• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

First Indoor using DIY CXB3590

edgein123

edgein123

Well-Known Member
Hi all and greetings,

I've actually opened an account here around 6 years ago (!!!) and am back to business!

I've read tons of information (mostly by SupraSPL and the other DIY COB gurus) and decided to go for my first ever indoor grow using 4 CXB3590 CD bin on an HLG-185-C1400A (decided to pass the potted B version to minimize effort, cables and KISS [Keep It Simple Stupid]).

Other than not being able to power the Arctic coolers (I purchased Arctic Pro Rev. 2 since those were the only ones available locally and couldn't get em to run no matter the wire combination I used, when I started reading about PWM and the frequency pulses it requires to run I said okay, time to move along, I felt depressed as I'm a Sysadmin and it was bugging me I couldn't figure it out but oh well..) and using my gf's imagination we went on attaching 4 120mm PC case fans on top of each CPU heatsink, all hooked to a 12V 1.25A power adapter, which keeps fairly cool.

As mentioned, I'm trying to keep things as simple as I can, I used thermal paste to mount to cobs along with Kapton to hold the soldered wires, I have no veg tent and am using only the 3500K CXB3590s for all grow cycle.

I started 4 bagseeds (good genes, supposedly, took a few days to pop as they're old but they're alive indeed), in a small potting container, all organic soil, an excellent local mix I use for my outdoor herbs and tomatoes.

1 seem quite healthy (even though he's quite a weird pheno, started with 3 leaves instead of the usual 2 you see in a seedling), the other 3 are slow going and I'm wondering if that's because of my chips height.

I've read quite a few threads and various posts and even looked at pictures but haven't caught a single picture showing the distance from a 3-5 days old seedlings.

The MW 1400A is dimmed to its lowest settings which kinda seems at half from 1400ma as I know they don't need much now. Questions is.. what would be the perfect distance from the seedling at this stage?

Tent is 60cm*60cm*180cm, I have a lil oscillating clip fan and a vent for outtake other than the 4 120mm above the COBs.

This is my first indoor grow, if I haven't mentioned that - I do have experience in outdoor growing and growing in general, my Orchid has been reflowering for 6 years now giving an extraordinary display every 5-6 months for at least 3 months :)

I try to keep myself from taking photos as I'm a bit paranoid but if I have to, I'll take em :P
 
Will Thayer

Will Thayer

Well-Known Member
Hello Edgein123,

That 3 leaf seedling is a mutation called whorled phyllotaxy. Extra leaf and usually an extra branch from each node. She will bush out nicely. I think they are kind of cool. I believe it is a recessive gene.

You might be better off starting your seedlings under a T5 or raising your 4 x CXBs as high as you can and lowering it depending on the seedlings response. It seems to me that even dimmed the fixture is perhaps a little overkill for less than a week old seedlings. Remember the seedlings first job is to create a strong root system to feed new growth and literally hold it in the ground. If after a week or two they seem to be stretching towards the light lower it a bit at a time. Once your true leaves have formed it will be easier to judge distance by your internode spacing.

If you have been reflowering an orchid for 6 years you definitely have the skill set to be a successful indoor cannabis grower.

Paint your pictures with words. Don't worry about excessive paranoia, they are always watching.:shock:

Cheers,
Will
 
edgein123

edgein123

Well-Known Member
Hey Will,

Thanks a lot for your reply, that was faster than I was hoping it'd be.

Yeah I do know only from researching that fluorescent would be best for seedlings but just can't seem to find the time (I'm usually working 9am to 7-9pm so wanna keep maint. at minimal) to invest in something simple enough to maintain and thought oh well it's just a phase, they'll do well with those, and that 1 pheno is growing incredibly fast! (even though this makes me think it's a male but we'll see) - I can get each of the COBs as high as 1.6m, or 4' from the seedlings, question is.. how high? I have em at around 35cm from top of seedlings ATM, with exception of that one pheno, this one's pretty close @ around 20cm and shows no signs of stretching or any heat stress, it has started its first set of leaves.

Anyhow, next batch will start under little led T5s, I'll keep you posted for more help :)

Thanks again!

