Is rationing the answer?

papajock

papajock

Well-Known Member
One of the only ways to stop the rising cost of oil is to ration the amount of gasoline used by individuals. This will stimulate more public transportation usage and force the use of more energy efficient vehicles. Why this has not been considered by the government is a totally different issue. Profiteering by the US oil companies and the goverment officials that are invested heavily in oil are to blaim for the cost of gasoline. When the president is one of those people, you can look for very little pressure from the government to get the record setting profit takeing gasoline companies to back off. They are recieving big tax breaks for reasons that are benefitual to the president and his clan. Once threatned by the goverment to cut back on the tax breaks, there responce would have been recieved as a slap in the face by a president who really cared about the economy and well being of the citizens in the country he is in charge of. The gasoline companies simply said they would have to raise the price more to cover the loss. They claim to be using billions of dollars for research into other forms of energy, but are building new refineries instead of producing some more hydrogen pumps for the cars that are available today that use an alternitive fuel source. Seems to me it wouldnt take alot of money to develope a "at home" water treatment system for the use of a fuel cell car owner that produced its hydrogen from tap water. The only problem is it wouldnt benefit our president.

They say electing John Mcain as president is like having Bush back in. You can bet your ass he is a oil man himself. Please vote wisely this year and if you normally dont vote, you are partly to blaim for what happens in the next 4 years. Look how close it was last election, when the winner was not the popular vote (another issue that should be fixed).
 
ZenMaster

ZenMaster

Well-Known Member
papajock said:
One of the only ways to stop the rising cost of oil is to ration the amount of gasoline used by individuals. This will stimulate more public transportation usage and force the use of more energy efficient vehicles. Why this has not been considered by the government is a totally different issue. Profiteering by the US oil companies and the goverment officials that are invested heavily in oil are to blaim for the cost of gasoline. When the president is one of those people, you can look for very little pressure from the government to get the record setting profit takeing gasoline companies to back off. They are recieving big tax breaks for reasons that are benefitual to the president and his clan. Once threatned by the goverment to cut back on the tax breaks, there responce would have been recieved as a slap in the face by a president who really cared about the economy and well being of the citizens in the country he is in charge of. The gasoline companies simply said they would have to raise the price more to cover the loss. They claim to be using billions of dollars for research into other forms of energy, but are building new refineries instead of producing some more hydrogen pumps for the cars that are available today that use an alternitive fuel source. Seems to me it wouldnt take alot of money to develope a "at home" water treatment system for the use of a fuel cell car owner that produced its hydrogen from tap water. The only problem is it wouldnt benefit our president.

They say electing John Mcain as president is like having Bush back in. You can bet your ass he is a oil man himself. Please vote wisely this year and if you normally dont vote, you are partly to blaim for what happens in the next 4 years. Look how close it was last election, when the winner was not the popular vote (another issue that should be fixed).
Click to expand...
Bush is trying for hydrogen
Bush Touts Hydrogen, Pushes for Energy Bill

" Hydrogen is "the wave of the future," President George W. Bush said Wednesday during a visit to a hydrogen fueling station in Washington, D.C. The clean fuel offers the United States a road away from its increasing dependence on foreign oil, said Bush, who again called on Congress to pass a comprehensive energy bill.
"Congress has been talking too long about the energy bill," Bush said. "I'm getting a little tired of waiting … for the sake of energy independence, they've got to get me a bill."


And I support Bush so trying to demean McCain by saying he is the same as Bush is no insult.
 
We TaRdED

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
ZenMaster said:
Bush is trying for hydrogen
Bush Touts Hydrogen, Pushes for Energy Bill

" Hydrogen is "the wave of the future," President George W. Bush said Wednesday during a visit to a hydrogen fueling station in Washington, D.C. The clean fuel offers the United States a road away from its increasing dependence on foreign oil, said Bush, who again called on Congress to pass a comprehensive energy bill.
Click to expand...
Ya, thats a good cover up for his esoteric agendas. Of course Bush wants for the price of oil to plummet for the citizens. Wasn't/isn't he an oil man himself? Of course he wants his product to sell for much cheaper, why wouldn't he? lmao

Yes, you are right popajock! We could produce our own hydrogen power from the convince and privacy of our own homes. Its EXTREMELY EASY to extract hydrogen from our own homes... All we need is electricity, water, and a hydrogen generator- a hydrogen generator in its simplest form is two metal plates that conduct electricity. You could make a hydrogen generator by simple taking a 12 volt battery and putting some two leads(make sure they are not touching otherwise it would be a short) into the water, add some salt to help the process.

YouTube - HHO generator

A hydrogen generator would most likely cost under 200 dollars(and that would be for a nice unit) and it would provide renewable energy to power your car. The only cost that you would have to pay for is the cost of electricity and water. The price that you would pay for electricity would be roughly 1/50th of the price you would pay for gas, when talking about millage. Don't quote me on the exact ratio, but people would be saving billions of dollars a year!!

