Help, curling leaves

Hey RIU, I need your help. I have 2 White Widow and 3 Sour Diesel. I'm at about 65 days far in vege. Growing in peat and perlite (70/30). I feed them at a pH around 5.8. Used to use some locally made organic nutes, but they didn't work out since i use ro water so i changed to grotek nutes, they seem to like them more.
I'm running a 600w diy led fixture with Samsung leds 3500k in a 4*8 tent, but gonna be using 4*4 to grow them under a scrog net.
They have been showing some funky leaf curl and feel super dry, found some drying leaves under the smallest plant, also found some dried leaf tips and some yellowing at some leaf tips.
What could be causing this?

Another question i have is, since im growing in peat/perlite at 70/30, should i water like i would with coco/perlite?

Thanks!
3.jpg1.jpg2.jpg4.jpg
 

piratebug

Well-Known Member
You are watering to often, and the center and upper left plants are having some sort of major issue, (pH, or over feeding, but it looks more like a pH issue), and NO, peat is not coco, so you should only be watering them again, when the pots are super light!
 
Hi pirate!

I've been watering at 650ppm and pH 5.9

The center plant is the one that started showing those curled leafs, the upper right plant has some leaves that started dying, I'll post pics of each plant

1. lower right.
2. lower left.
3. center.
4. upper right.
5. upper left.

lower right.jpglower left.jpgcenter.jpgupper right.jpgupper left.jpg

So i should water less, wait untill the pots feel ligt (last time i watered was 6 days ago). How about the deficiencies and other problems the plants are showing? Thanks man!
 

rastadred22

Well-Known Member
too much light, and too much water. I just answered this on another posted thread I will paste the information I had given him. but in s nut shell, you are killing them with too much light, water, too many nutes..

here's some more info...this also applies for nutrients, your plants will tell you when it needs to be fed, you simply just can't feed it when you feel like you need to feed it.
ok a few things working against you here,

1 rule of thumb to follow, is you always want more plant than pot before you up pot/ transplant, usually u want to stay in the Dixie cup til your about 4 or so nodes in at least, and from there I would go to a 1gallon pot or slightly bigger, u need to develop the roots, u need to create a good healthy root ball before trying to go up a pot size, a few problems with jumping pot sizes before establishing a healthy rootball in the current pot are, u risk the roots not trying to reach for the edge of the pot but instead chasing the water straight to the bottom leaving you with a poor root structure, heading for root bound, and you run the risk of overwatering and running into the risk of not being able to control feeding and problems in a too big pot.

2. u want to usually increase lights gradually, meaning u need a plan. say your biggest light, being your 1000watt Light is your finishing light. a 1000watt light requires a 5x5 canopy about 3ft deep. and you want the lights about 2 to 3 feet away from this 5x5 canopy. usually u increase the light as the plant sizer increases, for eg. seedlings and starting clones u want a low wattage light...any around 24watts of flourescents, about 6-12incches away or 150watts of hids 2-4ft away. and this brings us to the next issue.

3. too much light! the most common mistakes new growers make is...too much light, too much water, too much nutes. you blasting this poor little guy with 1000watts of light. remember 1000wats supplies a canopy 5x5 and 3ft deep at a distance of around 3/4feet from the canopy. the best option would have been to increase your light slightly, a smaller veg light is needed for this size plant. one thing you can do is raise the light all the way up. but remember you will pay for this come flower time when you plant is bigger and calling for more light than it got in veg. if the recommended distance of your light is 3-4feet away from a 5x5 canopy, this doesn't mean keeping it this distance from much smaller plants, you are basically not allowing the plant to grow under the space of this light, with this big of light I would suggest getting that light at least 5feet away from this plant and assessing from there.

4. using the old finger in the soil to test the first inch or two o soil and if dry water, is false info! your plants will tell you exactly when they want water, a good way to judge when to water is to allow the plant to dry out until it shows slight signs of underwatering...(sounds damaging?...no where near as bad as over watering!) the plant will put out a smell first, followed by a wilt/drop of the lower leaves later running to the top. when the first signs of the wilt/droop come, take this time to feel the pot, pick it up notice the weight, notice how dry the soil is etc. now just before the point of the plant begging for water, is when you should be watering. plants don't do well being put on a humans schedule, they do their own thing, and will let u know. u need to allow the medium to completely dry out before watering, this will prevent all these signs you are seeing.

also as some advice you should let your sick plant recover, wait til the speed bumping, drooping, weird/slowed growth all stop, then proceed in topping and shaping and defoliating...what ever techniques you want to apply, doing so now only furthers your problems.

