Dry Ice Hash

ligrow · Feb 25, 2017

Good day RIU,

have some problem with making kief

My material is sugar leaves trimmed off from hand spin trimmer.
I use 160 micron bag shake in the 5 Gal bucket with dry ice.
I have tried twice, first time with material dry for about one week.
Kief came out dry, but smell grassy.

Second time I make it right without material dry.
Kied came out with lots of moisture, but smell better

I wonder whats the status of your material when you making Kief with dry ice?
If the material needs to be dried before making kief, how do you dry your trimmed off?
I put it in the cardboard box have the put opened, flip it once or twice a day.
The smell turned after a day or two. Im not sure how to describe that smell.

What do I do with kief with moisture?
I stored it in jars.

Any feedback would be appreciated
cheers

ondoogyob · Feb 25, 2017

It sounds like you're doing everything right, @ligrow. I wouldn't be that bothered about a grassy smell. I've only ever made dry ice kief from dried trim. But, I've also dried a bunch of plant material and you will see its aroma change during drying process. Often, to begin with, it smells slightly grassy and hay-like, with some terps evident. Then, it can go thru a real grassy/hay-like stage. But, if dried correctly (and your box tech sounds fine), that grassiness will dissipate over time and you'll start to get a terp-rich trim smell.

In terms of post-separation storage/handling of your dry ice kief, if it seems like the moisture content is high and the resin has not gone thru a 'curing' process, lay it out on cardboard or parchment paper and let it dry completely (like you would with bubble) for a couple of days. Then, jar it up and cure it, just like you would with flower (although to a lesser extent). Remember, with dry ice kief, it's not like regular kief from a tumbler, which contains pretty much just glandular heads, capitate stalks, pistillate hairs, non-glandular trichomes, etc.. Dry ice kief, on the other hand, contains plant material as a contaminant. This contaminant has to be dried, if it wasn't prior to being worked with the dry ice.

One technique I've been meaning to try, in an effort to reduce the end-product plant material contaminant, is to use a 220 micron bag with dry ice and then run that kief thru a 120 micron screen. I'll try it soon and report back.

Good luck.

ligrow · Feb 26, 2017

@ondoogyob thanks for dropping all the knowledge
That me clear that out
You mean have material well dried, then hash smell will pass away.
How long did you dried your trimmed? What's your way to dry?
In my experience, the hash grassy smell once they came out. They stay there
So I'm thinking I didn't dried it right

I'm going to take it out of the jar and dry it now
I see they getting mold on the top of the surface...

Pls share your result if you done it
Btw what size of micron you usually use?
I see ppl go first run with smaller bag and second run with bigger micron bag.
Do u think it worth to do it to catch lower grade of keif.

How do you use them expect for roll it into joint and burning it out on the bong or pipe?

Again thanks for sharing your knowledge. Really interesting to see how kief can do
Cheers :bigjoint:

ondoogyob · Feb 26, 2017

<<You mean have material well dried, then hash smell will pass away.>>. Yes. My experience is that the grassy/hay-like smell disappears during the drying process. I have 25-30 strains (A- & B-buds) in storage jars with boveda packs and some had very little grass smell when they went into jars...whereas others were super grassy, to the point where I started to worry that I'd screwed something up. In all of my own cases, that changed over time and the true aroma of the flower came thru. But, it sounds like your material is actually wet (if it's getting moldy).

<<How long did you dried your trimmed? What's your way to dry?>> A few days to a week, depending on the environmental conditions. I dry on large cardboard flats and in paper bags. Personally, I think it's ok to dry trim more quickly than flowers, since you're harvesting the resin soon after drying. You just have to be careful not to lose all of your volatile terpenes. It's a problem with drying all herbaceous plants - dry too slowly and it will mold...dry too quickly and you'll lose volatiles.

<<So I'm thinking I didn't dried it right>> Just make sure it's super dry. Personally, whether I'm tumbling the trim or running it with dry ice, I like it at the point where it would be considered too dry for long term storage.

