HPA DIY first system question/ newbie

aero system DIY and this build is going to be my cloner it will hold 75 2” net cups and I’m waiting for my 24v solenoids haven’t received it yet.. what u are seeing in the picture are some heavy duty line voltage solenoids that I only wanted to use for testing purposes don’t want to keep them. Anyway the question is can I use the same power supply that I’m using for the pump, pressure switch, to also connect a relay timer to that 24v line and power the 24v solenoid?

That power supply says can deliver a max of 2 amps at 24 volts, so you need to add up the total amp draw for each item it is powering.

I would recommend you be at least a little conservative and not go the full 2 amps. I personally would limit it to 1.8 amps max.

That pump has a peak amp draw of 1.2 amps. Most solenoids are around 0.5 amps, so if you only use a single solenoid, thats going to be close to your max. Digital timers typically dont draw a significant amount of current, but you should check it. Mechanical timers may draw a lot more.

What nozzles are you planning to use? I dont think Ive seen anyone else use HPA in a cloner. Most do LPA because its a lot cheaper and easier to set up.

So I have been doing LPA for a while now I want to convert everything yo HPA for my Veg and Bloom and I fell in love with the way the roots come out 10 times better than in LPA and IMO that's the most important part the beginning of there life!

Sorry meant to type it as well lol they are Tefen 21105

I'm actually having a bit of a problem trying to stabilize the pump , order I have things in / Res, filter , pump , pressure gauge, pressure switch, shut off valve and nozel. It's on and it's misting at 100 psi but it slowly losing pressure and kicking pump on like a pulse every 20 seconds I don't see a drop of water anywhere I don't get it

Im confused about a couple of things.

Is the pressure switch the solenoid that opens to allow water to get to the nozzle?

Is the shutoff valve just a manual shut off valve or is this the solenoid?

When you say its on and misting - you mean the its misting full time - no on/off with the solenoid?

If so, the pump is working the way it is supposed to work. It has an internal pressure switch that turns the pump off when it reaches the hi setting - which could be anywhere from about 60-150 PSI. There should be an adjustment screw somewhere on the pump.

Anyway, the pump will turn off when that pressure is reached, then it will turn back ON when the pressure drops to the lower setting.

There are two things you need to do to eliminate that cycling.

1) Add an accumulator tank.
2) Add a pressure reducer right after the accumulator tank and before the solenoid that controls the nozzles.

The pressure reducer should be set to a pressure less than the pump minimum pressure.

This is the one I used when I was doing HPA. Its cheap, but works well.

This is the accumulator tank I used.

Make sure the pumps max pressure is less than the accumulator tank max pressure. That tank is safe to 150 PSI, so you would set the pump to about 125 PSI, then set the pressure deducer to anything under the cut ON setting of the pump.

If you do that, your nozzles will always have an even, constant pressure, and your pump will only need to run every hour or more depending on the size of the tank, number of nozzles. Those pumps are not really designed to run full time.

Larry3215 said:

That power supply says can deliver a max of 2 amps at 24 volts, so you need to add up the total amp draw for each item it is powering.

I would recommend you be at least a little conservative and not go the full 2 amps. I personally would limit it to 1.8 amps max.

That pump has a peak amp draw of 1.2 amps. Most solenoids are around 0.5 amps, so if you only use a single solenoid, thats going to be close to your max. Digital timers typically dont draw a significant amount of current, but you should check it. Mechanical timers may draw a lot more.

What nozzles are you planning to use? I dont think Ive seen anyone else use HPA in a cloner. Most do LPA because its a lot cheaper and easier to set up.

Click to expand...

Larry3215 said:

Im confused about a couple of things.

Is the pressure switch the solenoid that opens to allow water to get to the nozzle?

Is the shutoff valve just a manual shut off valve or is this the solenoid?

When you say its on and misting - you mean the its misting full time - no on/off with the solenoid?

If so, the pump is working the way it is supposed to work. It has an internal pressure switch that turns the pump off when it reaches the hi setting - which could be anywhere from about 60-150 PSI. There should be an adjustment screw somewhere on the pump.

Anyway, the pump will turn off when that pressure is reached, then it will turn back ON when the pressure drops to the lower setting.