I hope this answers most of your problems. I always urge people to research, study plant signs and problems...the plant will always show u what it needs when it needs it, its about playing the game of identifying what the plants telling you it needs then giving what it needs, and it will always show/tell you first. including watering.
 

Alctrz8849

Well-Known Member
This Chart might help you in the future!
Love me some charts! I laminate the ones I like and reference them often during WC, PPM & PH checks and now this for a quick double check on diagnose when needed!! Thanks!!

I'd attach the other one but it's GH nute specific and available on their website for the specific version whatever medium you may be using.
 

Attachments

too much light, and too much water. I just answered this on another posted thread I will paste the information I had given him. but in s nut shell, you are killing them with too much light, water, too many nutes..

here's some more info...this also applies for nutrients, your plants will tell you when it needs to be fed, you simply just can't feed it when you feel like you need to feed it.
ok a few things working against you here,

1 rule of thumb to follow, is you always want more plant than pot before you up pot/ transplant, usually u want to stay in the Dixie cup til your about 4 or so nodes in at least, and from there I would go to a 1gallon pot or slightly bigger, u need to develop the roots, u need to create a good healthy root ball before trying to go up a pot size, a few problems with jumping pot sizes before establishing a healthy rootball in the current pot are, u risk the roots not trying to reach for the edge of the pot but instead chasing the water straight to the bottom leaving you with a poor root structure, heading for root bound, and you run the risk of overwatering and running into the risk of not being able to control feeding and problems in a too big pot.

2. u want to usually increase lights gradually, meaning u need a plan. say your biggest light, being your 1000watt Light is your finishing light. a 1000watt light requires a 5x5 canopy about 3ft deep. and you want the lights about 2 to 3 feet away from this 5x5 canopy. usually u increase the light as the plant sizer increases, for eg. seedlings and starting clones u want a low wattage light...any around 24watts of flourescents, about 6-12incches away or 150watts of hids 2-4ft away. and this brings us to the next issue.

3. too much light! the most common mistakes new growers make is...too much light, too much water, too much nutes. you blasting this poor little guy with 1000watts of light. remember 1000wats supplies a canopy 5x5 and 3ft deep at a distance of around 3/4feet from the canopy. the best option would have been to increase your light slightly, a smaller veg light is needed for this size plant. one thing you can do is raise the light all the way up. but remember you will pay for this come flower time when you plant is bigger and calling for more light than it got in veg. if the recommended distance of your light is 3-4feet away from a 5x5 canopy, this doesn't mean keeping it this distance from much smaller plants, you are basically not allowing the plant to grow under the space of this light, with this big of light I would suggest getting that light at least 5feet away from this plant and assessing from there.

4. using the old finger in the soil to test the first inch or two o soil and if dry water, is false info! your plants will tell you exactly when they want water, a good way to judge when to water is to allow the plant to dry out until it shows slight signs of underwatering...(sounds damaging?...no where near as bad as over watering!) the plant will put out a smell first, followed by a wilt/drop of the lower leaves later running to the top. when the first signs of the wilt/droop come, take this time to feel the pot, pick it up notice the weight, notice how dry the soil is etc. now just before the point of the plant begging for water, is when you should be watering. plants don't do well being put on a humans schedule, they do their own thing, and will let u know. u need to allow the medium to completely dry out before watering, this will prevent all these signs you are seeing.

also as some advice you should let your sick plant recover, wait til the speed bumping, drooping, weird/slowed growth all stop, then proceed in topping and shaping and defoliating...what ever techniques you want to apply, doing so now only furthers your problems.

I hope this answers most of your problems. I always urge people to research, study plant signs and problems...the plant will always show u what it needs when it needs it, its about playing the game of identifying what the plants telling you it needs then giving what it needs, and it will always show/tell you first. including watering.
Hey Rasta!

I totally agree on the plants being over watered, they took a long ass time to dry out, I'm gonna be watering them in the next days, should I wait till they start showing sings of being thirsty? what ppm should I feed them at? last time I fed them at 650ppm.

Regarding the light I have a 600w DIY led light, I'm running it at about 50% power and have been running it at that power for 60 days, that's why I didn't think it was an issue. I raised the light anyways.

Here's a pic at the time when I transplanted, of course they are topped, my question is, should I have waited a little bit more before transplanting? went from a 2.6 gallon to a 6.6 gallon. Might have gone into too big of a pot?20210525_205554.jpg
 

rastadred22

Well-Known Member
Hey Rasta!

I totally agree on the plants being over watered, they took a long ass time to dry out, I'm gonna be watering them in the next days, should I wait till they start showing sings of being thirsty? what ppm should I feed them at? last time I fed them at 650ppm.