<<Btw what size of micron you usually use?>> Like others, I've traditionally run multiple sized bags sequentially (e.g. 220/160/90/73/25). But, I haven't run any dry ice kief for about 9 mths (I'm now tumbling my trim in a Pollen Master unit and making mostly rosin). Anyway, in that time, I've changed my thinking with my approach to using dry ice. I won't go into the details here. But, in terms of reducing the amount of contaminant in the final yield, I intend to only use dry ice in the top bag (220 μ)...and then use subsequent screens to reduce the contaminant). This image [ http://www.filedropper.com/image2017-02-26at15053am ] will hopefully explain what I intend to try next. I expect this will produce a significantly better dry ice product.

<<Do u think it worth to do it to catch lower grade of keif.>> Yes. But, not below 25 μ (which is where your dust and mold will be). It all depends on what you want though. Many people stop at 45 μ.

<<How do you use them expect for roll it into joint and burning it out on the bong or pipe?>> I have traditionally just smoked it in a pipe. I also like to add a little to my coffee. And, with dry ice kief, I mix it with a lavender kief I make and it makes a very nice incense.

All the best, mate.

Gquebed · Feb 26, 2017

Ive been making dry ice hash for years. I have found that making it from fresh sugar leaf trim is the best. If you cant do that then freeze your fresh trim in ziplock bags until you have the time to make your keif.

The trouble with drying the trim first is that when you put the dry ice on it and shake...the dry trim is already brittle and it gets smashed to dust and goes through your bag into the keif... way too much of it and it sucks. You get better weight but purity and taste is lost.

Also... shake it out on a flat surface. A glass table. Just leave it dry for 24 hours... stirring it up occassionally. Then scrape it up and press it.

ondoogyob · Feb 26, 2017

@Gquebed - Cool. I'll have to try freezing the trim first. If it reduces the rate at which the contaminant is released, I'm in. Thanks for the tip.

What kind of pressing do you do? Are you pressing it into bricks? I would expect there's too much plant material to make either old skool pressed hash or rosin. I've tried to produce both from dry ice kief, with poor results. There's just not enough resin in the product. I even connected with Frenchy Cannoli about my poor results. He's the guy who turned me onto the quality limitations of dry ice kief. I had to go to bubble or tumbled kief to really produce anything of quality. Then again, maybe my dry ice kief sucks too. 8-)

Thanks.

Gquebed · Feb 26, 2017

ondoogyob said:
@Gquebed - Cool. I'll have to try freezing the trim first. If it reduces the rate at which the contaminant is released, I'm in. Thanks for the tip.

What kind of pressing do you do? Are you pressing it into bricks? I would expect there's too much plant material to make either old skool pressed hash or rosin. I've tried to produce both from dry ice kief, with poor results. There's just not enough resin in the product. I even connected with Frenchy Cannoli about my poor results. He's the guy who turned me onto the quality limitations of dry ice kief. I had to go to bubble or tumbled kief to really produce anything of quality. Then again, maybe my dry ice kief sucks too.

Thanks.

Two reasons dry ice hash doesnt press we to make old school hash. 1) if you have too much dry leaf material in youre kief then it sucks up the oil released by the resin when pressed; 2) the dry ice feezes the resin so cold that the moisture from the oil is partially evaporated (think of meat or vegetable when it is freezer burned).

So if you want to press dry ice keif into morrocan style hash you need to press with high pressure and add heat. I do mine in the oven. About 180f... in put my press in there and wait 20 mins. Pull it out and tighten down the press a bit. Do that 2 or 3 times over 3 days, always tightening the press as much as you can. It works well.

But most times i just press it without heat. 48 hours. Makes a nice brick. Then i just shave bits off to put i the pipe. It crumbles quite nicely.

Anyway... i use a 220 mc bag only. Dont shake too long. Maybe 3 mins or so. When you see a bit of green starting to come through stop and dump.

