may ask your self what is the true counter culture?

Peace

morgentaler said:

You don't need to feel sorry for me. I prefer to live in a world where answers are found in tangibles, and not in substitutes for knowledge. Gods and mythologies are lazy explanations for the unknown. I just happen to find greater value in learning about something than settling for the explanation of someone who never looked for an answer.

Don't rep me for the Free Marc pic. Write to members of parliament instead

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Jah could very well be real. its not a substitution for knowledge. who are you 2 put down other peoples beliefs? everyone deserves 2 practive their spiritual beliefs.

ive already written 2 ppl here on the american side.

Mr.KushMan said:

Assuming there is an intelligent agent or some form of designer, why would he come down to earth and set out a list of rules for us to follow, not animals, bacteria, disease? Why did he make a special book for the humans to live by, what is his goal? Is there a different book for every civilization on other planets? Or are we the only conscious civilization in the universe? Why are there dissenting points of view if there is one truth? Why is there so much that can be explained where the holy books claim divinity? There are an endless stream of questions that can be asked causing you to drop your jaw and reconsider your blind faith.

I think it was morgantaler on a different thread that said, just because you believe that a car won't swerve into your cars lane and hit you head on doesn't mean that it won't happen, it is just a reassurance that some need to have. The same with a GOD figure or an afterlife, it is just a lift raft to cling to, but it really doesn't matter because you are miles away from any land in the middle of a storm with waves crashing on top of you, and rain pelting your face, sooner or later you are going to have to let go. You have to just face the facts that religion in general is a way of explaining what couldn't be explained. As well many religions including Christianity are in majority astrological devices used for mapping the stars, and about moral control of the population. If you presented the idea of a GOD who punished the bad and gave the good a second life forever in heaven, people would jump all over that. The kind of disease and poverty that were very much prevalent in that day would have ignited an extreme fundamentalism from the word for word interpretation that is carried through the ages.

Quantum physic theory suggests that the universe began as an infinitely small point that was one entity, which then progressed to expand and divide itself into mainly light and energy, which were then divided into sub atomic particles, which then associated into an atomic structure and proceeded to condense as stars. These implications are profound, it details that when you believe something you somehow effect the experiment that you are observing, meaning that if most of a population believes something the dissenting thoughts on the argument are drowned out and cast aside. Not meaning the actual metaphysics of consciousness but just in a real world sense, I can't subscribe to the Quantum field theory or string theory yet, but have been experimenting with the revelation myself and have had very strong spiritual experiences in regards of being able to shape my experience. It also ties hand in hand with Eastern philosophy, so it is fairly easy to live by as most eastern philosophy is very minimalist, and the drug culture has taught me that with out so much as a sneeze. So with so many counter culture in absolute unison you may ask your self what is the true counter culture?

Peace

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the mayans are believed 2 be ETs. i believe that those ETs are the spiritual messengers of Jah. science has no proof of life. they only have theorys like the big bang. it cannot be proven. so because of this scientist have created their own religion. they just dont have superior beings. why is one faith any less creditable than any other? and god had scriptures made as a guide toward enlightenment. there not rules. but really guidelines of morality, but u can be saved without following them by accepting the almighty/ almightys.

quantum theory is a religion without deities.

i believe religion is right. but i believe that they all have flaws. no one religion is correct. in scripture it says in the end of time their will be only 1 religion. i believe this means all religions will be combined and reised in2 the truth. XD

Any time i've heard someone say they don't believe in God, or at least don't believe in the man-made image of God, they are immediately shot down by believers for "putting down their beliefs in God". To that I say don't put down other peoples non belief in god. People share personal beliefs and then scared people jump to "how dare you"s. I believe there is a higher being. God or creator, call it what you will. I don't know anything tho, and I wonder if God knows a whole lot more than we do? What if what some people refer to as God is just a macro version of us, just as clueless about it's existence as we are. What if we are just parasites in the body of God? The universe and everything we know to be in it from the entirety to quarks of an electron on an atom. Who is to say it stops there? What if our universe is just one body in a bigger, ever expanding sea of existence? Another shrimp in a bigger ocean. A number can be infinitesimally divided to be smaller and smaller, without every reaching zero, just smaller and smaller and smaller. So why does it not work the other way? What if the earth is just a cell in the galaxy, which is a just a microscopic cell compared to the universe, which is microscopic compared to ?? Does it end there? I mean our scope is so small. We only witness with our senses such a small spectrum of what exists even here on earth. Even if what we call our universe is the entirety of existence, we r still just as insignificant.

hubble telescope. This cluster of galaxies was unseen untill the telescope took a picture with the lense open for several days exposure. What was previously invisble or black in bewtween the space of visible stars. Just look at the stars next night, and where u see dark space in between, imagine all these GALAXIES behind that!!!!

I look at it like this...

