Hollow stems seen as a positive in Marijuana?

growerNshower

growerNshower

Well-Known Member
This thread is a bit old, but I was wondering if hollow stems can be a mechanism for fast vertical growth?

I have a male plant started from seed under strong T5 light that grew tight nodes and a very sturdy stem. Once I found out it was male, I put it in my living room in low light for about a week while I was setting up my male grow room in the basement. The plant started to stretch and the stem got weak. When I tried to train it, the stem folded and when I came back a few hours later it was wilted and the crease in the stem seemed unresolvable, so I topped it and found out the stem was hollow. Of course I don't know how hollow the sturdy base of the plant is, and it may be of no consequence to the argument. However, this observation started me thinking how having a hollow stem may allow a plant to stretch taller with fewer resources to win the "race to the sun" in a field of competing plants.
 
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Blitz35

Well-Known Member
Old thread, but i will add my experience. I just had a main stem snap on me for the first time as i attempted to lst. The branch was completely hollow! Ive never had one like it before, and no, it has nothing to do with genetics! I just finished a round of the same ones and all had solid stems with that hard white centre. It seems its from lack of movement. First time im not running the fan on the girls as its a cold winter, and while they are growing big for auto's, the stems, especially the one's in the plant that doesnt move at all ever, are weaker. Seems if the branches aren't forced to move, they don't build up any tolerance/resistance in the stems as their is no need for it. I've been hitting them with the fan for 4 days now all day and they are getting stronger. Rotated the one in the back to the front and at the start of flower, the branches are starting to support themselves much better! Finally upright on her instead of hanging almost sidewise with no strength to stay upright. I even give them silica throughout the grow, but it seems the fan is what gives them the most strength!
 
Lady lea-jane

Lady lea-jane

New Member
Hey guys I have just topped my hollow plants and it has left the top exposed and hollow will it heal like that I heard you can put something over the cut to seal it. I'm concerned I am going something wrong.
 
growerNshower

growerNshower

Well-Known Member
Lady lea-jane said:
Hey guys I have just topped my hollow plants and it has left the top exposed and hollow will it heal like that I heard you can put something over the cut to seal it. I'm concerned I am going something wrong.
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Super late reply, but I melted some beeswax into/around my hollow stems after topping to plug the hole. I didn't like the idea of bugs being able to crawl down inside the hollow stem and lay eggs and hide from a good neem/soap spray.
 
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Call_me_JJ

Active Member
There aren't too many discussions of this online. I've got a Skywalker OG that is just like this. It's being grown with 6 other strains at the moment, all fed the same and they are all doing very well, aside from major differences in height. The Skywalker OG is the tallest, I can't get rid of purple on the stems and it has been hollow and super brittle it's whole life. I've taken clones and am getting ready to flower the original. I usually do a lot of training and supercropping but every time I try with the skywalker it breaks. I was really excited to try this strain, but I don't have high hopes for this one.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
I hate hollow stems, they seem to happen in hydro but not so much in soil. They are weak and don't hold weight plus nearly impossible to root the hollow stems so you are stuck tossing those cuts.
 
conor c

conor c

Well-Known Member
Mohican said:
Interesting subject!

I read an article that showed pictures and said that the hollow stem is a trait from Hemp plants. At some point the strain was crossed with hemp to give it more vigor or to gain some other advantageous growing characteristics. None of the pure sativa plants I grew had hollow stems. Many of the hybrids did.

Cheers,
Mo
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Correct it stems from hemp if its caused by genetics they say but ive seen it mostly in pure indica strains personally
 
mustbetribbin

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone,

I just wanted to share a technique that I've learned recently that does allow me to clone one of my larger hollow stemed indica plants.

I'm growing in soil, so that may make a difference, maybe keep mother plants in soil even if you grow in hydro for this method to work? Not sure really.

So how did I stumble across this technique, well I was simply attempting to super crop one of the lower branches on my plant in order to strengthen that particular branch, so what I did was while the branch was maybe 5 inches long and still growing I super cropped it, but the timing was where the secret sweet spot had to be somewhat perfect, so first of all it has to be supercropped early enough on the branch that when you come in to make the cut, the supercropped area is right above where you make your cut, so the supercropped area must be down low on the branch for this to work, & it has to be right up next to where the healed area is located.