There are two things you need to do to eliminate that cycling.

1) Add an accumulator tank.
2) Add a pressure reducer right after the accumulator tank and before the solenoid that controls the nozzles.

The pressure reducer should be set to a pressure less than the pump minimum pressure.

This is the one I used when I was doing HPA. Its cheap, but works well.

Amazon.com: ATWFS 1/4" Pressure Regulator RO Water Purifier Parts Water Pressure Switch 1/4'' Connection Regulator Valve Reducing Pressure Valve : Industrial & Scientific

Amazon.com: ATWFS 1/4" Pressure Regulator RO Water Purifier Parts Water Pressure Switch 1/4'' Connection Regulator Valve Reducing Pressure Valve : Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

This is the accumulator tank I used.

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Buy Eastman 60023 Det-12 Thermal Expansion Tank, 4.5 Gal, 3/4 In Mpt, Steel, 4.5 Gallon, White: Water Heater Parts - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

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Make sure the pumps max pressure is less than the accumulator tank max pressure. That tank is safe to 150 PSI, so you would set the pump to about 125 PSI, then set the pressure deducer to anything under the cut ON setting of the pump.

If you do that, your nozzles will always have an even, constant pressure, and your pump will only need to run every hour or more depending on the size of the tank, number of nozzles. Those pumps are not really designed to run full time.

Click to expand...

First of all I had no idea I needed a pressure regulator I haven't even seen this suggested in anything your the first to tell me
Let me show u some pics so I can explain a little better so this is the setup also my goal here is to get the pressure dialed in before adding the accumulator tank


Resivior to filter to pump

Pump to gauge to regulator to shut off valve in the off possition then to novel
Starts at 100 falls to 95 kicks in and repeats pulsating

I was just thinking is it doing this because there isn't any push back in the lines so the pump doesn't stabilize alone and it needs the accumulator to hold pressure ?

I just unplugged the pump still leaving the shut off closed so it's just pressure in the lines the gauge fell to 80psi n held it and I'm pretty sure that's the factory defualt from manufacturer on screw setting. So I don't know what that means because why does the pump have to work to keep a 95-120psi it wont stop at a number maybe. Is this how this pump works like said I'm just trying to learn , I have to run some test and add the tank see what's going on and also order the Regulator you just told me about

Larry3215 said:

Im confused about a couple of things.

Is the pressure switch the solenoid that opens to allow water to get to the nozzle?

Is the shutoff valve just a manual shut off valve or is this the solenoid?

When you say its on and misting - you mean the its misting full time - no on/off with the solenoid?

If so, the pump is working the way it is supposed to work. It has an internal pressure switch that turns the pump off when it reaches the hi setting - which could be anywhere from about 60-150 PSI. There should be an adjustment screw somewhere on the pump.

Anyway, the pump will turn off when that pressure is reached, then it will turn back ON when the pressure drops to the lower setting.

There are two things you need to do to eliminate that cycling.

1) Add an accumulator tank.
2) Add a pressure reducer right after the accumulator tank and before the solenoid that controls the nozzles.

The pressure reducer should be set to a pressure less than the pump minimum pressure.

This is the one I used when I was doing HPA. Its cheap, but works well.

Amazon.com: ATWFS 1/4" Pressure Regulator RO Water Purifier Parts Water Pressure Switch 1/4'' Connection Regulator Valve Reducing Pressure Valve : Industrial & Scientific

Amazon.com: ATWFS 1/4" Pressure Regulator RO Water Purifier Parts Water Pressure Switch 1/4'' Connection Regulator Valve Reducing Pressure Valve : Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

This is the accumulator tank I used.

Amazon.com: Eastman 60023 Det-12 Thermal Expansion Tank, 4.5 Gal, 3/4 In Mpt, Steel, 4.5 Gallon, White : Tools & Home Improvement

Buy Eastman 60023 Det-12 Thermal Expansion Tank, 4.5 Gal, 3/4 In Mpt, Steel, 4.5 Gallon, White: Water Heater Parts - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Make sure the pumps max pressure is less than the accumulator tank max pressure. That tank is safe to 150 PSI, so you would set the pump to about 125 PSI, then set the pressure deducer to anything under the cut ON setting of the pump.