You could drive cross country with only using ~30gallons of water(depending on your vehicle) and it would only cost you roughly 40 dollars to convert water to hydrogen. You can run hydrogen in an internal combustion engine, its more efficient than gas and its only byproduct is water.

Edit- giving it a second thought, I'm sure that they would try and charge more than 200 dollars to a quality hydrogen generator. They can be really good at selling things in commercials, and I'm sure rich people would pay more. After all, we will/would be saving thousands in the future. But a hydrogen generator is nothing expensive nor complicated to build.

In its basic form, it is only metal plates that are separated by water, one plate is connected to positive and one is connected to negative. These plates are then placed in water and a voltage is applied and BLAM, you are producing hydrogen. Its really that simple.

:peace:
 
Last edited:
We TaRdED

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
AlphaNoN said:
Stumbled on this earlier: The Raw Story | Saudi Arabia rebuffs Bush on oil production
Click to expand...
Look at their smug faces. They are both laughing saying "I made a million dollars last month alone on oil... HAHAHHAHAHHA stupid people! Its great how we can keep raking in the money even when this hydrogen technology is know and would put us out of buisness! AHAHHAHA. Good work on keeping prices up"

Lmao.....:-|....... Good times aye?
 
ZenMaster

ZenMaster

Well-Known Member
Bush is rich, and will be rich even if we get off of oil. Why is it so hard to believe that he is genuine for his concern with America's unhealthy dependency of oil?
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
ZenMaster said:
Bush is rich, and will be rich even if we get off of oil. Why is it so hard to believe that he is genuine for his concern with America's unhealthy dependency of oil?
Click to expand...
Maybe because his buddies the Saudis and every other acquaintance are oil men. If you think that soundbite that he put on in Saudi Arabia was genuine, you are extremely deluded. "lower the price of crude", yeah right!
 
ZenMaster

ZenMaster

Well-Known Member
Very well, why is it that Bush is pushing hydrogen and you liberals are pushing taxes on Oil Companies? Which seems better for the future of America?
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
ZenMaster said:
Very well, why is it that Bush is pushing hydrogen and you liberals are pushing taxes on Oil Companies? Which seems better for the future of America?
Click to expand...
The type of hydrogen he is pushing is still controlled by the oil companies. What we need is the true water car, not fuel cells. BTW, I'd be fine with gas rationing. I could probably profit by selling most of my quota on the black market, ~LOL~.
 
Last edited:
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
The answer is not government rationing of gasoline. The answer is to keep government out of the supply channel and let the prices go where they may. As global demand for oil continues to rise, the prices will rise right along with it. As prices rise beyond where people are willing to pay, the people will do their own rationing either by driving less, or driving more fuel efficient vehicles. The point will be reached where business will develop a cost efficient method of powering our vehicles and a new form of transportation will take place. The key is to expand our thinking beyond where we are today. When people relied upon the horse and carriage, the vast majority couldn't think beyond that. Most today can't think beyond the internal combustion engine.

If I, who is one that is still amazed by the fact that airplanes can fly without propellers, why can't the rest of you see it? :mrgreen:

Vi
</IMG>
 
We TaRdED

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
ViRedd said:
When people relied upon the horse and carriage, the vast majority couldn't think beyond that. Most today can't think beyond the internal combustion engine.

If I, who is one that is still amazed by the fact that airplanes can fly without propellers, why can't the rest of you see it? :mrgreen:

Vi
</IMG>
Click to expand...
Ok, well what do you think we would/should substitute the ICE(internal combustion engine) for?

Just some facts that I know off the top of my head-
Fuel cells convert hydrogen into electricity(almost like solar panels convert sunlight into electricity-same principal.) so we would therefor most likely need an electric motor for the engine substitute.

I think we might be better off just running the hydrogen through the ICE because would could retrofit the present cars to work with the new fuel/hydrogen.

I'm not sure which way,through fuel cells or the ICE, would be more efficient of converting the hydrogen to usable power.


peace
 
We TaRdED

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
The type of hydrogen he is pushing is still controlled by the oil companies. What we need is the true water car, not fuel cells. BTW, I'd be fine with gas rationing. I could probably profit by selling most of my quota on the black market, ~LOL~.
Click to expand...
One thing that I'm not sure of is- if we can run exclusively off of water. We could run exclusively off of hydrogen, which is a fact. But as far as running off of water I am not sure. Let me explain why.

Water needs to be broken down into hydrogen and oxygen before it can be used. This process is know as electrolysis. Electrolysis takes energy in order for the conversion to take place- thus, and inefficiency. So it takes more energy to convert the hydrogen than the energy that we can harvest from hydrogen. So if we are losing power from this process how could this process perpetuate off of itself?