Btw, I'm not just paranoid, I'm ex-arrested and trialed for seed ordering paranoid :P

Fuck em all man, legalize it!

But that we'll keep for another discussion..
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
edgein123 said:
Hey Will,

Thanks a lot for your reply, that was faster than I was hoping it'd be.

Yeah I do know only from researching that fluorescent would be best for seedlings but just can't seem to find the time (I'm usually working 9am to 7-9pm so wanna keep maint. at minimal) to invest in something simple enough to maintain and thought oh well it's just a phase, they'll do well with those, and that 1 pheno is growing incredibly fast! (even though this makes me think it's a male but we'll see) - I can get each of the COBs as high as 1.6m, or 4' from the seedlings, question is.. how high? I have em at around 35cm from top of seedlings ATM, with exception of that one pheno, this one's pretty close @ around 20cm and shows no signs of stretching or any heat stress, it has started its first set of leaves.

Anyhow, next batch will start under little led T5s, I'll keep you posted for more help :)

Thanks again!

Btw, I'm not just paranoid, I'm ex-arrested and trialed for seed ordering paranoid :P

Fuck em all man, legalize it!

But that we'll keep for another discussion..
Click to expand...
What happened?
 
edgein123

edgein123

Well-Known Member
Well, it's quite a long story but sure..

I ordered some seeds and grew some nice bud from those, simple outdoor grow, my house owner didn't seem to care and so did my neighbors who were around my age.. All went fine, so comes winter, I'm like.. okay, let's order some more beans.

When I went to pick up the package from the post office 3 undercover detectives awaited me outside and picked me up, my girlfriend actually dropped me off the post office and from there to her office.
They had already set up a search team at my lil 40m Sq apartment including 2 dogs and whatnot, they even had interns to see how big a catch they got and how criminals live (being very cynical).

They were quite amazed to see no lights in the closets or anything and only chopped down tree in my garden, it's like they were actually amazed that plants grow under the sun, pff. I just pointed them to everything as I'm no trouble maker (I started a new job 6 months before that as an IT technician subcontractor), they asked who lives with me and obviously I said she had nothing to do with it and she didn't know anything (they didn't even bother doing more, I kept her clean while her CC was the one who paid for the beans, this is how stupid they are).

So they arrested me, spent 4 days in a prison cell because the trial just kept being delayed to eventually be released and accused for importing illegal substances, dealing with illegal substances and holding tools for a creation of illegal substances (my grinder and rolling papers).

With the help of a lawyer that cost me a fortune I kept clean for 6 months to be able to show them I'm a 'normal' person which eventually helped in trial.

This went on for 4 years across 6 trials to be reduced to self use and only giving 200 hours in community service, I actually met a new friend and helped him feel better with his life, this was someone who tried to commit suicide and broke his 2 arms and legs.

Needless to say, after the 1st 6 months I've kept smoking regularly, and so did my g/f, I will not even get into what this did to our relationship (her parents, and mine and that whole drama), but we're good now and getting towards setting roots and making a family.

I hope everyone that reads this and had a similar experience will understand why I'm taking a risk growing again - we let em scare us, they win.

I'm the perfect example of a normal average 9 to 9 working person that happens to love smoking as an escape from a hard day's work. I think the world is coming to realize just that, keep it up, we will win.

Hope that wasn't too long for ya'll.

Happy growing. Stay strong!
 
edgein123

edgein123

Well-Known Member
They can't bro, just can't! :)

Will Thayer said:
You might be better off starting your seedlings under a T5 or raising your 4 x CXBs as high as you can and lowering it depending on the seedlings response. It seems to me that even dimmed the fixture is perhaps a little overkill for less than a week old seedlings. Remember the seedlings first job is to create a strong root system to feed new growth and literally hold it in the ground. If after a week or two they seem to be stretching towards the light lower it a bit at a time. Once your true leaves have formed it will be easier to judge distance by your internode spacing.
Click to expand...
Hi Will, so any height suggestion? I currently have them dimmed @ 700ma about 20" from the seedlings. No optics.

Should I raise the lights a bit more? 2ft?
 