Regarding the light I have a 600w DIY led light, I'm running it at about 50% power and have been running it at that power for 60 days, that's why I didn't think it was an issue. I raised the light anyways.

Here's a pic at the time when I transplanted, of course they are topped, my question is, should I have waited a little bit more before transplanting? went from a 2.6 gallon to a 6.6 gallon. Might have gone into too big of a pot?

great looking healthy root mass, id say it was good timing to up pot. as far as LEDs im not to advanced on using LEDS but I don't see to many signs of too much light. looks mostly like heavy leaf pillowing, curl, and weird slow growth as signs from drowning/depriving the root system of oxygen. if you are not to sure what the pot feels like when it really needs water a good way is to dry it out to the point you recognize early underwatering signs (lower leaves slightly drooping, editing a stronger smell, slight wilt) and feel the pot, remember how light a true dry pot feels, and you can gauge the time and weight and plant signs that she's thirsty. underwatering will always be better than overwatering, these plants love adversity, drying out the medium before feedings will send your root systems in search of more water, rather than drowning and rotting in an overwatered medium. just makes sure you are not overwatering at the time of feeding, and make sure you are allowing time for the medium to dry before feedings and you should correct this problem. as far as ppm, sounds about right for the amount of plant you have. also I don't see signs of nutrient burn.


edit. now that I see your lastest post underneath I do see signs of nutrient burn, I wouldn't feed more than what you are now.
 
This Chart might help you in the future!
Hi Void!

Thanks for the chart, I always have trouble trying to match the charts with reality lol

For example, this picture. Could it be calcium deficiency? Plants have some holes in them, at first i thought it was me, maybe i was too rough with them, I actually droped one of the plants. But i notice 2 or 3 plants got them, havent been able to find any pests, what do you think?agu.jpg
 
great looking healthy root mass, id say it was good timing to up pot. as far as LEDs im not to advanced on using LEDS but I don't see to many signs of too much light. looks mostly like heavy leaf pillowing, curl, and weird slow growth as signs from drowning/depriving the root system of oxygen. if you are not to sure what the pot feels like when it really needs water a good way is to dry it out to the point you recognize early underwatering signs (lower leaves slightly drooping, editing a stronger smell, slight wilt) and feel the pot, remember how light a true dry pot feels, and you can gauge the time and weight and plant signs that she's thirsty. underwatering will always be better than overwatering, these plants love adversity, drying out the medium before feedings will send your root systems in search of more water, rather than drowning and rotting in an overwatered medium. just makes sure you are not overwatering at the time of feeding, and make sure you are allowing time for the medium to dry before feedings and you should correct this problem. as far as ppm, sounds about right for the amount of plant you have. also I don't see signs of nutrient burn.
Nice, this gives me hope :bigjoint:

One of the plants is not really growing at all and I have noticed the rest of pots got way lighter than the smaller plant this last couple days. So i guess I'll water the light plants, thanks for your help!
 

rastadred22

Well-Known Member
could have been
Hi Void!

Thanks for the chart, I always have trouble trying to match the charts with reality lol

For example, this picture. Could it be calcium deficiency? Plants have some holes in them, at first i thought it was me, maybe i was too rough with them, I actually droped one of the plants. But i notice 2 or 3 plants got them, havent been able to find any pests, what do you think?View attachment 4922891
could be from foliar feeding? maybe nutrient or water splash when feeding, causing light or nutrient to burn the hole?
 

rastadred22

Well-Known Member
Nice, this gives me hope :bigjoint:

One of the plants is not really growing at all and I have noticed the rest of pots got way lighter than the smaller plant this last couple days. So i guess I'll water the light plants, thanks for your help!
maybe you drowned her a bit to much after transplant...always take a while, from a few days to week, for them to 'take' or recuperate, or what ever word u choose. I had a few rough transplants with my outdoor from transplanting a bit to early before I had a healthy enough root mass, and this causes the plant to go through stress, usually because the rootball isn't formed enough and u break away the root mass while transplanting....and another thing this causes, when you water in the centre of your transplanted plug, the underdeveloped root mass follows the water straight down and around the bottom of the pot...never allowing it to reach to the outside of your pot and branch out with capillary roots...this problem leaves your plant with a weaker root structure that's more prone to become root bound.

I like to water my plants in a way that can prevent this. there's a technique you can apply when watering that allows you to transfer soil in and out of your transplant plug, making sure your roots chase towards the outsides of your pot filling your medium with robust healthy roots. and not roots that are lacking, don't fill the entire medium and that ran straight down to the bottom.

here's an article that in a way explains a similar technique, prevents overwatering, promotes healthy roots which in turn equal healthy plants and great yeilds;

Proper Way To Water
 
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