Keep the left overs. You can do the ice water extraction and get a bit more hash or what i do is decarb the left overs in the oven and then simmer it to make canna butter for cooking edibles.

MnH · Feb 27, 2017

Serious question.. why do you want to make dry ice kief?

MnH · Feb 27, 2017

ondoogyob said:
<<You mean have material well dried, then hash smell will pass away.>>. Yes. My experience is that the grassy/hay-like smell disappears during the drying process. I have 25-30 strains (A- & B-buds) in storage jars with boveda packs and some had very little grass smell when they went into jars...whereas others were super grassy, to the point where I started to worry that I'd screwed something up. In all of my own cases, that changed over time and the true aroma of the flower came thru. But, it sounds like your material is actually wet (if it's getting moldy).

<<How long did you dried your trimmed? What's your way to dry?>> A few days to a week, depending on the environmental conditions. I dry on large cardboard flats and in paper bags. Personally, I think it's ok to dry trim more quickly than flowers, since you're harvesting the resin soon after drying. You just have to be careful not to lose all of your volatile terpenes. It's a problem with drying all herbaceous plants - dry too slowly and it will mold...dry too quickly and you'll lose volatiles.

<<So I'm thinking I didn't dried it right>> Just make sure it's super dry. Personally, whether I'm tumbling the trim or running it with dry ice, I like it at the point where it would be considered too dry for long term storage.

<<Btw what size of micron you usually use?>> Like others, I've traditionally run multiple sized bags sequentially (e.g. 220/160/90/73/25). But, I haven't run any dry ice kief for about 9 mths (I'm now tumbling my trim in a Pollen Master unit and making mostly rosin). Anyway, in that time, I've changed my thinking with my approach to using dry ice. I won't go into the details here. But, in terms of reducing the amount of contaminant in the final yield, I intend to only use dry ice in the top bag (220 μ)...and then use subsequent screens to reduce the contaminant). This image [ http://www.filedropper.com/image2017-02-26at15053am ] will hopefully explain what I intend to try next. I expect this will produce a significantly better dry ice product.

<<Do u think it worth to do it to catch lower grade of keif.>> Yes. But, not below 25 μ (which is where your dust and mold will be). It all depends on what you want though. Many people stop at 45 μ.

<<How do you use them expect for roll it into joint and burning it out on the bong or pipe?>> I have traditionally just smoked it in a pipe. I also like to add a little to my coffee. And, with dry ice kief, I mix it with a lavender kief I make and it makes a very nice incense.

All the best, mate.

I'll save you the trouble.

Skip it. Seriously.. just stop. Do you have instagram? Look up #10secondsift that's my method using 2 screens and a handful of trim. Or i'll just post these.. all from trim and small nugs/popcorns/airy crap people don't sell/wanna smoke/etc. all made in about 10-15 seconds and not cleaned one bit. Finger press if it's pressed. Every other current 'sift company' now sells screens loosely based on my method, but call it something else, and do NOT have my lpi mesh sizes I had made after 13 years of trial and error and refining the method to where i'm at now.

Dry ice will, no matter what, destroy your product. Not only are you essentially 'freezer burning' your product, but you are making the actual contaminant {green, capitate stalks, anything else} more brittle than it already is.. how much more brittle do you really wanna make it? It's already dry n brittle.. or should be.. if you are making drysift of any form. If the gland isn't dry all the way how exactly do you intend to remove the gland cleanly? Ever made bubble? Done it without ice? It would be a giant mess, wouldn't it? Same thing here.. it's DRYSIFT... DRY... not moist.. not half dry.. not wet... DRYSIFT. If the gland isn't dry/cured enough to literally have you scuff it gently over a mesh and get clean sift.. it's NOT dry enough.. PERIOD. If you wish to smear your hash into your screens then by all means.. keep using moist material and using the dry ice as a crutch.. but like I said.. seriously.. skip it.

10-15 seconds.. 2 screens.. no cleaning, next to zero effort, no dry ice, ever.

