I need help from the Guru of Growing. Please help!

Hey everyone. I am in desperate need of some sage advice and help with this grow. In the pictures there are 3 strains, 2 regen mothers (MK Ultra & LSD) which are the main subjects as of now, a couple of clones from the same mothers and a seedling of Shaman. The first grow with MK Ultra and LSD was a resounding success and can be seen in my previous posts. With the same 400w ML/HPS system(dialed down to 75% to reduce heat in there previous smaller cab) the 2 plants flourished and I was able to pull 150g (not bad in my eyes). The heat in the old cab stayed around 86F with a humidity of 55%. However upon moving to colorado and creating a bigger cab and transplanting the regenerated mothers into larger pots I have seen nothing but a steady decline not just in the mothers but in the clones which seemed to be doing fine for a while and most of all the seedling of Shaman. The medium has always been coco and I have water at an even ph of 7 before adding nutes and have a run off of 5.4 which seems very low. Temperature in the cab stays at a constant 72F and a humidity of 28% and I am stumped. I dont understand what the problem could be, LSD has always needed a bit more Cal Mag but for some reason its not responding to a higher dosage. Not to mention the seedling which just looks completely fried (suspecting nute burn, any suggestions on if its salvageable?). I have concerns because all of the plants aren't looking good, could it be environmental since the cab is in the basement. I have an exhaust from the top so there should be some fresh air flowing through. Im open to any and all suggestions.

Too much Cal mag. This seems to be happening a lot with people today. Too much cal causing potassium lockout. In turn a potassium def. Too much mag can cause Cal lock out too Flush and then feed with a compost tea with kelp meal in it.


Also with the yellowing and brown tips looks like a phos def too. Add guano to the tea too.

I am currently using General Hydroponics grow box, however my partner who is also caring for the plants thought it would be wise to also use epsom salt, 6ml of cal mag/gallon + 1teaspoon of epsom salt seems like it would definitely cause a calcium lockout. But if there is a Cal lockout how can there be a potassium lockout as well?

so you have added epsom salts and cal/mag? you should just add one or the other seems like you have over loaded on the mag now causing lockout, you can have more than one deficiency at same time

over fertilized nutrient lockout symptoms.

flush and feed a proper balanced nutrition or compost tea.

hyroot said:

Too much Cal mag. This seems to be happening a lot with people today. Too much cal causing potassium lockout. In turn a potassium def. Too much mag can cause Cal lock out too Flush and then feed with a compost tea with kelp meal in it.


Also with the yellowing and brown tips looks like a phos def too. Add guano to the tea too.

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basically. too much everything your giving them, and not enough nitrogen.

why?
all those plants are in a veg state, so they need buckets of nitrogen, and very little of anything else. trace amounts, really. if your adding anything else, (to me) its a waste. besides, the plants are small enough that small amounts over or under on a chemical can really screw things up, like causing burns. Id stop using all nutes except nitrogen, then start upping the nitrogen til they are thick, and lush, and big, and almost a dark-ish green, but not too dark. then keep doing that exact thing, til you switch to flower. (maybe start adding in more and more of the other nutes a week or 2 before you wanna go into flower.

also, keep adding in a little of PK, very little, just to help accelerate veg growth (helps with branches, roots, etc...), but very little. they need nitrogen, all the tops are green, and the bottoms fade to yellow.

Is it a concrete basement floor?

Are the pots on anything besides the Mylar?

If possible try and get your temps up to 75-76F and humidity between 45-60%. Temps above 80 should be avoided at all costs.
Hard to tell in the picture, but it looked as if you are planting in Tupperware? If that is the case, make sure the outsides are painted black to discourage light penetrating the roots. Roots hate light (basic knowledge).

After all that, looks like way to many nutes. Complete flush, then try your same regimen at like half strength.

IMO too little is always better than too much!!

1. See my "Tweeks" in Advanced and Moisture Stress pinned thread here,

2. What are the salts exactly? Seasoned growers work off NPK and micro values, not labels. Definately is a N deficiency which seems to be the norm around here,

3. You may have a root problem, like rot, insufficient healthy root mass. It's almost IMPOSSIBLE to water log a pot/plant IF you have plenty of foliage (with plenty of roots too) to wick off moisture. Now, since the mechanics of transpiration are pretty much not happening in your case, you've really got an "aw shit" going,

4. Per #3, if the root system is screwed up and looking at your plants suggests it is, there is no way proper uptake of elements can occur....another "aw shit",

Also, you seem to be throwing stuff at your plants hoping something sticks. That will only bring them down as you haven't defined exactly what they need, and what you're giving them is adding insult to injury. Check out a book or 2 on indoor plant culture and apply sound plant culture to your garden. To me, it looks like you have not yet mastered the basics and that includes temps, watering, plant nutrition.

