having trouble starting seeds in coco

ebenezerfagglegold

ebenezerfagglegold

Active Member
so after doing a 4 month battle with myself vs. miracle gro, I decided to go the coco/perlite route this time. I figured having total control over the nutrient contents would make things easier than the guesswork surrounding pre-ferted soil and all that. I still feel that way, BUT I'm having trouble getting off the ground. I've already lost 5 seeds to damping off, and by that I mean the seedlings falling over under their own weight after a day or two or breaching the soil. What I've tried this time is rinsing the medium with a 1tbsp per quart hydrogen peroxide solution, but I'm still coming up with damping off and other weird stuff, like in the picture. That one looks like it made it through so far, but has moldy leaves. UGh!

I started using a humidity dome/heat mat incubator thing I bought, but have since re-thought that idea, because if my problem is 'damping off', then having the dampest environment possible doesn't sound like any solution. I guess I should also mention that they are damping off whether germinated right there in the coco, or in a paper towel. Whether humidity dome is on or off with a fan blowing fresh air around. And it shouldn't be overwatering because the 4" containers have plenty of drainage and they do it after only the 1st watering. Sounds like contaminated coco right??

Has anyone experienced this or know of a way to stop this crap? I'm going to run out of seeds soon. I've heard putting the coco in the oven at 200 for 45 minutes is good, but ive already mixed it all up with perlite. would this make a difference in the oven?
 

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Gramaw49

Gramaw49

Member
You said you've been arguing with yourself about using miracle grow vs.coco? Soil growers should NEVER use miracle grow, imo. I've never started seeds in anything other than a nice organic seed starter soil (I pop them in a paper towel then plant in soil under a dome with a regular light bulb indirectly pointed over that dome, for heat) As soon as the seedling pokes itself out of the soil with the initial two leaves, I remove it from the dome and give it 24/0 light. I mist it daily and keep the soil damp until it sprouts its next set of leaves, then I back off on water and mist. 100% success with this method. If I've ever lost a seeding, it's been due to negligence on my part in the execution of the plan -- not the plan itself.

Are your plants stretching? You said they fall over. I've only known that to happen when they stretch too quickly, which means your light source is too far away.

Could you start them in a clean seed-starter soil and then move them to coco, if you want to go that way?
 
weedenhanced

weedenhanced

Well-Known Member
ebenezerfagglegold said:
so after doing a 4 month battle with myself vs. miracle gro, I decided to go the coco/perlite route this time. I figured having total control over the nutrient contents would make things easier than the guesswork surrounding pre-ferted soil and all that. I still feel that way, BUT I'm having trouble getting off the ground. I've already lost 5 seeds to damping off, and by that I mean the seedlings falling over under their own weight after a day or two or breaching the soil. What I've tried this time is rinsing the medium with a 1tbsp per quart hydrogen peroxide solution, but I'm still coming up with damping off and other weird stuff, like in the picture. That one looks like it made it through so far, but has moldy leaves. UGh!

I started using a humidity dome/heat mat incubator thing I bought, but have since re-thought that idea, because if my problem is 'damping off', then having the dampest environment possible doesn't sound like any solution. I guess I should also mention that they are damping off whether germinated right there in the coco, or in a paper towel. Whether humidity dome is on or off with a fan blowing fresh air around. And it shouldn't be overwatering because the 4" containers have plenty of drainage and they do it after only the 1st watering. Sounds like contaminated coco right??

Has anyone experienced this or know of a way to stop this crap? I'm going to run out of seeds soon. I've heard putting the coco in the oven at 200 for 45 minutes is good, but ive already mixed it all up with perlite. would this make a difference in the oven?
Click to expand...
My 100% method is this any medium I germ paper towel when root is 1 cm long I plant straight into jiffy pellet then put that pellet straight into my soil or medium the straight under my 400w mh dimmed to 200w this method has worked 100% of all germed seeds within 3 days I norm have my seedling popee and going strong20140517_150050.jpg
 
ebenezerfagglegold

ebenezerfagglegold

Active Member
no i said i did battle with miracle gro. yeah I know all about miracle grow now, I'll never touch it again. um, I don't think they're stretching, if I moved the light any closer they'll definitely get burned by it, it's a fluorescent tube about 6 inches away. Look at photo #2. No stretching certainly, that thing has looked like that for 3 days, same with pic 1 really. no stretching. Thanks for the reply though, I've got some jiffy pellets I was thinking about starting them in, but it just seems like everything would be fine as long as I disinfect this coco. See damping off is caused by a fungus that thrives in wetness. I've been adding h2o2 to all my water now I'm just really curious about the moldy looking leaves in photo num 1 and if perlite(100% perlite btw) is okay to throw in the oven, or if it will pop or act some crazy way when I do bake this stuff.

its weird because ive never had a problem with seedlings until this. and the coco seems like literally the best thing to germinate these in, its so soft and holds water so well. So here's the solution I'm trying as of now: I literally squeezed the water out of the pots, flushed them with h2o2, squeezed excess water out again. Let sit for 1 day. Germinate in paper towel. add germinated seed to disinfected coco. Pour a cap of water/starter mix in, but barely get it wet. I've done this already on one so we'll see if it works. The problem is obviously contaminated coco/fungus.