If you do that, your nozzles will always have an even, constant pressure, and your pump will only need to run every hour or more depending on the size of the tank, number of nozzles. Those pumps are not really designed to run full time.

Click to expand...

Cycling every third minute is fine. They are designed for intermittent use. Mine cycles about every 10min.

I use maybe a 25oz(0.75l) accumulator atm, been looking for a 1-2gallon one holding high pressure but that seems to be hard to find.

Rdubz said:

I just unplugged the pump still leaving the shut off closed so it's just pressure in the lines the gauge fell to 80psi n held it and I'm pretty sure that's the factory defualt from manufacturer on screw setting. So I don't know what that means because why does the pump have to work to keep a 95-120psi it wont stop at a number maybe. Is this how this pump works like said I'm just trying to learn , I have to run some test and add the tank see what's going on and also order the Regulator you just told me about

Click to expand...

You have the pump pressure and pressure for the psw(pressure switch). Typical range is 120psi on the pump and 80psi on the pressure switch. Builds pressure up to 120psi and starts again when it has been lowered to 80psi.

Factory settings I believe is 80psi on the pump and 40psi on the pressure switch.

Ok so it's normal than that while no water is being pumped it fluctuates between 95 and 120psi hits 95 jumps up and repeats ?

Wastei said:

Cycling every third minute is fine. They are designed for intermittent use. Mine cycles about every 10min.

I use maybe a 25oz(0.75l) accumulator atm, been looking for a 1-2gallon one holding high pressure but that seems to be hard to find.

Click to expand...

I thin

Wastei said:

Cycling every third minute is fine. They are designed for intermittent use. Mine cycles about every 10min.

I use maybe a 25oz(0.75l) accumulator atm, been looking for a 1-2gallon one holding high pressure but that seems to be hard to find.

Click to expand...

They are hard to find the best I found was 4 gal that had 3.2 gal holding capacity I did find find one that was 1-2 gallons it came with my reverse osmosis that I ordered that was the smallest one I found and couldn't order by it's self Have to order with the system but it's ok the 3.2 gal should be fine

iSpring T32M Pressurized Water Storage Tank with Ball Valve for Reverse Osmosis RO Systems, 4 Gallon,

Update : I got it working I’m just an idiot I didn’t realized 2 important things:
I shouldn’t have been trying to adjust the pump at all with out have the entire piping completed and tank attached it changed everything and probably broke 2 of my pressure sensor adjustment screws messing with it thinking it wasn’t working

Also don’t dead end your sprayers it makes more sense to make it closed loop.

the important thing is I figured it out!
ok so I tried 2 different size tanks and personally like the larger 4 gallon accumulator tank in continuous operation with 4 nozzles it will run 7 min give or take 10 seconds before the pump fills the tank again .
I still need to drill in bulkhead in bottom of chamber for drainage I think I might have to have 2 one on each side

also have a question when I shut off the sprayers the furthest 2 squirt a little piss stream (attaching pic ) is this going to be an issue and is there a fix?
Tried to snap pic quick but u can see the one on the left starts a stream.

Rdubz said:

iSpring T32M Pressurized Water Storage Tank with Ball Valve for Reverse Osmosis RO Systems, 4 Gallon,

iSpring T32M Pressurized Water Storage Tank with Ball Valve for Reverse Osmosis RO Systems, 4 Gallon, 1/4" Tank Valve Included : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement

iSpring T32M Pressurized Water Storage Tank with Ball Valve for Reverse Osmosis RO Systems, 4 Gallon, 1/4" Tank Valve Included : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement

www.amazon.ca

Click to expand...

Carefull - that tank has a max working pressure of 100 PSI. Thats low for an HPA tank, and below the max pressure setting on your pump. That makes it a dangerous choice. The tank I listed above has a max working pressure of 150 PSI.

Rdubz said:

Cycling every third minute is fine. They are designed for intermittent use. Mine cycles about every 10min.

Click to expand...

Those pumps are actually designed to run once - for 1 to 2 minutes - every few hours. They are intended to fill a holding tank in an RO system, then stay OFF until the tank gets empty - which is typically several hours.

They are still pretty reliable, even without an accumulator tank, but will last far longer if you have a tank.

