Far Red ....

Sade said:

They are. I live and work in legal cannabis industry in Humboldt county and for light deps and adding supplemental lighting works perfectly. Especially if you are lightdepping and cutting out the sun. This way you can still accelerate the phytochrome process with some supplemental spectrums.

You have no idea about the electrical bill until you actually use them yourself. Why are you bashing everyone for finally finding a damn good LEDs light system. My whole pge bill gas and everything was 157 this month and during longest light on phase veg. Try them out man prices are dropping.

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I don't live there but, I do also work in the industry. $157 a month? Nice cpl of tents.

Try 4 figures per, total .... Even with a shift over to LED (my plants have to run shorter, and I have to cycle the air about once every hour of lights on). I did drop about 50% of my lighting run cost.

BTW, I did try them sir. I have 3 730nm specific LED units, left sitting in storage. While these spectrum specific units do put the plant to "sleep" faster. I have in 2 years of trying. Have yet for them to make any market difference vs without them.

If you are talking about available UV from LED banks? They only supply UVA and that, don't do shit. You need UVB at 230-315 nm.

Well if you have UVB then you also need UVA as this induces UV photorepair. But UVA/NUV alone also works to some extent as there are many absorption peaks sitting around 365-420nm. Actually most peaks reside within these UVA/blue bandwaves....

FR can be tricky as the plant's physiological reaction is three-fold - if one encounters too much stretching under continuous daylight FR addition one has to either increase the amount of 660nm, and/or UV/blue. FR is a very special kind of light that disperses rather like IR, that's why it can also reach deep into a thick canopy. It may be used to increase photosystem I net photosynthesisrate as this is oftentimes the limiting factor due to the fact that the PSII supercomplex is twice as large as PSI in landplants.
Consequently, alot of new LED board manufacturers increasingly add this wavelength - citing the extended Fluence PhysioSpec here as a prime example.

As for the sleep initiation - Cannabis is a plant that can respire during the day (= it can be lit 24h/7 "without problems") whereas, for example, tomatoes will encounter photoinhibition up to the point of photodeath if kept too long under strong continuous light.

Nevertheless, the "Florigen"-mechanism is still not completely understood so it remains debatable if an increased length of night brings benefits. Oftentimes, the answer to such a question is not easy as a grow consists of many interrelated factors...
Paradoxically, there emerge new insights into "breaks" of the daylight regime, ie. giving plants a short time of darkness or reduced irradiance without the sacrifice of biomass. This may be explainable from the relief of otherwise toxic photosynthetic byproducts (radical oxygen species) by a superoxiddismutase-clearance mechanism which is increasingly necessary at high PS rates (close to the CO2 cap)

Not so long ago scientists found a new type of chlorophyl (Chl-f-712) [IIRC] in cyanobacteria & green algae which enables uphill-exciton-transport to the reaction center of PSI (p700). This is very unusual considering the typical buildplan of the light-harvesting complexes which hold the absorption-max pigments at the end of the chain (p680 & p700) with the other, less red-shiftet pigments increasingly distal to it (the increased latent energy of shorter-wavelength photons help to overcome the distance....)
I'm not aware if this Chl-f can be found in landplants as well but the PS capacity of FR light beyond the "red-drop" has been confirmed empirically since 1957 by Emerson (et al) many times.

So this region of the spectrum is still not fully understood and perhaps harbours unknown potential. We'd need to have a team of experts to systematically review this particular region, as isolated studies may not get to the true bottom of this, plus, some are even in conflict, esp. when it comes to increased or decreased measured PS rates.

P.S.
btw it's good to see you're back, and (hopefully), in good health.

Kassiopeija said:

As for the sleep initiation - Cannabis is a plant that can respire during the day (= it can be lit 24h/7 "without problems") whereas, for example, tomatoes will encounter photoinhibition up to the point of photodeath if kept too long under strong continuous light.

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Well, yes and no. It can be run 24/7 but it won't flower under that.

They also will slow in growth through reduced light effectiveness/use, and that starts at around 30%. This loss will continue - 24/7 until it's given a lights out period of at least a length of time required to keep them from going to bloom... During this lights out time, as the plant "sleeps".
The plant recovers (at the cellular peptide level) to , again be able to utilize the light 100%. This then cuts the plants ability to use that powerful light again (this is found to actually save the plant from excess light intensity "damage".

The effect is called the "Light saturation point in C3 plants" It happens earlier in the day then most folks think.

Personally, I find that 24/7 plants are lanky and less able to support themselves (when grown out to be large plants)......That's my experience..

Kassiopeija said:

P.S.
btw it's good to see you're back, and (hopefully), in good health.

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Yeah, doing fine! Just took time off.
Kinda looking at a longer sabbatical starting early next year and lasting longer.
Wife and I are looking at spending time at our "out of the country" Homes. She is going to finally,,,,,,retire!
Say 6 months at each and then return home..... Jamaica, Italy and Austria. Likely figuring out what 1 to finally end up in. See if the boys would like any of the other 2 and sell what we don't need.

Boys will get the farm, and be part of running the whole Co-op. One is dating one of the other farm Co-op "daughters". Looks like the family will grow to include some beef experts and grand children. Some day anyway... The beef guy is my original Co-op partner and best friend...

This time I'll let you all know before I leave and when I may return....

