Heeelp! What's this bug killing my plants?

I'm assuming some type of Thrip, but everyone says thrips are easy to see. these are not.

I'm indoor, in airpots w/perlite & vermiculite. This is the second time I've had plants slowly destroyed by these beasts. I've used Pyrethrem sprays and bombs 3 days apart x 3, I've done the same with a neem mix. Both these treatments knock them back, but never get rid of them completely.

The damage looks like they just strip the chlorophyl from leaves one by one from the bottom up. I can see a lot of shit left behind on top of each leaf one to two days before they die. The black shit they leave behind is almost larger than the bugs themselves.

these are VERY difficult to see. I took these pics magnified about 60x. To the naked eye, they appear to be maybe 2-3 times the diameter of a human hair. In the second shot you can see they are winged.

There are no webs of any kind, I've never seen anything under a leaf ever. No eggs anywhere that I can see.

definitely looks like a thrips to me.. check out some pictures on google. does it look sort of glossy on the leaves where they leave excrement?

here is some info from a sticky thread here ...Grizzly's Guide to Pulverizing Pests
Thrips


An enlarged picture of the thrip, these insects are smaller than a pinhead

Prevent: Keeping clean habits is the only defense against a thrip infestation. These tiny insects will go unnoticed even by the most cautious grower until they reach damaging levels.
Identify: The thrip is commonly a greenhouse pest. It is difficult for the thrip to reproduce in large quantities outdoors and they must hitchhike into indoor gardens. These little guys are TINY! Thrips can be almost any color, move very quickly and have wings. They can be hard to see individually however detection should not be difficult. Thrips have a tendency to move in herds together, ripping tiny strips off the top of your leaves and drinking juices below. This can deprive plants leaves of chlorophyll so thoroughly they become brittle, dark, and crumble. Tiny black lines present across leaf surface, thats their toilet. The flying thrip can easily infest your garden very quickly if protected from outdoor conditions. The female thrip bores a hole into plant matter and leaves her eggs there in a hole so small you will need a magnifying glass to even know it is there. Apologies, I've been saving the worst for last. In marijuana the thrip prefers to thrive, eat, shit and reproduce primarily inside buds. Shaking branches will send these pests flying and jumping for other places.

That's my only guess too. Only thing is, these look almost black and everyone says Thrips are white or clear/milky colored.

The shit spots they leave behind are glossy black and stuck to the leaves almost like it's a part of the leaf pigment. It cannot be washed off.

Either way, Pyretherin and neem aren't cutting it. I've moved on to Azamax. Anyone got any other ideas? I'm sick of these bastards.

spinosad
and hypoaspis miles (predator mites) they can tolerate the azamax/spinosad as soon as they build up population they will control the thrips

smokinfool said:

That's my only guess too. Only thing is, these look almost black and everyone says Thrips are white or clear/milky colored.

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smokinfool said:

The shit spots they leave behind are glossy black and stuck to the leaves almost like it's a part of the leaf pigment. It cannot be washed off.

Either way, Pyretherin and neem aren't cutting it. I've moved on to Azamax. Anyone got any other ideas? I'm sick of these bastards.

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in my opinion, since Azamax is neem extract, it should be used simultaneously if at all and never sequentially, unless you are trying to breed a resistant population. so mix the two and order some spinosad (monterey insect spray I believe)
good luck
also maybe consider waxing the worst offender (plants) as maybe that will take down the biggest chunk of the population the fastest, gotta weigh your options, at least maybe a root flush and repotting if they aren't in flower? They spend most of their life in the soil and only come feed and crap on your leaves as adults. You are using the products as foliar & soil right?
O and go easy on the azamax in the soil, the surfactant can do some pretty mean stuff to roots.

Spinosad or spinosyns are a new bacterial based boot to the head against foliar feeders (for organic growers & large scale commercial), worked wonders on my broccoli this year as if ya care. usually I use bT, which requires 2x the applications to keep the effect vs the cabbage moth larvae.

Malathion works on most but not all thrips. Spray lightly, fine mist is all you need.

Malathion is used to control aphids, mites,
scale, flies, leafhoppers, leafminer, thrips,
loopers, pear psylla, mealybugs, spittlebugs,
corn earworms, chinchbugs,
grasshoppers, armyworms, bollweevils,
bollworms, lice, ticks, ants, spiders, and
mosquitoes. It is applied to alfalfa, clover,
pasture and range grasses, nonagricultural
land, cereal crops, cotton, safflower,
soybeans, sugar beets, corn, beans,
blueberries, stored grain, and inside
homes.

After spraying keep a small jar of malathion in grow area that you can open periodically. Just the vapors are sometimes quite effective at preventing reinfestation in a small space. Its also super cheap compared to the stuff you have.