Larry3215 said:

Carefull - that tank has a max working pressure of 100 PSI. Thats low for an HPA tank, and below the max pressure setting on your pump. That makes it a dangerous choice. The tank I listed above has a max working pressure of 150 PSI.

Click to expand...

Okay ya I guess I’ll have to by new ones or I’ll back em down to 90 but when pump is filling I think the pressure is below 90 but because I put exactly 99 in it when the pump is stopped it ready 100

Rdubz said:

Ok so it's normal than that while no water is being pumped it fluctuates between 95 and 120psi hits 95 jumps up and repeats ?

Click to expand...

Yes, but thats not an ideal situation.

Rdubz said:

Okay ya I guess I’ll have to by new ones or I’ll back em down to 90 but when pump is filling I think the pressure is below 90 but because I put exactly 99 in it when the pump is stopped it ready 100

Click to expand...

If you keep it to 100, it should be fine - BUT - if the pressure switch fails, and the pressure goes to 120, that could be very dangerous. Those tanks explode very violently. Thats why the tank max pressure should be above the pump max pressure. That way the tank is never in danger even if the switch fails. Those switches do fail.

I need to ask what your goals are with this system. My opinion on HPA and AA systems is that you are wasting your money unless you do it in a way that will get you fuzzy roots. If you dont do it correctly, you will end up with smooth roots - which you can get far cheaper and easier with LPA.

So - if you just want a cloner, and dont care about fuzzy roots, then everything you are doing is fine. Just be careful about the tank pressure being far enough above the max pump pressure and you are fine.

If you want fuzzy roots, then I have several suggestions.

Rdubz said:

First of all I had no idea I needed a pressure regulator I haven't even seen this suggested in anything your the first to tell me
Let me show u some pics so I can explain a little better so this is the setup also my goal here is to get the pressure dialed in before adding the accumulator tank

Click to expand...

You have a much better chance of getting fuzzy roots of the nozzles operate at a uniform pressure. The droplet size will go UP as pressure goes DOWN. Your nozzles will be making nice small droplets when the pressure is at 100 PSI, but as the pressure drops, the drops get bigger. Thats why the pressure reducer/regulator is used. Set it to just below the minimum pressure in the tank - in your case right now that looks like 95PSI? If so, I would set the regulator to 90 PSI.

That way your nozzles wil always be spraying at 90 PSI, and the droplets will always be the same size.

But only if you also fix two other problems. I will talk about them below.

Rdubz said:

I shouldn’t have been trying to adjust the pump at all with out have the entire piping completed and tank attached it changed everything and probably broke 2 of my pressure sensor adjustment screws messing with it thinking it wasn’t working

Click to expand...

yes - you need the entire system online or you dont know how it will actually work.

Rdubz said:

Also don’t dead end your sprayers it makes more sense to make it closed loop.

Click to expand...

No. This is part of the reason you have that run-on spray.

Rdubz said:

also have a question when I shut off the sprayers the furthest 2 squirt a little piss stream (attaching pic ) is this going to be an issue and is there a fix?

Click to expand...

Any excess tubing between the solenoid and the nozzles acts like a mini accumulator tank and pressure builds up inside. As soon as the solenoid closes, that extra build up keeps spraying. It causes wasted nutes if you are running drain to waste (you should be doing that), but more importantly it makes for wild fluctuations in droplet size.

The ideal situation is to have one solenoid for each nozzle. The solenoid also has to be as close to the nozzle as possible to eliminate that run-on spray.

Thats why your closed loop is a bad idea. It just makes for more run-on spray.

Rdubz said:

ok so I tried 2 different size tanks and personally like the larger 4 gallon accumulator tank in continuous operation with 4 nozzles it will run 7 min give or take 10 seconds before the pump fills the tank again .

Click to expand...

Bigger is better because your pump will cycle less often.

Again - be sure the max pressure is above the pump max pressure.

Larry3215 said:

You have a much better chance of getting fuzzy roots of the nozzles operate at a uniform pressure. The droplet size will go UP as pressure goes DOWN. Your nozzles will be making nice small droplets when the pressure is at 100 PSI, but as the pressure drops, the drops get bigger. Thats why the pressure reducer/regulator is used. Set it to just below the minimum pressure in the tank - in your case right now that looks like 95PSI? If so, I would set the regulator to 90 PSI.

