Forcing Specific Nutrient deficiencies - How can you do it?

My friends and I are doing research on Nutrient deficiencies. Our goal is to create a comprehensive database of information on nutrient deficiencies that growers can use and contribute to. Once specific deficiencies are forced, very useful data can be collected and interpreted. Our experiments will not exactly be lab rigorous but they should be pretty damn good. My question is how can we force specific deficiencies? Some deficiencies are easy to force like Nitrogen or Potassium, but others like Zinc or Boron seem more difficult to control and measure.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

don,t know bumb

It has been done in terms of there is some pretty comprehensive info out there on how various nutrient deficiencies are exhibited by cannabis plants. Examples include the book Marijuana Garden Saver: Handbook for Healthy Plants, and there are several threads on forums that have pretty much the same information including pictures.

To answer your question anyways; you would need a very non-nutritive medium (ie: rockwool) and a 12 part nutrient system (quite expensive). It is simple, in principle. But, (and no offense here) if you are asking this question; how comprehensively do you expect to be able to collect this data let alone analyze it?

Firstly you would need to perfect growing conditions and a huge supply of genetically identical clones - your results have to be related to the specific deficiency that you are identifying, not related to watering, ph level, lighting, temperature, co2 levels ... and the list goes on.

Once you are certain that your results will reflect a specific deficiency, you will need to modify your nutrient recipe to increase, decrease and exclude specific components and/or combinations of components.

I'll give you my basic 2 part nutrient (vegging) recipe as a starting point:

Part A. (5ml per litre water)

Epsom's Salts - 100.00g
Borax - 1.20 g
Manganese Sulphate - 0.40 g
Zinc Sulphate - 0.12 g
Copper Sulphate - 0.04 g
Ammonium Molybdate - 0.04 g
Table Salt - 0.04 g
Iron Chelate - 5.00 g
Mono Ammonium Phosphate - 80.00 g
Potassium Nitrate - 240.00 g
Water to 2 litres


Part B. (5ml per litre of water)

Calcium Nitrate - 400.0g
Water to 2 litres

Believe me when I tell you that some of the above are damn expensive and difficult to obtain.

Have fun with your project ... better still just have another bong and don't bother re-inventing the wheel.

G.O.D.

^Exactly... but then we have to keep in mind that with some of the compounds listed above you could be satisfying for more than one nutrient. It would be difficult to have a sulfur deficient plant if you are using epsom salts to provide for its magnesium, along with zinc sulphate and copper sulphate. Calcium nitrate provides both calcium and nitrogen, of course. Potassium nitrate has nitrogen and potassium. Mono ammonium phosphate has nitrogen, too.


You might want to get this book...
http://books.google.com/books?id=GP1caeWDUWkC&lpg=PP1&dq=The Fertilizer Encyclopedia&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false

Or screw the book, for now... this seems like it could help you a hell of a lot to get started, awesome resource anyways though. It lists N, P, K, Ca, Mg, S and calcium carbonate equivalents for inorganic nutrients and N, P, K, Ca, Mg, S and Cl for organic nutrients. P and K are listed as if they where in the forms phosphorous oxide and potassium oxide.
http://www.soil.ncsu.edu/publications/Soilfacts/AG-439-18/

Thanks for the help guys. More than anything I wanted to start this project to learn about how deficiencies occur. The number of variables that contribute to deficiencies obviously makes this a difficult subject but I believe doing experiments, while reading supplemental literature is the best way to learn. Diagnosing your plant is like trying to diagnose yourself when your sick. Have you ever checked the internet for symptoms when you feel sick? Ive probably had HIV a dozen times in my mind. With plants its the same thing.

Ive done some basic experiments using DWC. Since DWC is basically pure nutrient solution with minimal medium it should be easier to isolate and control deficiencies.

Experiment #1 - I grew a plant out to about 24" tall using advanced 2 part. Once the plant was healthy I removed the N by switching to a 3part nutrient without the N. I couldnt believe how long it took for the N-Def to occur.

GRUMPYOLDDREAMER - How much and where the hell can I find these?

NULLIS - I understand your concern about my data analysis ability but in my defense I have done academic research before. I think if I get the correct 12-part nutrient and I read enough literature I can figure it out. I will be using DWC with Hydroton so my medium will be almost completely inert. Thanks for the book suggestions, ill crack into them right away.

NULLIS - I just followed those links you gave me..... damn thats some great info. Once you start to really look into nutrient absorption in plants you start to realize how non-rigorous the hydroponic industry has become. That industry is completely unregulated. They could be selling us anything!!!!!

GRUMPYOLDDREAMER - How much and where the hell can I find these?

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I'm in Australia so my sources would probably not be relevant to you.

Most of the items can be obtained from a good gardening supply store. The Ammonium Molybdate was not easy to locate and I had to buy their minimum quantity of 100g. When 2 litres of concentrated nutrient needs only 0.04g you can imaging how long 100g will last me.

The nitrates were bought from a bulk chemical depot, had to sign all sorts of declarations in order to buy the stuff ... something to do with they can be used to make explosives, and especially when buying 20 kg bags

I bought all the chemicals so that I could grow veggies hydroponically and if anyone checked on my usage of the chemicals they would be satisfied that all is legit ... I don't need to show them all of my plants.

G.O.D.

They could be selling us anything!!!!!

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At least I know what is in my nutrient solutions, and, although I said that the ingredients were expensive, it works out very cheap in the long run.

2 litres each of my solution A & B costs a total od $2.75 (ozzie dollars) and this makes 800 litres of nutrient.

How much is commercial nutrient by the way?

G.O.D.

G.O.D - Im not sure what they charge for commercial nutrients but in local hydro stores a 2-part nutrient runs around $30/4L. Your cost is about 1/10 of what I pay at the hydro store. Damn I need to make my own stuff. By the way check out my website so you'll get an idea of what im trying to do with the Nute Deficiency experiments.

www.cannagen.com

Firstly you would need to perfect growing conditions and a huge supply of genetically identical clones - your results have to be related to the specific deficiency that you are identifying, not related to watering, ph level, lighting, temperature, co2 levels ... and the list goes on.

Once you are certain that your results will reflect a specific deficiency, you will need to modify your nutrient recipe to increase, decrease and exclude specific components and/or combinations of components.

Click to expand...

I have genetically identical clones. I can control watering level, PH, atmosphere and CO2. The difficult part is to control the "combinations of nutrients" you mentioned above. Im game for the challenge. Wish me luck.