Will Thayer

Will Thayer

Well-Known Member
So 4 x CXB3590 @ 700ma is about 23w a sq ft. PPFD is around 660 or in old measuring about 19000 lumens divide by 4 is 4750 lumens per sq ft.
That is quite a bit for seedlings in their first week or two of life. You could easily flower with that amount of light over 4 sq ft.

I would maybe try 2ft or more even. They just do not need such intensity that early. You are most likely drawing 100w from the wall when a 21w cool white T5 or two would do just as well. I am sure a 21w T5 will cost next to nothing. You could set up a little area for clones once you start to flower these. top shelf of a cupboard or closet maybe. Perpetual rotation would serve you well. Flower>clone>veg clones>harvest>flower vegged Clones, rinse and repeat. Growing one or two plants at a time should produce enough personal stash for a two smoker household. I have never had the patience for vegging and flowering in the same area but it is certainly doable.

I helped a mate of mine setup a little grow with one plant. https://www.rollitup.org/t/a-little-project-to-pass-the-time.909832/

My veg tent has seedlings/clones under a canopy of larger vegging plant so they get just the right amount of light to give them a good start. As they mature space is made available because the larger plants are flowered and the cycle is in constant motion. Every watt is used as efficiently as I can. Not because I am an awesome grower but because I pay for that juice and I want a return on money spent.

I do not know what the sentencing laws are like where you live, where I'm at plant numbers count. If you are living in the same house that you had the "big knock" in it would be prudent to keep the count as low as possible. I do not keep mothers. I clone the plants I am flowering. I stay within sentencing guidelines in my country that are used to determine Hobby grows from intent to supply grows.

Bit of a ramble but I hope it helps.

Cheers,
Will
 
edgein123

edgein123

Well-Known Member
Will Thayer said:
So 4 x CXB3590 @ 700ma is about 23w a sq ft. PPFD is around 660 or in old measuring about 19000 lumens divide by 4 is 4750 lumens per sq ft.
That is quite a bit for seedlings in their first week or two of life. You could easily flower with that amount of light over 4 sq ft.

I would maybe try 2ft or more even. They just do not need such intensity that early. You are most likely drawing 100w from the wall when a 21w cool white T5 or two would do just as well. I am sure a 21w T5 will cost next to nothing. You could set up a little area for clones once you start to flower these. top shelf of a cupboard or closet maybe. Perpetual rotation would serve you well. Flower>clone>veg clones>harvest>flower vegged Clones, rinse and repeat. Growing one or two plants at a time should produce enough personal stash for a two smoker household. I have never had the patience for vegging and flowering in the same area but it is certainly doable.

I helped a mate of mine setup a little grow with one plant. https://www.rollitup.org/t/a-little-project-to-pass-the-time.909832/

My veg tent has seedlings/clones under a canopy of larger vegging plant so they get just the right amount of light to give them a good start. As they mature space is made available because the larger plants are flowered and the cycle is in constant motion. Every watt is used as efficiently as I can. Not because I am an awesome grower but because I pay for that juice and I want a return on money spent.

I do not know what the sentencing laws are like where you live, where I'm at plant numbers count. If you are living in the same house that you had the "big knock" in it would be prudent to keep the count as low as possible. I do not keep mothers. I clone the plants I am flowering. I stay within sentencing guidelines in my country that are used to determine Hobby grows from intent to supply grows.

Bit of a ramble but I hope it helps.

Cheers,
Will
Click to expand...
Yo bro,

Once more, much appreciated!

I'm loving the perpetual rotation idea, just trying to figure out the timings for this type of setup. Would a plastic dome/aquarium like do for cuttings? I'd like to minimize space and effort used.
Will cutting from a flowering plant, let's say in it's 5th week of flowering, be fine? the idea is to get that rotation running so once the clones are ready for vegging they go in when the last cycle was harvested already.


BTW, I'm not from the US so..
 
