DWC Plant Issue - Yellow Tips

HPAgirl

Member
Age of Plants: ~ 7 weeks
Stage of Growth: Veg (they are mothers)
Grow System: Recirculating DWC
Temp: ~75 (when lights on)
Humidity: ~55%
Nutes: Botanicare Cal-Mag at 5 ml/gal (~340 ppm), Sensi Grow A&B (~300ppm), UC Roots at 1ml/gal every 5-7 days.
Using chiller to keep water temp at 68 degrees F
CO2 Enrichment

My plants were showing signs of cal-mag deficiency so I upped the cal-mag to Botanicare's recommended strength, despite Advanced Nutrient's advice to up their nutrients to 1400 ppm overall and to not use cal-mag or third-party nutrients. I have much less spotting showing up on my leaves now but I do have these yellow tips on some of the plants (not all). Does anyone know what this is? It doesn't look like typical nutrient burn and I'm at a much lower dosage of AN than they recommend at the moment. Advice is appreciated!
 

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WeedFreak78

Well-Known Member
Al this info applies to the "PH Perfect" line..if It's the old formula..disregard all of this..lol..let me know I'll delete all of this if it doesn't.

If it's the "PH perfect" line of sensi A&B..be very careful adding anything that's not recommended, I'm running the Conni line A&B Veg and B-52 and mixing with tap water. What's your base water like? Tap, RO, distilled..whats the PPM? I'm in a very similar setup except I'm just DWC, not recirc. I'm only 5 weeks in from seed. I started having what looked like nute issues at week 2, but I was only running at 1/4 strength..once I bumped up the strength everything bounced back and took off. At 5 weeks now I'm at 100% , 44ml A&B, 22ml B-52 - nothing else in 3 gals of water = appx [email protected], or 2.6 EC..craziness!!( running 2 auto's and 2 regs') and everything is thriving.

I've done A BUNCH of reading on the "PH perfect" line...I'm still on the fence. Here's some stuff I've come across that might help, knowing what I know and read of these nutes, it's what I'd do to try and fix your situation - 1:Your base Ca/Mg seems high, use a base water with about 100-150ppm of Ca/Mg, either plain tap that measures in that range or R/O with added Ca/Mg to bring it up. AN says you don't need Ca/Mg but it seems to be the biggest issue I read about, supplemented base water seems to clear it up. I'm about to switch to RO so If I start seeing Ca/Mg issues I'll know their formulas are deficient. 2: Bring up your nutrient concentration, at 7 weeks you should be at full strength, or close to it depending on if the plants can handle it. It seems like you are at 1/4 strength(300ppm of base)..I think they are starving. bring that up to around 600-800PPM, so 100-150 Ca/Mg and 600-800ppm base..total 700-900 +/-. if they start bouncing back up to full strength the next round.

Also..DO NOT PH ADJUST IT! ...mine runs 6.5-7.2Ph. PH adjusters will neutralize the strong PH buffers built into the nutes and start causing wild fluctuations and deficiencies. The nutes are chelated to the point the plant can uptake between 5-8PH, so PH adjustment shouldn't be needed..I don't know how the UC Roots will interact with the base nutes, you'll have to figure that one out.
 

old shol4evr

Well-Known Member
well with both of yalls nutrients it seems like you got it tuned in but i hate to tell you this but you defitnely have a calmag whore there and the maker might suggest that you dont use it but it needs some calimagic bottom line
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
I think you're dosing too much cal/mag. all the nutrients are on a balance with one another.. raising one makes another less available and so on. raising calcium and magnesium starts to block k uptake as well as nitrogen. It'll also affect your micro nutrients uptake (Cu, Mo, B, Si).

if your base nutrient is balanced properly, you shouldnt need cal/mag. just up your nutrient ppm.. although in any stage of life 1400ppm (2.8ec assuming you're at .5 conversion) is WAY to high, especially for a non flowering plant. usually in veg you dont need to go over anywhere from 1.0-1.6ec (500-800ppm) and in flower you should never have to go over 1.5-2.0ec (750ppm-1000ppm).. but typically in DWC you are able to run lower PPM's because the roots are constantly submerged and have full availability to nutrients 24/7.

it's possible that maybe what you thought was a cal/mag deficiency could have been something else. what were you seeing that indicated a cal/mag deficiency in the first place?
 

HPAgirl

Member
@sidewing I was getting brown spotting and crisping up of the leaves, which mostly presented itself in older growth but occasionally on some new growth. I attached a few pictures - let me know what you think.

I am using an RO machine that strips everything down to 2 ppm. Using plain base nutes alone caused cal-mag deficiencies across the board and I had to do something about it. The thing about using the cal-mag, though, is that it raises the ppm ~65ppm for every 1 ml/gal. Once you're running at 5 ml/gal, you're adding in ~325 ppm. I had backed off the cal-mag for a bit and raised the base nutes concentration and the cal-mag deficiencies got worse. Bringing the cal-mag back to 5 ml/gal greened everything up (for the most part) but now on some of my plants I have this yellow tipping.

@WeedFreak78 I have been concerned that I am starving the plants, although I do want these DWC plants to be my vegging mothers, and I want to be able to level off at some point without going broke. How do you like the Conni line? Sensi A & B seems to need a LOT of it to raise the ppm... again, expensive. I love AN but I'm a little concerned about using Sensi A & B.

DWC seems to be a lot of maintenance compared to my aero set-ups! The growth is definitely explosive though.
 