Anyone know about these jiffy pellets? never used one? It says on the bag that they're made out of composted tree bark. Would it make sense to put a seed rooted in a jiffy pellet into coco coir? Or would the change of environment shock the young plant?
weedenhanced said:
My 100% method is this any medium I germ paper towel when root is 1 cm long I plant straight into jiffy pellet then put that pellet straight into my soil or medium the straight under my 400w mh dimmed to 200w this method has worked 100% of all germed seeds within 3 days I norm have my seedling popee and going strongView attachment 3211417
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yeah, ive got one going in a jiffy pellet just to see if that works. I REALLY am concerned that the coco is contaminated and am really wondering about strategies for disinfecting coco, but it also could just be that the stuff holds water SO well that the 'good watering' I am used to giving seedlings at first is not necessarily a good idea for coco.
 
weedenhanced

weedenhanced

Well-Known Member
ebenezerfagglegold said:
no i said i did battle with miracle gro. yeah I know all about miracle grow now, I'll never touch it again. um, I don't think they're stretching, if I moved the light any closer they'll definitely get burned by it, it's a fluorescent tube about 6 inches away. Look at photo #2. No stretching certainly, that thing has looked like that for 3 days, same with pic 1 really. no stretching. Thanks for the reply though, I've got some jiffy pellets I was thinking about starting them in, but it just seems like everything would be fine as long as I disinfect this coco. See damping off is caused by a fungus that thrives in wetness. I've been adding h2o2 to all my water now I'm just really curious about the moldy looking leaves in photo num 1 and if perlite(100% perlite btw) is okay to throw in the oven, or if it will pop or act some crazy way when I do bake this stuff.

its weird because ive never had a problem with seedlings until this. and the coco seems like literally the best thing to germinate these in, its so soft and holds water so well. So here's the solution I'm trying as of now: I literally squeezed the water out of the pots, flushed them with h2o2, squeezed excess water out again. Let sit for 1 day. Germinate in paper towel. add germinated seed to disinfected coco. Pour a cap of water/starter mix in, but barely get it wet. I've done this already on one so we'll see if it works. The problem is obviously contaminated coco/fungus.

Anyone know about these jiffy pellets? never used one? It says on the bag that they're made out of composted tree bark. Would it make sense to put a seed rooted in a jiffy pellet into coco coir? Or would the change of environment shock the young plant?


yeah, ive got one going in a jiffy pellet just to see if that works. I REALLY am concerned that the coco is contaminated and am really wondering about strategies for disinfecting coco, but it also could just be that the stuff holds water SO well that the 'good watering' I am used to giving seedlings at first is not necessarily a good idea for coco.
Click to expand...
Dont water seedling wet the jiffy plant the jiffy before the seed pops out then water very sparsly
 
AirAnt

AirAnt

Well-Known Member
ebenezerfagglegold said:
no i said i did battle with miracle gro. yeah I know all about miracle grow now, I'll never touch it again. um, I don't think they're stretching, if I moved the light any closer they'll definitely get burned by it, it's a fluorescent tube about 6 inches away. Look at photo #2. No stretching certainly, that thing has looked like that for 3 days, same with pic 1 really. no stretching. Thanks for the reply though, I've got some jiffy pellets I was thinking about starting them in, but it just seems like everything would be fine as long as I disinfect this coco. See damping off is caused by a fungus that thrives in wetness. I've been adding h2o2 to all my water now I'm just really curious about the moldy looking leaves in photo num 1 and if perlite(100% perlite btw) is okay to throw in the oven, or if it will pop or act some crazy way when I do bake this stuff.

its weird because ive never had a problem with seedlings until this. and the coco seems like literally the best thing to germinate these in, its so soft and holds water so well. So here's the solution I'm trying as of now: I literally squeezed the water out of the pots, flushed them with h2o2, squeezed excess water out again. Let sit for 1 day. Germinate in paper towel. add germinated seed to disinfected coco. Pour a cap of water/starter mix in, but barely get it wet. I've done this already on one so we'll see if it works. The problem is obviously contaminated coco/fungus.