So what exactly happened to my cutting that made me able to clone a plant that I otherwise have not had success cloning?

Well when I went in to supercrop this particular branch, the young branch actually bursted on the inside, and when it happened I got kind of like an oh shit I may have done more harm than good type feeling, that is exactly what you need to make happen for this to work, you must start somewhat low on a newly growing new branch, and gently squeeze the branch until it bursts inside, that's it.

So the branch was not squeezed so hard that it fell over, but almost (if it had fell over, I would have tied it up for support and would have still worked) and then I let this branch grow for about 9-10 days and then I went in 1hr after lights out to harvest the clone cutting, 5 days later the plant showed top growth in the leaves, and it's now a 3 week old clone alive and well, when every other branch that was larger that I tried cloning, and that did not burst through from supercropping did not make it past 3-4 days and they were also rotted out in the center all the way to the surface of the dirt that they were sticking out from.

So yeah, I just wanted to come here and say this, and hopefully provide others with more ability to keep some of their cuts alive and medicines in their med cabinets on some of these harder to work with varieties.

Thanks y'all, Good day.
 
growerNshower

growerNshower

Well-Known Member
mustbetribbin said:
Hi everyone,

I just wanted to share a technique that I've learned recently that does allow me to clone one of my larger hollow stemed indica plants.

I'm growing in soil, so that may make a difference, maybe keep mother plants in soil even if you grow in hydro for this method to work? Not sure really.

So how did I stumble across this technique, well I was simply attempting to super crop one of the lower branches on my plant in order to strengthen that particular branch, so what I did was while the branch was maybe 5 inches long and still growing I super cropped it, but the timing was where the secret sweet spot had to be somewhat perfect, so first of all it has to be supercropped early enough on the branch that when you come in to make the cut, the supercropped area is right above where you make your cut, so the supercropped area must be down low on the branch for this to work, & it has to be right up next to where the healed area is located.

So what exactly happened to my cutting that made me able to clone a plant that I otherwise have not had success cloning?

Well when I went in to supercrop this particular branch, the young branch actually bursted on the inside, and when it happened I got kind of like an oh shit I may have done more harm than good type feeling, that is exactly what you need to make happen for this to work, you must start somewhat low on a newly growing new branch, and gently squeeze the branch until it bursts inside, that's it.

So the branch was not squeezed so hard that it fell over, but almost (if it had fell over, I would have tied it up for support and would have still worked) and then I let this branch grow for about 9-10 days and then I went in 1hr after lights out to harvest the clone cutting, 5 days later the plant showed top growth in the leaves, and it's now a 3 week old clone alive and well, when every other branch that was larger that I tried cloning, and that did not burst through from supercropping did not make it past 3-4 days and they were also rotted out in the center all the way to the surface of the dirt that they were sticking out from.

So yeah, I just wanted to come here and say this, and hopefully provide others with more ability to keep some of their cuts alive and medicines in their med cabinets on some of these harder to work with varieties.

Thanks y'all, Good day.
Click to expand...
Nice work, thanks for sharing...

where do you make your final cut relative to the plant wound? is the healed wound just distal to the cut, hence buried in rockwool?
 
kroc

kroc

Well-Known Member
Somewhere in the "cannabis breeders bible" they briefly mention how hollow stems can mean itll have good resin production. I'll go dig for the actual quote.
 
mustbetribbin

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
growerNshower said:
Nice work, thanks for sharing...

where do you make your final cut relative to the plant wound? is the healed wound just distal to the cut, hence buried in rockwool?
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Hi @growerNshower

Yes indeed, the area that was supercropped goes down into the dirt, when the wounded area heals up, it should have a bulging area around this inner wound, what this does is help flood the cutting with nutrients while it's still growing on the plant, and also helps make for a sturdier stalk and root zone, but if done correctly, when the wound is made early enough on the branch, it seems to create a nodule of inflammation that helps seal the stem off allowing for the clone to kind of regulate itself on it's own, basically the stem is able to create a pithy barricade that allows it withhold it's moisture content and not just flow right out the center, more like a actual plant than just a branch, with hollow stems it's as if the clone cutting are born without a plug, they are missing a crucial survival mechanism in a way.