Dr. Who said:

Yeah, doing fine! Just took time off.
Kinda looking at a longer sabbatical starting early next year and lasting longer.
Wife and I are looking at spending time at our "out of the country" Homes. She is going to finally,,,,,,retire!
Say 6 months at each and then return home..... Jamaica, Italy and Austria. Likely figuring out what 1 to finally end up in. See if the boys would like any of the other 2 and sell what we don't need.

Boys will get the farm, and be part of running the whole Co-op. One is dating one of the other farm Co-op "daughters". Looks like the family will grow to include some beef experts and grand children. Some day anyway... The beef guy is my original Co-op partner and best friend...

This time I'll let you all know before I leave and when I may return....

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we'd be interested in renting the house in Osterreich when you aren't there. One of my favorite countries. What part? We've done Salzburg, the Alps and Klagenfurt areas.

Dr. Who said:

They also will slow in growth through reduced light effectiveness/use, and that starts at around 30%. This loss will continue - 24/7 until it's given a lights out period of at least a length of time required to keep them from going to bloom... During this lights out time, as the plant "sleeps".
The plant recovers (at the cellular peptide level) to , again be able to utilize the light 100%. This then cuts the plants ability to use that powerful light again (this is found to actually save the plant from excess light intensity "damage".

The effect is called the "Light saturation point in C3 plants" It happens earlier in the day then most folks think.

Personally, I find that 24/7 plants are lanky and less able to support themselves (when grown out to be large plants)......That's my experience..

Click to expand...

Yes, indeed, plants are much more susceptible for light for doing photosynthesis in the early 6-8h of the day (grossly estimated generally for plants, out of a botany book) and then there must be quite some physiological reasons of why it does drop. The 24h light regime seems to create much less healthy plants, even 18h of strong light seems excessive.

Alot of growers that changed their regime to run 12/12 from seed report 0 drop in growth, but these are usually SOGs which flower out early. Alot of calculations of light strengths for 18/6 seems to take this into account and thus, deliver low ppfd, but I don't like that, esp. on grown-up fullbushy plants - with regards to the Sieve & Detour-effect (strong light creates much better penetration from both a plant physiological and physical standpoint....) so I'm of the mindset that strong lightstrength on a reduced timer may be best. Just like outside the sun & clouds & the skylight. Keeping the plants in veg using the Gas Lantern Routine or dimming down... usually not viable with HIDs but LED offers alot of possibilities here:

Micro-naps for plants: Flicking the lights on and off can save energy without hurting indoor plants - Explore

Energy-savings of 66% but increased growth (although not more than the standard 12h...)

How is this even possible or explainable from a plant physiological point of view... That prof has quite a good standing in photobiology... so, not saying this is the general rule, but under certain circumstances it may seem that "less = more".

Dr. Who said:

Let me say this also..

If the things actually worked as claimed...

The whole world of cannabis growing,,,,,,would be doing it...
I mean that they have been around long enough to be the "IT" thing if they did....Right?

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Consensus isn't a recommended method of validation

BTW within here is that spectrum I've mentioned previously, plus some general info on FR.

I usually run 24/7 in veg. I've tried nights, but if anything the growth is slower and more strech.

Bosgrower said:

Consensus isn't a recommended method of validation

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True enough but, This isn't a college class. I thought I might put up industry use (or lack there of) to justify my point for the masses.
Industry use, should be a very good indicator of viability in production use....

Kassiopeija said:

Micro-naps for plants: Flicking the lights on and off can save energy without hurting indoor plants - Explore

Energy-savings of 66% but increased growth (although not more than the standard 12h...)

How is this even possible or explainable from a plant physiological point of view... That prof has quite a good standing in photobiology... so, not saying this is the general rule, but under certain circumstances it may seem that "less = more".

Click to expand...

Because they doing this in VEG.
Reduction is electrical use would be 50%.
Now build us the controller they used. Lets try it.. Hell, I'm game!

This would be only possible by those who DO NOT use MH,HPS DE lighting! So like LED, etc would work.

Then again, I spend the bulk of my electrical $ on bloom. Include cooling and circulation to all that too.

Dr. Who said:

I don't live there but, I do also work in the industry. $157 a month? Nice cpl of tents.

Try 4 figures per, total .... Even with a shift over to LED (my plants have to run shorter, and I have to cycle the air about once every hour of lights on). I did drop about 50% of my lighting run cost.

BTW, I did try them sir. I have 3 730nm specific LED units, left sitting in storage. While these spectrum specific units do put the plant to "sleep" faster. I have in 2 years of trying. Have yet for them to make any market difference vs without them.

If you are talking about available UV from LED banks? They only supply UVA and that, don't do shit. You need UVB at 230-315 nm.

Click to expand...

Yea did some more research. Very pricey to build a light with enough proper 290nm diodes to make it beneficial. Like you said my small 5x5 grow at home for personal smoke is a great way to experiment with things. If I had a much larger grow I could not afford it.

Hey guys I’m still reading this thread so I’m sorry if my question came up and or is already answered.
I can see the benefits of running 15mins of far red around lights out.weather your trying to get a 13 hour day or do 12/12 a little quicker.

has anyone experimented with 730nm at lights out in veg??or is that stupid?
I know people do 18/6,20/4 and even 24/0 in veg I’m wondering if you could run 20/4 or something with the far red as lights go out and the plants would get “more” rest than usual?