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sidewing

Well-Known Member
well, i will start by saying i run dwc, and if you want simplicity, the easiest route i found is to use maxigrow powder in veg. very inexpensive also. a 2.2lb bag will run you anywhere from 10-15 dollars depending on your source and if you get a discount.
use silica also to raise your ph, i used dutchmaster silica gold.

in a 5 gallon reservoir ( 5 gallons of ro water) i'd first add 9ml of silica in the first gallon i add, then add 3 teaspoons (scoop provided in the bag, the smaller scoop is the teaspoon obviously) of maxigrow. then add the last 3 gallons of ro water.. 3tsp in 5 gallons of water, and 9ml of DM silica gold.. then i'd have to add a few drops of AN ph down. but honestly it without ph down it targeted right at like 6.3ph, which is not horrible. you'll have the greenest healthiest plants you've ever had, and extremely inexpensive and easy to maintain. then just dump weekly and redo it. you can stretch to 2 weeks if you want during the first couple of weeks of veg. but the nutrients are so cheap, no need to.

don't be fooled by big price tags, salts are salts. and maxigrow is just as good as anything else, and way simpler.

3 tsp per 5 gallons puts the ec at around 1.2, and they will stay green at that level. i also recommend some sort of beneficial bacteria to keep root zone healthy, i don't like the sterile route. using microbial tea in your reservoir will allow you to run at higher temps, and also allow a slightly wider ph range of uptake.

and don't be fooled by the 'plants need more P and less N in flower' that everyone online is boasting.. its true they use more P than N in flower, but its in subtle amounts and you don't need to change what you're feeding the plant. a proper balanced ratio of nutrients is WAY more important than adding a PK boost. high P levels will hinder uptake of N, Ca, and Iron mainly.

you can run maxigrow alone all through veg and flower. i use it at the rate of 9tsp per 10 gallons of RO water in flower, 18ml of silica (always add silica alone and first), and then like a few drops of AN ph down. i like AN ph down cuz its very concentrated and only takes drops to work.

but if you're not sold on the idea that a higher n, lower p is the ideal ratio for cannabis, or any other plant (cuz it is fyi) they have maxibloom, which is just as cheap and just as easy to use. except you'll have to use PH up because its very acidic. I truly recommend, from personal experience, that you run maxigrow from start to harvest, and do like 3 days of unadjusted RO water only at the end.. i promise you'll have one of the best harvests you've ever had.

oh, but back to the original question, I have ONE strain (cherry pie) that no matter what i do to it in DWC, i always get those brown necrotic spots.. i can't prevent it. but it doesn't affect my harvest or quality. it happened when i ran maxibloom in flower.. i suspect it was from the high levels of P in relation to the amount of nitrogen, potassium and calcium.. which was causing a misbalance in the micro nutrients. but i could never narrow it down to what it was.

ive found that no nutrient line is perfect. the only way to truly dial things in is to buy the raw salts yourself and make your own nutrient formulation, which i am in the experimental stages of right now.

but yes those pics def look like early calcium deficiency.. if you run maxigrow i never had any calcium deficiencies when with RO water on any strain.
 
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WeedFreak78

Well-Known Member
@WeedFreak78 I have been concerned that I am starving the plants, although I do want these DWC plants to be my vegging mothers, and I want to be able to level off at some point without going broke. How do you like the Conni line? Sensi A & B seems to need a LOT of it to raise the ppm... again, expensive. I love AN but I'm a little concerned about using Sensi A & B.

DWC seems to be a lot of maintenance compared to my aero set-ups! The growth is definitely explosive though.
Is it the PH perfect line? you didn't say..
if it is..stop reading PPM and mix by the instructions. I have 2 I'll be mothering , running at full strength until they get bigger to get some clones, then i'll back off to whatever is needed to keep it alive. I've only been using it for 5 weeks but it seems stupid simple, once you throw out the ideas of PH/PPM..lol. I started doing a little figuring last night and i think I could get 2 full grows out of the quarts of conni A&B grow, connie A&B flower, B-52, and nirvana. That work out to something like $50-75/ 10 wk cycle..definitely not cheap, but if I'm pulling a lb..I'm not really going to sweat it, I'm not in it to maximize profit margins.

Only if it is "PH Perfect", - i wish you weren't in RDWC so you could try it on one plant - mix Ca/Mg into your RO at 100-150ppm, mix your base A&B at 33ml A&B(3/4 strength), I'd leave the UC roots out for now..I don't know how that interacts with the base nutes..then give it a couple days..it might stall out a little getting such a blast of nutes after having such a weak solution, but I bet it will take off within a couple days.

I hope you're right about aero being easier. I'm building a LP/NFT hybrid rail system for flowering..i figured I'd never done hydro..might as well jump into a couple different types..lol
 

sidewing

Well-Known Member
Aero and dwc is considered hardest hydro methods. Fyi. Look into maxigrow and maxibloom. It costs me about 25 dollars every 6 months running a 5gal veg res and two 10gal flower res being changed once a week.for simplicity and price it really can't be beat. I promise it'll work as well as the bottled stuff. You are paying for water dilution of raw salts. With maxi you're just paying for the dry salts which are conveniently premixed
 

old shol4evr

Well-Known Member
i think all your problems would be solved with kelp4less grow pack designed for soil-coc-hydro mix 1 tbsp per gallon and all the salts or minerals are all added in each feeding ,check them out at kelp4less enter oldskol4evr for a 10% discount
 
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