MnH · Feb 27, 2017

Few more.. only 2 of these were even refined using the 3rd screen in my kit lol.. usually most just skip it and keep the yield of lots more with only a tiny tiny bit of stuff left in there.. shrug. Cheers.

Even if it was cleaned.. it still took under 5 minutes to make...

ligrow · Mar 1, 2017

ondoogyob said:
<<You mean have material well dried, then hash smell will pass away.>>. Yes. My experience is that the grassy/hay-like smell disappears during the drying process. I have 25-30 strains (A- & B-buds) in storage jars with boveda packs and some had very little grass smell when they went into jars...whereas others were super grassy, to the point where I started to worry that I'd screwed something up. In all of my own cases, that changed over time and the true aroma of the flower came thru. But, it sounds like your material is actually wet (if it's getting moldy).

<<How long did you dried your trimmed? What's your way to dry?>> A few days to a week, depending on the environmental conditions. I dry on large cardboard flats and in paper bags. Personally, I think it's ok to dry trim more quickly than flowers, since you're harvesting the resin soon after drying. You just have to be careful not to lose all of your volatile terpenes. It's a problem with drying all herbaceous plants - dry too slowly and it will mold...dry too quickly and you'll lose volatiles.

<<So I'm thinking I didn't dried it right>> Just make sure it's super dry. Personally, whether I'm tumbling the trim or running it with dry ice, I like it at the point where it would be considered too dry for long term storage.

<<Btw what size of micron you usually use?>> Like others, I've traditionally run multiple sized bags sequentially (e.g. 220/160/90/73/25). But, I haven't run any dry ice kief for about 9 mths (I'm now tumbling my trim in a Pollen Master unit and making mostly rosin). Anyway, in that time, I've changed my thinking with my approach to using dry ice. I won't go into the details here. But, in terms of reducing the amount of contaminant in the final yield, I intend to only use dry ice in the top bag (220 μ)...and then use subsequent screens to reduce the contaminant). This image [ http://www.filedropper.com/image2017-02-26at15053am ] will hopefully explain what I intend to try next. I expect this will produce a significantly better dry ice product.

<<Do u think it worth to do it to catch lower grade of keif.>> Yes. But, not below 25 μ (which is where your dust and mold will be). It all depends on what you want though. Many people stop at 45 μ.

<<How do you use them expect for roll it into joint and burning it out on the bong or pipe?>> I have traditionally just smoked it in a pipe. I also like to add a little to my coffee. And, with dry ice kief, I mix it with a lavender kief I make and it makes a very nice incense.

All the best, mate.

thanks for the detail bro
I took them out of jar let it dry for a night. the grass smell get off a little bit
Im sure it was too wet. I can tell by touch them by hand...

Im not sure what 25/45 μ. you mentioned above..

Sounds cool that you add it to coffee, didnt know kief can simply just add in some drink.
Does it change the taste of coffee? can have body high?

I saw some video on youtube, they making E-juice with kief
AMAZING
man...Im sad I can make trimmed to hash that easy...
After few failing making BHO
I simply just throw away all the trimmed

I also bought a cheap T shape pollen press.
after first press...I twist it to tight when pressed.
that upper cover can not come off when I breaking them to parts to make another press...
wondering if I should just get another one

cheers

ligrow · Mar 1, 2017

Gquebed said:
Ive been making dry ice hash for years. I have found that making it from fresh sugar leaf trim is the best. If you cant do that then freeze your fresh trim in ziplock bags until you have the time to make your keif.

The trouble with drying the trim first is that when you put the dry ice on it and shake...the dry trim is already brittle and it gets smashed to dust and goes through your bag into the keif... way too much of it and it sucks. You get better weight but purity and taste is lost.

Also... shake it out on a flat surface. A glass table. Just leave it dry for 24 hours... stirring it up occassionally. Then scrape it up and press it.

I totally feeling you bro.
I have tried twice, first time material was dry(maybe not 100% dry, but they have lay in there for about a week)
Second time was fresh trimmed.

