flushing,when do i do it?

1djwesty

Active Member
I'm exactly 4 weeks into flowering on my 10 cheese plants using a 2 metre grow tent with 600 watt HPS light.The pistills are just starting to wither and go a slightly off white colour.What i need to know is what is flushing?I've been told you maybe have to flush a plant if it's overnutriented or if you have other problems but should you run clean water with no nutrients as part of the growing cycle?Would it be suffice to say that i should start giving nothing but clean water in approx a 10 days or so.If the plant has about another three weeks before harvesting it's gotta be done soon right?
Now,this flushing,is it just a case of watering the plants with clean water and that's it only I've watched some youtube vids and these guys have their plants in the bath pouring litres of clean water into the pots,what's that all about.Ok,if it is only a matter of giving nutrient free water should this be the last few waterings of the plant before it gets harvested?
:leaf:
 

jtrimbl3

Active Member
i flush mine with double whatever i feed it regularly . Example: Water1: nutes Water 2: Water/Epsom Salt Water 3: Nutes Water 4: Flush. Works perfect for me.
 

1djwesty

Active Member
Wicked!!!!!!!!!!You've just answered my question,2 weeks approx yea?So,I'm looking at next week to stop the nutes maybe(judging by the colour the pistills).Ordered myself a little jewellers magnifying glass off of ebay just now so that i can see the colour of the trichomes.
Man I'm gettin' impatient,this grow has seemed like forever as it's my first one.I just wanna rip off some buds and put 'em in the microwave and smoke the shit outta them(I won't though,i've come this far and only had one tester last week and I couldn't even string a sentence together afterwards).
Many thanks.
Oh,nearly forgot.This "flush",is it just a case of watering the plants as normal but with no nutes?None of this putting the plants in the bath and pouring copius amounts of water through the pot.
 

jtrimbl3

Active Member
patience is the last thing learned by all new growers. If you haven't flushed within these first four weeks, i would on your next watering.
 

Farfenugen

Well-Known Member
Always after you shit, but yep, two weeks is good. You can't go wrong, but patience is a virtue.
And don't forget to wash your hands
 

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
Think about it, starve your plants for 2 weeks before you chop Hummmmmmm I have a big problem with that, farmers don't do it, greenhouses don't do it. This is an old leftover issue for the 90's when ferts were shit.

But if you must flush than flush with 25% nutrients as this will help move all the elements out. If you just use water most elements are interdependent so when say N is gone Mag and P lock up. There is a lot of science in growing and lots to read if you want to be the best grower you can.

I put the summery first, It is also backed up by science links attached.


Summary:

Pre-harvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are losing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with pre-harvest flushing.

For one thing, the most common way that growers flush their crops is by giving their crops water that has no nutrients in it. But this doesn't fully cleanse your crops. It only starves your plants so they lose vigorous floral growth and resin percentages just before harvest. Other growers use flushing formulas that generally consist of a few chemicals that sometimes have the ability to pull a limited amount of residues out of your plants.


Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavour of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulphur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is needed for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.


Not all nutrient compounds are movable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=jeb+biologists+org+pdf&channel=linkdoctor

Trans-location:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the trans-location process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be trans located through the phloem. Immobile elements can’t be trans located and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the root-zone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Trans-location is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins; most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulphur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.

http://muextension.missouri.edu

Summary:

Pre-harvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are losing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with pre-harvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on un-flushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or over fertilization and improper drying/curing.
 

1djwesty

Active Member
Nice lol.Thanks for all of your advice.Oh,and i'll try not to forget to wash my hands.My mummy brought me up to be a clean boy!
 

1djwesty

Active Member
Oh my god!Now i'm totally confused.I think that the best thing to do with all of these conflicting opinions is just to reduce on the nutes over the next couple of weeks until the final week which will be just clean water rather than just stop the nutes totally and a chance of maybe shocking the plants.
 

1djwesty

Active Member
I'm in soil,Biobizz Allmix.18 litre pots.10 cheese,10 blue cheese.I messed up cos apparently the blue cheese plants have to be topped to get optimum yield which I read about after i put them into flower so the cola's aren't that big yet.Maybe they'll swell out who knows.What i did do as an experiment was to top two of the cheese plants two days before flowering and the colas are huge.They've joined together to make a massive single one.Well pleased!
I had 10 spare cheese seeds about 1 week into veg growth in a veg tent which i was going to follow on with after the main crop in the other tent was harvested but decided to stop the grow because my electricity usage was going through the roof.What i did do instead of discarding them was to put them straight into the flowering tent in six inch pots to see what would happen.To my pleasant surprise,i now have plants 6 inches high and covered in massive buds.Don't know what the strength's gonna be like but hey,who cares,it's a learning curve:-)
 

Dank Hands

Active Member
Yeah bro flushing vs. not flushing is one of the biggest debates on here. Jorge cervantes says to layoff nutes for a couple weeks before harvest. Your plants use up everything in your leaves and soil and a lot of the water leaves turn super yellow and fall off ime. Ive also seen grows where people feed em all the way to the end and they notice no difference except the leaves look healther at chop time. I still dont feed em near the end, but whatever you choose dont worry about it too much.
 

spitsbuds

Well-Known Member
remeber this youre plants do have nutes saved up. so doping ppm ec ect slowly over 2 weeks will help the plant eat up its saved nutes as there is not enough in the medium. but keep some there. its a thinline by feeding just enough for the plant to do this with out completely starving it i cut down from 1.8 ec to just boost. but this time im trying 2 days in the dark with just water or maybe slight amount of boost still
 
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