Life's decisions are yours alone. Whether you believe in God, a higher being or only science, we all have to coexist. Whether we're right, you're right, there right... nobody knows.

Respect each other for their belief and move on. You can't force someone who doesn't want to believe you. On top of that, you still don't know.

As for the ones who downplay faith because they believe in tangible existence, take a second to think about it. If a scientist is trying to prove or disprove a theory, he has to have faith. Why else would he be performing the experiment?

blaznb said:

Jah could very well be real. its not a substitution for knowledge. who are you 2 put down other peoples beliefs? everyone deserves 2 practive their spiritual beliefs.

ive already written 2 ppl here on the american side.

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Religion and mythology ARE a substitute for knowledge. They were stories made up to explain the unknown.

There are certainly better gods in mythology than "Jah".

Practice whatever you want. Put it out in public and expect to be challenged.

If I say the Mariners are the best team ever, anyone else can dispute that. Your gods don't get any special exemptions.

drumbum3218 said:

and wasn't the bible (started) written 60 years after His death, and only completed 200 years after His death? Not to mention the large portion unexposed to man, the dead sea scrolls are still sitting in the popes vault somewhere probably below his library in the vatican. They will probably never be released. I would LOVE to get my hands on them. That aside, the english bible alone has numerous variations. The english bible is FAR from the 'original' bible. Numerous translations and 2000 years of copies to get it to what we know as the bible. Some things just don't translate/lost in translation. After being translated and translated over again how can people cling so tightly to its words? The word for angel and messenger are the same in Greek, also in german heaven and sky are the same. Our bible was translated from the german version and previously from the greek. With just one word in our bible could change the meaning or interpretation immensely. Instead of an "angel (with wings) came down from the heavens" What if it originally said some message was seen in the sky? I mean paeganism was widely accepted back at the time the book was written, so what if it referred more to the sun, not the Son. and why not give thanks to the sun? We'd b nothing without it.. Hell, the entire Christian religion is just mixture of old sun worshipping religions with an added dose of FEAR and a new label on it. If you do any research you will learn that much of the bible, christianity, and most all christian holidays, stem from paganism, like it or not. I do not doubt that Jesus existed. I believe he taught enlightenment, much like buddah was said to have. but I do doubt that his message/teachings have been convoluted and completely missed over the millenia, for 'benefit', wealth and power . . Just about everything in the bible as far as traditions was adopted from paganism. Do the research before you chastize me for blasphomy. Don't shoot me for sharing what I happen to believe, just look the other way. Please take it with a grain of salt or not at all

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the original bible was started on stone tablets over 6000 years ago. this is what i believe to be the true bible. when it was translated to the dead sea scrolls changes were made, and from there to the later versions of the bible it continued 2 change. around the time of christ and beyond certain additions were made. i believe that most parts of the word is true. but there are changes made because of corruption and the whole drug thing.

morgentaler said:

Religion and mythology ARE a substitute for knowledge. They were stories made up to explain the unknown.

There are certainly better gods in mythology than "Jah".

Practice whatever you want. Put it out in public and expect to be challenged.

If I say the Mariners are the best team ever, anyone else can dispute that. Your gods don't get any special exemptions.

Click to expand...

believe what you want. but according 2 scientists life came from what was once nothing. the belief in god 2 me seems more creditable than life coming from non-life.

FoxCompany426 said:

I look at it like this...

Life's decisions are yours alone. Whether you believe in God, a higher being or only science, we all have to coexist. Whether we're right, you're right, there right... nobody knows.

Respect each other for their belief and move on. You can't force someone who doesn't want to believe you. On top of that, you still don't know.

As for the ones who downplay faith because they believe in tangible existence, take a second to think about it. If a scientist is trying to prove or disprove a theory, he has to have faith. Why else would he be performing the experiment?

Click to expand...

Well if you were a scientist you would understand the scientific process. As an experimenter you are not trying to make something happen and then prove what it is, you observe something then ask the question why does it do this, then from there you would hypothesis and perform an experiment, if you don't get the right results, you try again or design a new experiment and rehypothesise, if you can reproduce the desired results and the math works then you present it and others can challenge your claims, as is constantly done. So they do not have faith, they are in fact skeptical of the results and doing everything they can to disprove themselves to save the social dignity. Because as scientist they understand that as far as we can tell everything in just chance.

I saw an interesting thing on the TV today on discovery. Apparently if a child sees a rock and it has broken edges and a rough top and you ask the child if the rock is like that because it was broken or do animals don't sit on it, they will if fact see it as a preexisting artifact of the rock, not that the rock is the result. Something to think about, was the world a result or was it preexisting as a creative concept. No way to tell but I know blind faith is not a moral compass, its more like a life raft floating on a current.

Peace

believe what you want. but according 2 scientists life came from what was once nothing. the belief in god 2 me seems more creditable than life coming from non-life.