Dry material yield more
fresh trimmed smell better, but yield less and wet

I have dump both of them out on the paper.
Let them dry for few days to see how it go

I shake it in the plastic box. Do you think its good idea leave them dry for 24 hrs after shake them out?

How do you use your kief?

ligrow · Mar 1, 2017

Gquebed said:
Two reasons dry ice hash doesnt press we to make old school hash. 1) if you have too much dry leaf material in youre kief then it sucks up the oil released by the resin when pressed; 2) the dry ice feezes the resin so cold that the moisture from the oil is partially evaporated (think of meat or vegetable when it is freezer burned).

So if you want to press dry ice keif into morrocan style hash you need to press with high pressure and add heat. I do mine in the oven. About 180f... in put my press in there and wait 20 mins. Pull it out and tighten down the press a bit. Do that 2 or 3 times over 3 days, always tightening the press as much as you can. It works well.

But most times i just press it without heat. 48 hours. Makes a nice brick. Then i just shave bits off to put i the pipe. It crumbles quite nicely.

Anyway... i use a 220 mc bag only. Dont shake too long. Maybe 3 mins or so. When you see a bit of green starting to come through stop and dump.

Keep the left overs. You can do the ice water extraction and get a bit more hash or what i do is decarb the left overs in the oven and then simmer it to make canna butter for cooking edibles.

Should I stop shaking when green starting come off?!
I thought that was the shit I want to catch..

I put mater with dry ice in the bucket for 5 mins.
then shake it until green become lighter...
Pls point me out the right process if I done it wrong.

cheers

ligrow · Mar 1, 2017

MnH said:
View attachment 3896092 View attachment 3896093 View attachment 3896094 View attachment 3896095 View attachment 3896096 View attachment 3896097 View attachment 3896098 Few more.. only 2 of these were even refined using the 3rd screen in my kit lol.. usually most just skip it and keep the yield of lots more with only a tiny tiny bit of stuff left in there.. shrug. Cheers.

Even if it was cleaned.. it still took under 5 minutes to make...

wow that shit look pure!
I never done bubble before.
Your method look great! could you point out the detail of you process?
chees

WarMachine · Mar 1, 2017

ligrow said:
wow that shit look pure!
I never done bubble before.
Your method look great! could you point out the detail of you process?
chees

His is dry sift not bubble. His tech works really well for fast full melt dry sift

chemphlegm · Mar 1, 2017

Gquebed said:
Ive been making dry ice hash for years. I have found that making it from fresh sugar leaf trim is the best. If you cant do that then freeze your fresh trim in ziplock bags until you have the time to make your keif.

The trouble with drying the trim first is that when you put the dry ice on it and shake...the dry trim is already brittle and it gets smashed to dust and goes through your bag into the keif... way too much of it and it sucks. You get better weight but purity and taste is lost.

Also... shake it out on a flat surface. A glass table. Just leave it dry for 24 hours... stirring it up occassionally. Then scrape it up and press it.

purity, taste and potency is lost.

check amazon for bucket topper micron screens, pollen shakers, for pennies you can skip the dry ice bit. I have a dry ice shaker also, it sits with all the big glass bongs I never use.
shake dry material only. buds have more trichomes to break off than leaves.
I have an amazon shaker for 12 bucks and its the only thing I use for years. check it out http://bfy.tw/ANlt

ondoogyob · Mar 1, 2017

ligrow said:
thanks for the detail bro
I took them out of jar let it dry for a night. the grass smell get off a little bit
Im sure it was too wet. I can tell by touch them by hand...

Im not sure what 25/45 μ. you mentioned above..

Sounds cool that you add it to coffee, didnt know kief can simply just add in some drink.
Does it change the taste of coffee? can have body high?