I'm going to be working on this exact method of supercropping + cloning later on this week and next week, I've recently topped the plant on like 10 branches, so I'll have quite a few to experiment with on the specifics of where the exact best place to cut is, but on the branch that I was able to clone, it formed a widened nodule about 1 1/2" long and maybe gained 1/8th inch more diameter in the center than the rest of the stalk of the branch, when I made the cut, I cut right at the very bottom of where the nodule started to expand, I knew I wanted that thickness for my clone, and it payed off, the clone is doing well, so I think it may be best to not include too much of the part that is possibly still hollow going down the bottom of the cutting, and try to cut as much of the over all mass of the healed bulge and try to cut right at the base where the bulge begins to widen out and look fibrous coming from off the lower stem.

So one more important thing I just thought of last night, I remembered that i actually supercropped this clone twice before I made the cut, one nice burst of a supercrop about 3-4 inches up on the branch as its about 6-7inches long (remember this is a long stretchy kind of branch), then I allowed this to heal and stretch to about 9 inches then I did a light supercrop again, the branch is more fibrous after healing 4-5 days so it doesn't burst like it did at first, but mainly just a light squeeze and bend, nothing heavy on the second supercrop + light lst, that's all I did, took about 11 days total before I felt it was healed enough from both supercroppings, that's from first squeeze to day of the cut, but you may add one extra day to that if you see the plant needing just a bit longer to heal.

The indica I'm growing is from a mex bag seed from about 8 years back, it exhibits all the traits mentioned in this thread, it is a fast growing and stretchy kind of plant, with big wide indica leaves and of course branches that grow too quickly and get hollowed out stems quickly as each branch grows, and if an attempt to super crop a branch is made after a certain amount of inner diameter is reached, then the branches simply split open and like splinter apart and the inner core touches the opposing side, like there is nothing there to cause restriction, the plant seems easily penetrable by particles in this way, as when it splits open air can enter inside easily.

But thank you for your reply, I will be providing any extra details to this as I get a few more of cut/clones taken from this mothering indica, but yeah as of yet I am still learning the technique myself, I will provide intricate details to further explain the method I'm using if I find anything extra to add to this, and I will be sure to update on my survival rate of the next few I'll be taking soon, maybe 3 weeks.

I'm glad to be able to offer a bit of help on this subject, I'll be back to share more info as to what works soon, happy growing everyone.
 
growerNshower

growerNshower

Well-Known Member
mustbetribbin said:
Hi @growerNshower

Yes indeed, the area that was supercropped goes down into the dirt, when the wounded area heals up, it should have a bulging area around this inner wound, what this does is help flood the cutting with nutrients while it's still growing on the plant, and also helps make for a sturdier stalk and root zone, but if done correctly, when the wound is made early enough on the branch, it seems to create a nodule of inflammation that helps seal the stem off allowing for the clone to kind of regulate itself on it's own, basically the stem is able to create a pithy barricade that allows it withhold it's moisture content and not just flow right out the center, more like a actual plant than just a branch, with hollow stems it's as if the clone cutting are born without a plug, they are missing a crucial survival mechanism in a way.

I'm going to be working on this exact method of supercropping + cloning later on this week and next week, I've recently topped the plant on like 10 branches, so I'll have quite a few to experiment with on the specifics of where the exact best place to cut is, but on the branch that I was able to clone, it formed a widened nodule about 1 1/2" long and maybe gained 1/8th inch more diameter in the center than the rest of the stalk of the branch, when I made the cut, I cut right at the very bottom of where the nodule started to expand, I knew I wanted that thickness for my clone, and it payed off, the clone is doing well, so I think it may be best to not include too much of the part that is possibly still hollow going down the bottom of the cutting, and try to cut as much of the over all mass of the healed bulge and try to cut right at the base where the bulge begins to widen out and look fibrous coming from off the lower stem.

So one more important thing I just thought of last night, I remembered that i actually supercropped this clone twice before I made the cut, one nice burst of a supercrop about 3-4 inches up on the branch as its about 6-7inches long (remember this is a long stretchy kind of branch), then I allowed this to heal and stretch to about 9 inches then I did a light supercrop again, the branch is more fibrous after healing 4-5 days so it doesn't burst like it did at first, but mainly just a light squeeze and bend, nothing heavy on the second supercrop + light lst, that's all I did, took about 11 days total before I felt it was healed enough from both supercroppings, that's from first squeeze to day of the cut, but you may add one extra day to that if you see the plant needing just a bit longer to heal.