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Might want to actually read up on that.
Life didn't come from "nothing". Life comes from the stable arrangement of molecules in increasingly complex configurations.

In the beginning there were base molecules.
And it was good.
Some molecules gained or lost electrons, changing state.
Some of these molecules bonded with other molecules. Some decayed, others persisted - acquiring additional changes in state and complexity over time.
Increased complexity over time lead to the formation of amino acids, which are the basis of life and needed in the formation of proteins.
And as I linked in another post, researchers have seen Uracil created in the lab by the exposure of a pyrimadine to ultraviolet light.
The building blocks of life forming in conditions available in nature.

And no burning bushes hovering about to claim credit.

So believe what you want, but I'll take science and the pursuit of knowledge over magical beings like Jah, Thor, Mercury, Shiva, etc. etc.

FoxCompany426 said:

I look at it like this...

Life's decisions are yours alone. Whether you believe in God, a higher being or only science, we all have to coexist. Whether we're right, you're right, there right... nobody knows.

Respect each other for their belief and move on. You can't force someone who doesn't want to believe you. On top of that, you still don't know.

As for the ones who downplay faith because they believe in tangible existence, take a second to think about it. If a scientist is trying to prove or disprove a theory, he has to have faith. Why else would he be performing the experiment?

Click to expand...

Well if you were a scientist you would understand the scientific process. As an experimenter you are not trying to make something happen and then prove what it is, you observe something then ask the question why does it do this, then from there you would hypothesis and perform an experiment, if you don't get the right results, you try again or design a new experiment and rehypothesise, if you can reproduce the desired results and the math works then you present it and others can challenge your claims, as is constantly done. Gallaleio theorized on gravity, then Einstein revised and improved as did Ed Witten with string theory. So they do not have faith, they are in fact skeptical of the results and doing everything they can to disprove themselves to save the social dignity. Because as scientist they understand that as far as we can tell everything is just chance.

I saw an interesting thing on the TV today on discovery. Apparently if a child sees a rock and it has broken edges and a rough top and you ask the child if the rock is like that because it was broken or so animals don't sit on it, they will if fact see it as a preexisting artifact of the rock, not that the rock is the result. Something to think about, was the world a result or was it preexisting as a creative concept. No way to tell but I know blind faith is not a moral compass, its more like a life raft floating on a current.

And for your information god, or a creator, or a intelligent agent and science are not in exclusive clubs that can't coexist. Maybe GOD created the universe as a way to define itself, and we a result of the BIG BANG. What I do know is, the designer if does exist could not be a god that made the Earth in six days, no time scale would exist for that to be monitored. It didn't make a list of rules that if we don't follow has us enter a fire pit with a lava river with demons and torture for eternity, it doesn't make sense. It most certainly never had a flesh and blood child that walked the earth, although some would claim it. These are all stories for mythology, astrology, history and social control. Even the vatican has pronounced that the Bible should not be read as the word for word interpretation and in fact just a loose moral fairy tales. Even they can admit when they are wrong but people are so tied up in their ideas that they can't let go. It says something when someone is selling something but won't or are prohibited from using it themselves.

I appreciate where you are coming from and I do think that everyone has a way to cope with their problems be it clinging to a life raft or swimming in the opposite directing and stealing their rafts away, but to give blind faith in something is waste of life. Me personally when I accept something just because it is something I cannot ponder, which is what I love to do. The time I spend in the moment pondering the workings of the universe, I feel like time stops. I don't have a care, I only have a life to look ahead to.

Be thankful you have a life and forsake your vain and presumptuous desire for a second one.
-Richard Dawkins

Peace

morgentaler said:

Might want to actually read up on that.
Life didn't come from "nothing". Life comes from the stable arrangement of molecules in increasingly complex configurations.

In the beginning there were base molecules.
And it was good.
Some molecules gained or lost electrons, changing state.
Some of these molecules bonded with other molecules. Some decayed, others persisted - acquiring additional changes in state and complexity over time.
Increased complexity over time lead to the formation of amino acids, which are the basis of life and needed in the formation of proteins.
And as I linked in another post, researchers have seen Uracil created in the lab by the exposure of a pyrimadine to ultraviolet light.
The building blocks of life forming in conditions available in nature.

And no burning bushes hovering about to claim credit.

So believe what you want, but I'll take science and the pursuit of knowledge over magical beings like Jah, Thor, Mercury, Shiva, etc. etc.

Click to expand...

magical beings? you should learn about the many creditable religions before you discredit them buddy. XD

morgentaler said:

Religion and mythology ARE a substitute for knowledge. They were stories made up to explain the unknown.

There are certainly better gods in mythology than "Jah".

Practice whatever you want. Put it out in public and expect to be challenged.