I saw some video on youtube, they making E-juice with kief
AMAZING
man...Im sad I can make trimmed to hash that easy...
After few failing making BHO
I simply just throw away all the trimmed

I also bought a cheap T shape pollen press.
after first press...I twist it to tight when pressed.
that upper cover can not come off when I breaking them to parts to make another press...
wondering if I should just get another one

cheers

<<I took them out of jar let it dry for a night. the grass smell get off a little bit>> Let it dry completely. There's no need to rush to get it into jars. Let it sit out for a week, if you have to.

<<Im not sure what 25/45 μ. you mentioned above>> These are screen sizes. Watch some of Bubbleman's videos on YouTube. You'll learn about screen sizes and the kind of dry sift method DrySiftWizard is talking about. Hopefully, you'll also understand that the dry ice method, despite having many fans, produces a low quality product, by comparison.

<<Does it change the taste of coffee? can have body high?>> Yes, but the extent to which that is true also depends on how much you use. Try 1/4-1/2 a teaspoon to begin with. It won't be soluble. But, give it a good stir and it will stay in suspension long enough to be consumed.

<<that upper cover can not come off when I breaking them to parts to make another press>> Sorry. I'm not sure what you mean here. But, if your 'hash' puck is sticking to your press, then consider using a bit of parchment paper between your kief and the press.

The bottom line is, there are better ways to process your trim. The dry ice method produces a contaminated product (arguably, anything less than 100% glandular heads contains contaminant) that I don't like to call hash or kief. Consider dry sift or bubble. You can dial-in either method to produce whatever level of purity you want.

Good luck.

Gquebed · Mar 1, 2017

ligrow said:
I totally feeling you bro.
I have tried twice, first time material was dry(maybe not 100% dry, but they have lay in there for about a week)
Second time was fresh trimmed.

Dry material yield more
fresh trimmed smell better, but yield less and wet

I have dump both of them out on the paper.
Let them dry for few days to see how it go

I shake it in the plastic box. Do you think its good idea leave them dry for 24 hrs after shake them out?

How do you use your kief?

Ya...if its wet trim let it sit for 24hrs.

I press the kief into bricks and pipe it. Smooth...

Gquebed · Mar 1, 2017

ligrow said:
Should I stop shaking when green starting come off?!
I thought that was the shit I want to catch..

I put mater with dry ice in the bucket for 5 mins.
then shake it until green become lighter...
Pls point me out the right process if I done it wrong.

cheers

Dont let it sit too long in the ice and dont shake so long. But use lots of ice. When you see green flecks landing on your gold thats when you stop. Its the gold you want. Then reload.

Like i said... less green is less weight but more pure resin. But... i never let a little bitbof green bother me...the gold is so sweet, especially if to press it hard for two days at least.

Gquebed · Mar 1, 2017

chemphlegm said:
purity, taste and potency is lost.

check amazon for bucket topper micron screens, pollen shakers, for pennies you can skip the dry ice bit. I have a dry ice shaker also, it sits with all the big glass bongs I never use.
shake dry material only. buds have more trichomes to break off than leaves.
I have an amazon shaker for 12 bucks and its the only thing I use for years. check it out http://bfy.tw/ANlt

Im not that fussy. My method is quick, cheap and clean. And it gets me something that real im happy with. I grew up smoking the Gold Seal black hash from afghanistan. That was far from pure but i loved it. The smell of it still makes my mouth water.

Then i got to smoke some morroccan #1 in amsterdam. It was the best hash i have ever smoked in my life...until i started making my own. It s very much like the morrocan style, but much cleaner because of a clean manner of extraction. May not be pure as what others do, but i don think purity is the end all be all. That lacks character, to me...

To each his own i guess.

The key to the dry ice keif is pressing it hard for a few days like the morrocan do... makes the gold sweeter...i imagine it would do the same to tumble sifting or the like.

And there is no potency lost. Potency isnt a measure of how pure the resin is. It is a measure of how strong the resin is. There is a difference. You dont get higher by smoking more of it. At a certain point past your tolerance you only get so high. The difference in how high you get is a difference between strains.

As for using my precious buds in the dry ice... could never do it. I agree there is much better ways to extract from flowers. Dry ice for trim only...

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