Anyone know about these jiffy pellets? never used one? It says on the bag that they're made out of composted tree bark. Would it make sense to put a seed rooted in a jiffy pellet into coco coir? Or would the change of environment shock the young plant?


yeah, ive got one going in a jiffy pellet just to see if that works. I REALLY am concerned that the coco is contaminated and am really wondering about strategies for disinfecting coco, but it also could just be that the stuff holds water SO well that the 'good watering' I am used to giving seedlings at first is not necessarily a good idea for coco.
Click to expand...
I've germinated in jiffy peat plugs and transplanted into coco. It was coco mixed with potting soil, but it worked fine. Gives the plant a really solid rootball, too.

I was going to say your problem reminds me of the first time I used rockwool. I didn't know it had to be soaked in nutrient solution so all 10 seeds popped, grew for a day, then keeled over and died. Sounds just like what you're describing.
 
ebenezerfagglegold

ebenezerfagglegold

Active Member
AirAnt said:
I've germinated in jiffy peat plugs and transplanted into coco. It was coco mixed with potting soil, but it worked fine. Gives the plant a really solid rootball, too.

I was going to say your problem reminds me of the first time I used rockwool. I didn't know it had to be soaked in nutrient solution so all 10 seeds popped, grew for a day, then keeled over and died. Sounds just like what you're describing.
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yep that's exactly whats happening, ill definitely keep all of this in mind, thanks. I have 2 that have been out and standing straight for like 5 days now so maybe I'm over the hump with them, I've got 1 in a peat pellet soaked in nutrient solution, then another in coco that had 2 baths in h2o2 then nutrient solution. Both of I just planted today so we'll just have to wait and see.

Anyone ever seen moldy leaves like in the first pic in the OP?
 
Deputydank

Deputydank

Active Member
ebenezerfagglegold said:
yep that's exactly whats happening, ill definitely keep all of this in mind, thanks. I have 2 that have been out and standing straight for like 5 days now so maybe I'm over the hump with them, I've got 1 in a peat pellet soaked in nutrient solution, then another in coco that had 2 baths in h2o2 then nutrient solution. Both of I just planted today so we'll just have to wait and see.

Anyone ever seen moldy leaves like in the first pic in the OP?
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So how are the seedlings looking now? Inquiring minds with similar problems want to know.
 
ebenezerfagglegold

ebenezerfagglegold

Active Member
well here's what I came up with after a lot of trial and error. basically I landed on this:

-wash the coco with warm water. wash it and wash it some more. then put it in the oven for a few hours at 250 or so.
-germinate seeds in paper towels and then place in a jiffy peat pellet. peat oellet seems to help the little roots grow to a point where they have a chance in the coco environment.
-jiffy pellet into small container with coco/perlite solution. I'm having better results in solo cups than in 4" containers.
-water with 6.5ph warm water through until it comes out the bottom. water every 3 or4 days when coco is drying out.

that's where I am now. I'm about to start adding nutes so let me know if you're interested in what happens at that point.
 

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sgtjayne

sgtjayne

Member
What brand of coco are you using? That could have a lot to do with you problems, I cheaped out on coco one grow and it was the worst stuff ever. I won't do that again, get a quality coco, something you don't have to rinse or bake.
 
ebenezerfagglegold

ebenezerfagglegold

Active Member
yeah its this stuff called 'natures footprint.' I lost like 11 seeds to damping off before I hit it with hydrogen peroxide, washed, and baked it. It still didn't work until I started the seeds in jiffy pellets. I have 2 bricks of general hydro cocotek that I haven't opened yet. I'm thinking of using this 'natures footprint' stuff as an amendment only with some organic soil. It seems like it would be ok If it had some soil to back it up. I'm going to try the cocotek stuff in a hydro when im through with this nonsense.
 
Deputydank

Deputydank

Active Member
ebenezerfagglegold said:
well here's what I came up with after a lot of trial and error. basically I landed on this:

-wash the coco with warm water. wash it and wash it some more. then put it in the oven for a few hours at 250 or so.
-germinate seeds in paper towels and then place in a jiffy peat pellet. peat oellet seems to help the little roots grow to a point where they have a chance in the coco environment.
-jiffy pellet into small container with coco/perlite solution. I'm having better results in solo cups than in 4" containers.
-water with 6.5ph warm water through until it comes out the bottom. water every 3 or4 days when coco is drying out.

that's where I am now. I'm about to start adding nutes so let me know if you're interested in what happens at that point.
Click to expand...