The indica I'm growing is from a mex bag seed from about 8 years back, it exhibits all the traits mentioned in this thread, it is a fast growing and stretchy kind of plant, with big wide indica leaves and of course branches that grow too quickly and get hollowed out stems quickly as each branch grows, and if an attempt to super crop a branch is made after a certain amount of inner diameter is reached, then the branches simply split open and like splinter apart and the inner core touches the opposing side, like there is nothing there to cause restriction, the plant seems easily penetrable by particles in this way, as when it splits open air can enter inside easily.

But thank you for your reply, I will be providing any extra details to this as I get a few more of cut/clones taken from this mothering indica, but yeah as of yet I am still learning the technique myself, I will provide intricate details to further explain the method I'm using if I find anything extra to add to this, and I will be sure to update on my survival rate of the next few I'll be taking soon, maybe 3 weeks.

I'm glad to be able to offer a bit of help on this subject, I'll be back to share more info as to what works soon, happy growing everyone.
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this sounds genius, essentially, you’re stimulating wound healing and stem cell expansion for callus generation way before you cut...I need to try this
 
mustbetribbin

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
growerNshower said:
this sounds genius, essentially, you’re stimulating wound healing and stem cell expansion for callus generation way before you cut...I need to try this
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@growerNshower

That's nice man! Sounds like you've got a good understanding of it, I do hope we can figure out the best way to help others keep these plants in perpetual growth and keep some of these most favorite varieties in rotation, I love old school indica's and the like, I'm super excited to see some more cuts of this strain standing on their own in the soil, now that I know how difficult this type of plant can be to clone.

So I went in today and checked on a few new branches that are coming out, it seems the branches higher up are getting to have hollow stems that mature faster than the ones below, and I had one 6" stem that was growing out, but it just wanted to split open when I squeezed it, just like the other thicker branches have done.

The cut that I got this to work on was the healthiest tiny branch down low that was growing on the plant, so this might work better if it's done on thinner diameter branches that receive filtered light, perhaps?

I did try something different tonight, I found a new branch that was only about 3 1/2- 4 inches long, and I was able to get this branch to burst in the center like the first one, but it was in a smaller area between the leaf node and the stalk, about only half inch from where it's coming out of the stalk, so I went upwards from there and squeezed the top also and bent it over, kind of an extreme treatment kind of test on this branch, I squeezed it hard enough for it to become darkened from where the pressure was placed.

So I will modify this if I need to, and explain what I found to give me better results on this method as soon as I get them, I'm optimistic that I will be able to get more cuts this way, seems somewhat more extreme treatment may be required to make this work on the higher up branches that are receiving more energy flow and resources from the stalk, may early training as soon as a branch is like 3 inches long some super cropping and lst training could be used to make the plant harden off their hollowed center and retain their moisture level, instead of being so easily penetrated, with such little ability to retain their lifeforce.

I hope to hear if others can get some similar results to this, I know it's making a big difference for me with this possibly rare seed that popped, I don't know if I'll get this strain ever again, and with such a natural challenge to duplicate it's genetic by cloning, makes me quite happy that I'm finding this out, as I currently have 0 pollen to try and breed to her with, and no other seeds of her genetic type popped out.

I appreciate your interest in this subject @growerNshower , I too am fascinated by it, and i'm quite happy to be part of this discussion, take care my friend/s.
 
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growerNshower

growerNshower

Well-Known Member
mustbetribbin said:
@growerNshower

That's nice man! Sounds like you've got a good understanding of it, I do hope we can figure out the best way to help others keep these plants in perpetual growth and keep some of these most favorite varieties in rotation, I love old school indica's and the like, I'm super excited to see some more cuts of this strain standing on their own in the soil, now that I know how difficult this type of plant can be to clone.

So I went in today and checked on a few new branches that are coming out, it seems the branches higher up are getting to have hollow stems that mature faster than the ones below, and I had one 6" stem that was growing out, but it just wanted to split open when I squeezed it, just like the other thicker branches have done.

The cut that I got this to work on was the healthiest tiny branch down low that was growing on the plant, so this might work better if it's done on thinner diameter branches that receive filtered light, perhaps?