Good luck,
UB

Just wanted to say thank you for good pictures .

I have water at an even ph of 7

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This is the problem ,you have to make the PH 5.8 going in. They are starved of N and Mg due to lockout which probably has got worse since you re located with new town water. Its either that or you not feeding enough.

pH is not the problem.

greencorral19 said:

The medium has always been coco and I have water at an even ph of 7 before adding nutes and have a run off of 5.4 which seems very low.

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So, do you know what your ph is after you add nutes?

What are you feeding your plants aside from cal mag? Are you using tap? RO?

I'm no guru, but I'll give it a shot.

This is what I would do... mix up some water to a ph of 6... exactly 6. Water your plants lightly... attempt to get as much water in them without any run off. Let them sit for about 30 minutes.
Then, go back and water them just a little more with ph of 6... exactly 6. Catch that runoff and measure the ph.

If it were my garden... and anything lower than 5.6 came back... I would not like what is going on in my root zone.... I would run a generous portion of ph 7 water through the pots. Then, I would water the plants with Dyna Gro 7-9-5, 2ml/gal, ph'd to 7. Do this right after you give the generous portion of water at 7... Then, let the plants chill for a little bit. Wait until they want water... Say, maybe the top inch of the coco is dry and the pot feels a little bit lighter... Then, water them again with a little bit stronger (3ml/gal) of Dyna Gro 7-9-5, ph'd to 5.8. Continue from there with nutrient solution ph'd to 5.8-6, AFTER adding nutes.

I've been in coco for quite some time... I bet if you do that, things turn around.
I think most problems in coco on RIU could be solved by some ph7 root drenches followed by some Dyna Gro 7-9-5 feedings.

If your ph (after testing that ph 6 run off water) is not 5.5 or lower, I would skip the drench part and just feed with 3ml/gal of Dyna Gro 9-3-6. Dyna Gro 7-9-5 is a nutrient def fix all in coco. I use a bit of H&G coco, as I like the resulting buds from it... but when N loads are needed (wk2-wk4 flower) or I see any def, I just use DG 7-9-5 and it always fixes the issue. I only use 9-3-6 when I have serious N deficiency, which rarely happens.

Just my suggestion... good luck.

... another possibility (pretty much the same, still a root zone issue) is that your roots are so fucked that they are just not able to make good growth happen.
This could be from poor drainage (seems unlikely in coco), root zone getting too dry, roots burnt to shit from highly acidic feedings..

This sort of thing is exactly why I only use grow bags these days... you can easily pull down the side of a bag and see what is going on with your roots,,,

This is not ideal, but I have done it before... You could take a razor blade and CAREFULLY cut one side of the pot from the top to about half way down... fold back the two sides of the cut and look at your roots... if they are brown, super thin, or non existent... there is your problem.

To close the pot back up use foil tape... after you finish this grow just throw that pot out.

I bet your roots are fucked... In the very unlikely case that you have healthy roots... then this is just a simple case off not applying a proper diet. Good NPK balance + your micros.

Hi UB. Would you still rec. Dyna-Gro with a non-hydro set-up? If so, what grow medium would you recommend? Proportions? Thanks. also tell m what you think about using: for veg state: dyna-gro foliage pro combined with Pro-Tekt
Then Bloom stage use Dyna-gro Bloom, Mag-Pro, and Pro-Tekt.
I havent decided my medium yet. and was also thinking about adding in some Nitrozime throughout beginning seedling phases and possibly added in with my 2 other dyna gro nutes during veg cycle..
Any thoughts ?? would love your opinion.

MJ.Asher said:

Hi UB. Would you still rec. Dyna-Gro with a non-hydro set-up? If so, what grow medium would you recommend? Proportions? Thanks. also tell m what you think about using: for veg state: dyna-gro foliage pro combined with Pro-Tekt
Then Bloom stage use Dyna-gro Bloom, Mag-Pro, and Pro-Tekt.
I havent decided my medium yet. and was also thinking about adding in some Nitrozime throughout beginning seedling phases and possibly added in with my 2 other dyna gro nutes during veg cycle..
Any thoughts ?? would love your opinion.

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I've been using a 18-4-9 slow release from start to finish.