Will Thayer

Will Thayer

Well-Known Member
edgein123 said:
Yo bro,Once more, much appreciated!
Click to expand...
It is my pleasure, helping you helps me.:grin:

edgein123 said:
I'm loving the perpetual rotation idea, just trying to figure out the timings for this type of setup. Would a plastic dome/aquarium like do for cuttings? I'd like to minimize space and effort used.
Click to expand...
I have seen aquariums used no problem. They are kind of heavy though and accessible from the top. On a shelf in a closet that could suck. A better option that will not break the bank is a propagator http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/heated-propagator I do not know what region of the world you are in so this link is from UK. You get the idea though. Anything that keeps the humidity high is a winner.


edgein123 said:
Will cutting from a flowering plant, let's say in it's 5th week of flowering, be fine? the idea is to get that rotation running so once the clones are ready for vegging they go in when the last cycle was harvested.
Click to expand...
Not ideal but not impossible. Three weeks would be better.They will take longer to root (two-three weeks) so factor that into your schedule. It will also take them time to switch from producing calyxes (buds) to growing leaves again. You will see the first new growth as a single leaf instead of full fan leaves.

Take more cuttings then you need from the lower area of the plant (less woody stems). You are not guaranteed all the cuts will root so factor in a failure rate. Use 18/6 or 24 hour lighting schedule for the clones. It will take a bit of practice and observation to get the timing right but after you do it will be smooth sailing.

Google monster cropping for more in depth tutorials. Give your rooted clones a week or two of growth or longer depending on the size you wish to flower at. This will give them a chance to build a robust root system and fill out a bit. I recently built a little veg light using Cree XML2 from Fasttech.com which is more effecient than a T5 and cheap/easy to do. https://www.rollitup.org/t/upcycled-veg-light-some-time-killed.915811/#post-12804833

So a rough schedule would look something like this with a strain flowering time estimate of 8 weeks.

Begin flowering until week three of flowering take cuttings. >Clones will take 2 - 3 weeks to root(remember to take more than you need). Depending on when they root you will be in week 5 - 6 of flowering. Take rooted clones out of propagator and let them fill out and revert back to vegetative growth for the next two to three weeks of the 8 week flowering. Harvest your flowering crop and start to flower your clones. Then do it all over again.8) The timing is fluid and be prepared to adjust things here and there but growing is not about the latest fancy technology or techniques. It's about observing your plants and reacting to what you see. Your real "yield" from your first grow is experience. Any dry weight you end up with is a bonus.:D

Cheers,
Will
 
edgein123

edgein123

Well-Known Member
That definitely sounds like a plan and sounds like it's easily doable.

I keep telling my gf, if we come out with an oz, I'm more than happy.

I try to invest as little as I can as I'm only growing bag genetics and not fancy seeds as I'll never order them ever again.

Btw, I raised lights to around 50cm and they seem fine.. the 3 leafed one is really loving it, the other two just seem a tad slower but this kinda makes me think those will be females based on my outdoor experience.

Let me know if I'm on the right track here, but the master plan is vegging for approx. a month (3-5) plants from seed, try keeping them as wide and low as I can with training and bending and then flower.
Any other technique you can particulary recommend for that size a tent?

And again, thank you!!
 
Will Thayer

Will Thayer

Well-Known Member
edgein123 said:
That definitely sounds like a plan and sounds like it's easily doable.
I keep telling my gf, if we come out with an oz, I'm more than happy.I try to invest as little as I can as I'm only growing bag genetics and not fancy seeds as I'll never order them ever again.
Click to expand...
Bag seed in 1980s was bad. In 2016 not so much. Folks have been breeding and improving cannabis for a long time. Was the cannabis that you got the seeds from any good? If it was decent it will be a whole lot cheaper this time around.:D If it was grown indoors chances are they are from a hermie and should be all female.
You do not have to throw a bunch of coin into growing. Cover the basics of Light, grow medium, air exchange and stealth (Smell, light leaks, fire hazards,unannounced visitors ) There are always options for every budget. You have an excellent light and tent plus circulation/ exhaust fans. You can upgrade or pick up things along the way.

edgein123 said:
Let me know if I'm on the right track here, but the master plan is vegging for approx. a month (3-5) plants from seed, try keeping them as wide and low as I can with training and bending and then flower.
Any other technique you can particularly recommend for that size a tent?
Click to expand...
Part of the learning curve will be knowing what size your plants get in a certain amount of time. You have the gist of it though spread them out and form a linear canopy so your plant gets the most from your light.