So the Coco your using for those little thriving seedlings is the same Coco that you had all the damping off problems with? Sounds like just a good ol fashioned wash n bake took care of whatever spores were in it? I was planning on doing the jiffy pellet as well. Did u use some sort of humidity dome over the pellet or what? Thanks for the update bro and goodluck. Please do post some updated pics, Ide like to watch them grow. Cheers!
 
U

urban1026835

Well-Known Member
I would say i plant im coco 90+% of the time with 95+% success.

i do rinse the coco first, then run phd tap (de chlorinated) + a dash of epsom through before i fill whatever small yogurt cup sized container and plant directly into coco with no perlite...I found without adding perlite the coco will stay moist untill they sprout most times.

no need for a dome as it dampens off for me this way.

anyways hope that helps.
 
Deputydank

Deputydank

Active Member
urban1026835 said:
I would say i plant im coco 90+% of the time with 95+% success.

i do rinse the coco first, then run phd tap (de chlorinated) + a dash of epsom through before i fill whatever small yogurt cup sized container and plant directly into coco with no perlite...I found without adding perlite the coco will stay moist untill they sprout most times.

no need for a dome as it dampens off for me this way.

anyways hope that helps.
Click to expand...
Will simply rinsing the Coco thoroughly wash out whatever damping off pathogens are in the coco straight out of the bag? Is baking the shit really necessary? I have a bag of cocotek Coco and have lost 4 expensive NL seeds to damping off already.

I used paper towel method and then planted into unrinsed Coco with a little perlite mix. 2 inches later....dead ladies and a sad deputy.
 
ebenezerfagglegold

ebenezerfagglegold

Active Member
yeah it seems like washing the coco hardcore plus letting the roots get started in a peat pellet did the trick. some coco comes for de-salted than others, that's at least part of the problem washing takes care of. the damping was probably fungus or the fact that planting straight into coco kept the roots too wet.
 
U

urban1026835

Well-Known Member
Deputydank said:
Will simply rinsing the Coco thoroughly wash out whatever damping off pathogens are in the coco straight out of the bag? Is baking the shit really necessary? I have a bag of cocotek Coco and have lost 4 expensive NL seeds to damping off already.

I used paper towel method and then planted into unrinsed Coco with a little perlite mix. 2 inches later....dead ladies and a sad deputy.
Click to expand...
i have NEVER baked my coco....mainly because it's or I am too messy to deal with it. Plus I have had zero problems with cocogro or cocotek in the bricks....some say it's inferior but I cannot tell.

So yeah straight off the brick flush for awhile...found this is easiest to just put some in a smart pot and set under the faucet..

then I run some phd tap through it that has been sitting out for 24 hours or more and I usually fill either shot glasses or old yogurt cups..something around that general size and plant straight to moist coco no problems.

no reason other then it's what works for me in my environment. Plus a couple years back I lost some nice gear by forgetting about some soaking beans...this way I do not have that problem and is why i place my planted seeds down low in my flower tent under the canopy. This way even if i forget I will see them daily.
 
H

harris hawk

Well-Known Member
ebenezerfagglegold said:
so after doing a 4 month battle with myself vs. miracle gro, I decided to go the coco/perlite route this time. I figured having total control over the nutrient contents would make things easier than the guesswork surrounding pre-ferted soil and all that. I still feel that way, BUT I'm having trouble getting off the ground. I've already lost 5 seeds to damping off, and by that I mean the seedlings falling over under their own weight after a day or two or breaching the soil. What I've tried this time is rinsing the medium with a 1tbsp per quart hydrogen peroxide solution, but I'm still coming up with damping off and other weird stuff, like in the picture. That one looks like it made it through so far, but has moldy leaves. UGh!

I started using a humidity dome/heat mat incubator thing I bought, but have since re-thought that idea, because if my problem is 'damping off', then having the dampest environment possible doesn't sound like any solution. I guess I should also mention that they are damping off whether germinated right there in the coco, or in a paper towel. Whether humidity dome is on or off with a fan blowing fresh air around. And it shouldn't be overwatering because the 4" containers have plenty of drainage and they do it after only the 1st watering. Sounds like contaminated coco right??

Has anyone experienced this or know of a way to stop this crap? I'm going to run out of seeds soon. I've heard putting the coco in the oven at 200 for 45 minutes is good, but i've already mixed it all up with perlite. would this make a difference in the oven?
Click to expand...
One thing _ plant the seed side-ways this will make sure you , it seed)sprouts, manypeopleplant the seed with the tip down, need to plant the rounded end in soil - the simpler you make thing the less chance of problems, just soak for 12-24 hours and then pant in soil , you will have a very good % of germination "Keep It Simple"
 
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