I did try something different tonight, I found a new branch that was only about 3 1/2- 4 inches long, and I was able to get this branch to burst in the center like the first one, but it was in a smaller area between the leaf node and the stalk, about only half inch from where it's coming out of the stalk, so I went upwards from there and squeezed the top also and bent it over, kind of an extreme treatment kind of test on this branch, I squeezed it hard enough for it to become darkened from where the pressure was placed.

So I will modify this if I need to, and explain what I found to give me better results on this method as soon as I get them, I'm optimistic that I will be able to get more cuts this way, seems somewhat more extreme treatment may be required to make this work on the higher up branches that are receiving more energy flow and resources from the stalk, may early training as soon as a branch is like 3 inches long some super cropping and lst training could be used to make the plant harden off their hollowed center and retain their moisture level, instead of being so easily penetrated, with such little ability to retain their lifeforce.

I hope to hear if others can get some similar results to this, I know it's making a big difference for me with this possibly rare seed that popped, I don't know if I'll get this strain ever again, and with such a natural challenge to duplicate it's genetic by cloning, makes me quite happy that I'm finding this out, as I currently have 0 pollen to try and breed to her with, and no other seeds of her genetic type popped out.

I appreciate your interest in this subject @growerNshower , I too am fascinated by it, and i'm quite happy to be part of this discussion, take care my friend/s.
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I like the idea of training early to prevent too large diameter of hollow stems.

What are the effects, bud structure and terps like on this cut?
 
mustbetribbin

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
growerNshower said:
I like the idea of training early to prevent too large diameter of hollow stems.

What are the effects, bud structure and terps like on this cut?
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If I may be completely truthful about the matter, lol, I still don't know absolutely for sure that this plant I'm growing is female just yet, and so I haven't flowered this plant out just yet, I'd say within about 1 month I should know for sure, I'm trying to let this plant get big and healthy, and whether it's male or female I'm going to try to breed with it, maybe hunt through the seeds later on to find this phenotype/structure again, in those seed offspring.

But I can share the scent that I'm picking up off from it so far in veg, it's about 2 months old so far, and it definitely has I nice almost rose like mild sweet scent to it, matched up to kind of like rubber funky, like almost mushroom musk odor kind of blended smell to to it, so it's putting off a decent array of scent so far id say.

The structure of the buds, I do remember them being mid sized spear shaped buds, nice rich color to them darker red hairs and leaves, just had an old school kind of scent to the buds, I can't say exactly, I didn't label as far as scent goes back then unfortunately, I just knew that this smoke was all around good for aches and pains, and was helping me knock out cold for some good rest while I had it in stock. It had a very pure and authentic kind of spice like taste to the smoke, it had a richness to it above some of the other buds that were around at the time.

That's kind of the most details that I am going to be able to list about it atm, but I will update on the strain as it grows.

What kind of smells or terpenes do hollow stemmed Cannabis plants typically put off I wonder? Maybe these have certain relatable effects as well? Does this hollow stem trait show up in hybrid crosses as a dominant characteristic of this mostly indica variety types gene expression?
 
Gemtree

Gemtree

Well-Known Member
All of my stems are huge and hollow after I started vegging under a 3100k cmh. Think it has more to do with speed of growth and light spectrum.
 
growerNshower

growerNshower

Well-Known Member
Gemtree said:
All of my stems are huge and hollow after I started vegging under a 3100k cmh. Think it has more to do with speed of growth and light spectrum.
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That’s interesting, I’d have to agree, speed of growth makes a lot of sense. Is that a blue or red shifted spectrum bulb? I was thinking of hollow stems as a possible adaptation to speed growth in competition for canopy space, and I’ve noticed with Dutch passions Durban poison, the males seem to be have larger more hollow stems.
 
Gemtree

Gemtree

Well-Known Member
growerNshower said:
That’s interesting, I’d have to agree, speed of growth makes a lot of sense. Is that a blue or red shifted spectrum bulb? I was thinking of hollow stems as a possible adaptation to speed growth in competition for canopy space, and I’ve noticed with Dutch passions Durban poison, the males seem to be have larger more hollow stems.
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It's more red it's the 3100k but it's like 92 cri or something so they grow fast
 
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