I am certain you will be successful you have researched for awhile now and you're asking questions to fill in the gaps from your outdoor grow experience. It is in the actual doing that will take your skills to the next level. The only other recommendation that I can not stress enough is due to your previous legal issues keep your plant numbers low. A four square foot grow space will not be hard to fill with a minimum number of plants.


Cheers,
Will
 
edgein123

edgein123

Well-Known Member
Howdy there again bro,

Short question, it seems that everyone are asking how they can shorten internode spacing, but it seems like the 3 leaf girl (hopefully) is like really really short on its internode length, she just stays real short, can short spacing be something bad or is it generally (even if the nodal spacing are really short) a good thing?

I'm guessing the flower stretch will help the budsites make some room and I'll surely defoliate some, but I've never had any experience with indoor lighting and it almost seems like those CXBs are too good to be true! At least based on how my gals look. But then again, I dunno if that can also be a bad thing.

Any help (mostly directed at Will :)) always appreciated!

I might tempt myself into taking a picture tomorrow so.. :P

BTW, lights are 24/0 are approx. 20-23" above the plants.
 
cuddlesthesheep

cuddlesthesheep

Well-Known Member
edgein123 said:
Well, it's quite a long story but sure..

I ordered some seeds and grew some nice bud from those, simple outdoor grow, my house owner didn't seem to care and so did my neighbors who were around my age.. All went fine, so comes winter, I'm like.. okay, let's order some more beans.

When I went to pick up the package from the post office 3 undercover detectives awaited me outside and picked me up, my girlfriend actually dropped me off the post office and from there to her office.
They had already set up a search team at my lil 40m Sq apartment including 2 dogs and whatnot, they even had interns to see how big a catch they got and how criminals live (being very cynical).

They were quite amazed to see no lights in the closets or anything and only chopped down tree in my garden, it's like they were actually amazed that plants grow under the sun, pff. I just pointed them to everything as I'm no trouble maker (I started a new job 6 months before that as an IT technician subcontractor), they asked who lives with me and obviously I said she had nothing to do with it and she didn't know anything (they didn't even bother doing more, I kept her clean while her CC was the one who paid for the beans, this is how stupid they are).

So they arrested me, spent 4 days in a prison cell because the trial just kept being delayed to eventually be released and accused for importing illegal substances, dealing with illegal substances and holding tools for a creation of illegal substances (my grinder and rolling papers).

With the help of a lawyer that cost me a fortune I kept clean for 6 months to be able to show them I'm a 'normal' person which eventually helped in trial.

This went on for 4 years across 6 trials to be reduced to self use and only giving 200 hours in community service, I actually met a new friend and helped him feel better with his life, this was someone who tried to commit suicide and broke his 2 arms and legs.

Needless to say, after the 1st 6 months I've kept smoking regularly, and so did my g/f, I will not even get into what this did to our relationship (her parents, and mine and that whole drama), but we're good now and getting towards setting roots and making a family.

I hope everyone that reads this and had a similar experience will understand why I'm taking a risk growing again - we let em scare us, they win.

I'm the perfect example of a normal average 9 to 9 working person that happens to love smoking as an escape from a hard day's work. I think the world is coming to realize just that, keep it up, we will win.

Hope that wasn't too long for ya'll.

Happy growing. Stay strong!
Click to expand...
What terrible state was this in?
 
edgein123

edgein123

Well-Known Member
Little bump.

Super short internodes on a short plant? Good/bad? Result of the COBs intensive light? No dark period?

Also, is it possible that I'm underfeeding as the light is taking up more energy from the gals?

It seems like a 1/4 strength biobizz grow (0.25ml per l) followed by 1/2 strength today won't clear out an N deficiency..

Also, as I'm reading a lot of things about CalMag being used more under COBs, should I incorporate that as well? I didn't have all those problems outdoors.

It's also getting super hard describing what's happening in there without any pictures but I trust the professionals could give good estimates.

Thanks!
 
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