That way your nozzles wil always be spraying at 90 PSI, and the droplets will always be the same size.

But only if you also fix two other problems. I will talk about them below.

Click to expand...

I didnt give you the full picture here.

You need to start with the nozzle pressure you want to run at. Those tefins should make ok to good droplet sizes at anywhere from about 80 PSI to 100 PSI. Higher is better because the droplets will be smaller.

But - you need to have a good spread between the minimum pressure in your tank and the max pressure. Otherwise the pump will be cycling too often.

You need to set the pressure reducer/regulator to the pressure you want the nozzle to run at. Lets say thats 80 PSI.

That means you want the accumulator tank set to have a MINIMUM pressure of at least 80 PSI. The pump should turn ON when the pressure drops to 80 PSI.

You want the tank MAXIMUM pressure to be as far above that 80 PSI as you can get it so the pump will cycle less often - BUT - still below the safe upper limit of the tank. If your tank has a max rated working pressure of 100, then dont go over that.

You also need to look at your solenoids. You dont want to run them too close to their maximum rated pressure. Most of the ones I have looked at are rated to about 100-115 PSI. Its best to run them a good 10% lower than the max pressure.

Larry3215 said:

I need to ask what your goals are with this system. My opinion on HPA and AA systems is that you are wasting your money unless you do it in a way that will get you fuzzy roots. If you dont do it correctly, you will end up with smooth roots - which you can get far cheaper and easier with LPA.

So - if you just want a cloner, and dont care about fuzzy roots, then everything you are doing is fine. Just be careful about the tank pressure being far enough above the max pump pressure and you are fine.

If you want fuzzy roots, then I have several suggestions.



You have a much better chance of getting fuzzy roots of the nozzles operate at a uniform pressure. The droplet size will go UP as pressure goes DOWN. Your nozzles will be making nice small droplets when the pressure is at 100 PSI, but as the pressure drops, the drops get bigger. Thats why the pressure reducer/regulator is used. Set it to just below the minimum pressure in the tank - in your case right now that looks like 95PSI? If so, I would set the regulator to 90 PSI.

That way your nozzles wil always be spraying at 90 PSI, and the droplets will always be the same size.

But only if you also fix two other problems. I will talk about them below.



yes - you need the entire system online or you dont know how it will actually work.



No. This is part of the reason you have that run-on spray.


Any excess tubing between the solenoid and the nozzles acts like a mini accumulator tank and pressure builds up inside. As soon as the solenoid closes, that extra build up keeps spraying. It causes wasted nutes if you are running drain to waste (you should be doing that), but more importantly it makes for wild fluctuations in droplet size.

The ideal situation is to have one solenoid for each nozzle. The solenoid also has to be as close to the nozzle as possible to eliminate that run-on spray.

Thats why your closed loop is a bad idea. It just makes for more run-on spray.



Bigger is better because your pump will cycle less often.

Again - be sure the max pressure is above the pump max pressure.

Click to expand...

Yes ! for fuzzy roots ,. Yes I'm very jelly when I see them ! But no I want to at least try! I love doing it , more passion than hobbie Plus we are in another lock down so I have the time !

Ok so I guess there is a lot of bad information out there and I see now the way you explained the closed loop almost like a pressure tank that's exactly whats going on going to have to change that for sure and the idea for a solenoid for each sprayer that's a great idea , maybe one day when I figure out how to build my own controller lol , one thing at a time. first I have to try get fuzzy roots lol . I was thinking for now I don't put any plants in the line of fire keep them away from the nozzles and I'm not waisting nutes in the cloner Im good there but and my plan is to run to waist yes I don't think it's going to help me if I recycle. too many other things to worry about

waiting on that regulator now it makes so much sense why I need that ! thank you again for taking the time to show me what's up !

I was wondering is it fine to use a sediment filter like this one or does it some how filter out essential minerals ?
Hydronix ICF-10Q Inline Coconut Filter 2000 Gal, 2-Inch OD X 10-Inch Length, 1/4-Inch Quick Connect https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00D04BXX6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_MBUaGbGF7ES26