If I say the Mariners are the best team ever, anyone else can dispute that. Your gods don't get any special exemptions.

Click to expand...

You speak as if you are so sure of yourself. How would you know they are stories made up? You don't have an answer that proves otherwise. Therefore, each and every person is acting on faith of what they believe. Be it science or theology.

Mr.KushMan said:

Well if you were a scientist you would understand the scientific process. As an experimenter you are not trying to make something happen and then prove what it is, you observe something then ask the question why does it do this, then from there you would hypothesis and perform an experiment, if you don't get the right results, you try again or design a new experiment and rehypothesise, if you can reproduce the desired results and the math works then you present it and others can challenge your claims, as is constantly done. So they do not have faith, they are in fact skeptical of the results and doing everything they can to disprove themselves to save the social dignity. Because as scientist they understand that as far as we can tell everything in just chance.

I saw an interesting thing on the TV today on discovery. Apparently if a child sees a rock and it has broken edges and a rough top and you ask the child if the rock is like that because it was broken or do animals don't sit on it, they will if fact see it as a preexisting artifact of the rock, not that the rock is the result. Something to think about, was the world a result or was it preexisting as a creative concept. No way to tell but I know blind faith is not a moral compass, its more like a life raft floating on a current.

Peace

Click to expand...

I wasn't speaking of having faith in the experiment itself, yet of ones ability to perform the experiment. Your belief in another persons ability is called faith. Since you are knowledgeable in science, you should know that variables exist in each experiment performed. These variables can cause tremendous inconsistencies with further examination, even with the most minute change. This being noted, no matter the care taken to remove them, variables cause the experiment to be singular in result. Even when several experiments are performed with consistent evidence, we still haven't reached such subatomic levels of observation to prove that they are indeed consistent and we may never reach that level.

The argument here is not that you are wrong and I'm right or vice-versa, it's that no one knows.

Yes, I realize that we are striving for further improvements in science to reach higher levels of technology that can prove your theories. Yet another example of faith in science. You haven't proven anything except you rely on faith to determine your next move.

Mr.KushMan said:

And for your information god, or a creator, or a intelligent agent and science are not in exclusive clubs that can't coexist. Maybe GOD created the universe as a way to define itself, and we a result of the BIG BANG. What I do know is, the designer if does exist could not be a god that made the Earth in six days, no time scale would exist for that to be monitored. It didn't make a list of rules that if we don't follow has us enter a fire pit with a lava river with demons and torture for eternity, it doesn't make sense. It most certainly never had a flesh and blood child that walked the earth, although some would claim it. These are all stories for mythology, astrology, history and social control. Even the vatican has pronounced that the Bible should not be read as the word for word interpretation and in fact just a loose moral fairy tales. Even they can admit when they are wrong but people are so tied up in their ideas that they can't let go. It says something when someone is selling something but won't or are prohibited from using it themselves.

I appreciate where you are coming from and I do think that everyone has a way to cope with their problems be it clinging to a life raft or swimming in the opposite directing and stealing their rafts away, but to give blind faith in something is waste of life. Me personally when I accept something just because it is something I cannot ponder, which is what I love to do. The time I spend in the moment pondering the workings of the universe, I feel like time stops. I don't have a care, I only have a life to look ahead to.

Peace

Click to expand...

As for the time period of the creation of earth, who is to say that a day to a God isn't a thousand years to a human?

Everything doesn't have to make sense. Gravity still doesn't make sense and we've been studying it for a very, very long time.

What the Bible speaks of Hell and demons is an explanation of the sacrifice for the greater good. According to the Bible, those who do not follow God will perish for all eternity, while those who followed God's commandments reaped the benefits. Prime examples are our workplaces today. You don't reward an employee for sitting on his ass playing video games at his desk when he's suppose to be analyzing data, you fire him. The employee that works his ass off gets promoted and/or a pay raise. (except for in todays economy where you ask your boss for a raise and he says "hell no!" )

I respect each an everyone's position and belief. I do not speak as if I hold the answer to all life's questions. I do know one thing, though. I strive to be like my God, and I am rewarded with happiness and peace of mind. When you strive, you may be happy, but what happens to all that hard work when you're dead and gone?

Wow, what a fantastic and educated response, "Buddy".

Enlighten us on your "creditable" religions.

By the way, you state in your first post that you believe the Christian god created natural drugs. Well if you follow the Christian god then you shouldn't believe in any other "creditable" religions, as "Jah" has a serious problem with people putting gods before him.

That would happen to be any of those other religions.

Magic: 1. Possessing distinctive qualities that produce unaccountable or baffling effects. 2. any mysterious, seemingly inexplicable, or extraordinary power or quality. 3. A mysterious quality of enchantment.

Yeah I think that about sums up how those deities are perceived. Unless you speak of Mormanism, or scientology, which should be part of this discussion.....

Peace