If I was studying this/got grant money, I would propose that, in order for the people to save the most money, we would need to have a hydrogen generator in our homes and just pay for the electricity and water.

Basically, if you buy a hydrogen generator you are buying a refinery for your house. Your crude oil would be water! lmao. Your cost(after you buy the 200 dollar hydrogen generaton) would only be that of water and electricity. Your savings.................... ENORMOUS!!!

But, If you wanted to go on really far trips you might need to fill up at 'hydro-gas' stations. But this price would still be cheaper than the price you are paying for gasoline! You would be getting, at least, 10 times more miles for your dollar.

We Tarded signing out! haha. If anyone has any questions maybe I could help answer them :D


.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
We TaRdED said:
One thing that I'm not sure of is- if we can run exclusively off of water. We could run exclusively off of hydrogen, which is a fact. But as far as running off of water I am not sure. Let me explain why.

Water needs to be broken down into hydrogen and oxygen before it can be used. This process is know as electrolysis. Electrolysis takes energy in order for the conversion to take place- thus, and inefficiency. So it takes more energy to convert the hydrogen than the energy that we can harvest from hydrogen. So if we are losing power from this process how could this process perpetuate off of itself?

If I was studying this/got grant money, I would propose that, in order for the people to save the most money, we would need to have a hydrogen generator in our homes and just pay for the electricity and water.

Basically, if you buy a hydrogen generator you are buying a refinery for your house. Your crude oil would be water! lmao. Your cost(after you buy the 200 dollar hydrogen generaton) would only be that of water and electricity. Your savings.................... ENORMOUS!!!

But, If you wanted to go on really far trips you might need to fill up at 'hydro-gas' stations. But this price would still be cheaper than the price you are paying for gasoline! You would be getting, at least, 10 times more miles for your dollar.

We Tarded signing out! haha. If anyone has any questions maybe I could help answer them :D


.
Click to expand...
Look up water car, then make your ubiquitous report.
 
We TaRdED

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
Look up water car, then make your ubiquitous report.
Click to expand...
If we could run off of straight water than GREAT! I've seen the vids before. I just know my way would work.

Theres something called conservation of energy- Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. If your running a car off of pure water you need to convert the water into hydrogen before you can use it. This conversion takes energy. The output that you get from your conversion is going to be less than the input energy because nothing is 100% efficient. Thus, from my point of view, you would not be able to perpetuate your driving.

But if you all ready have readily available hydrogen, its ready for use and you simply just drive.

The idea of running a car off of pure water(with no additional energy being applied except the car battery) is synonymous to driving a car with heads of corn. You can drive a car off of ethanol but you can not drive a car off of pure heads of corn. You need to refine the corn first, just as you need to refine the water..

You have been disappointing me Med... You are so headstrong about your opinions but don't know the mechanics behind your own logic.

:peace:
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Come on in the Water's Warm!
Water Car Speech & Music
Listen to the music while you read​
Water Powered Cars or Hydrogen/Oxygen Powered Cars, using 100% water as fuel is real. By spiltting water by electrolysis and creating hydrogen/oxygen gas, you can replace gasoline. We have been taught this is impossible! Engineers, scientists and professors may in fact tell tell you you're crazy to believe such non sense. They will also set out to prove you wrong. They base their laws of physics form 1825 thinking. Faraday's laws. Did you know that the first ICE engine ran on hydrogen from water? BMW has them! Hyunda will be making them. Japan indorses them. Many patents, inventions have been bought and there project is shelved, yes it is true. Some of the stubborn inventors who don't sell out disappear. Yes that's right. It happens in the US, Aus, NZ, UK and India. We are in a crunch to find alternative fuels. The pressure is on. War for oil is not the way to go. Talking politics about a hydrogen future that never comes, is not going to help either. Arthur C. Clarke explained how there were four stages in the way scientists react to the development of anything of a revolutionary nature.
1) "It's nonsense,"
2) "It is not important,"
3) "I always said it was a good idea," and
4) "I thought of it first."
If all ICE motors (Internal Combustion Engines) were converted to burn hydrogen and oxygen in the water, as fuel to propel our cars, trucks, semi's etc., we would no longer need gas stations, oil tankers, refineries, SMOG and war. The only problem would be that the large Oil Corporations would go under and SMOG would leave the planet for good. The Ozone would get healed and we would survive. God will then once again smile down on the Earth, instead of letting the powers to be, destroy it. If we stopped producing SMOG, the ozone and global warming and greenhouse effects would go away. The present US administration and DOE (US Dept. of Energy) seems to not want this to happen, they make too much money selling you gas and feeding you the media. Only outlaws drive water powered cars, according to our present laws. Why there are not making any SMOG for us to breathe. Fighting for oil under the sand never made any sense to me. They feed us a conspiracy about 19 Arabs with box cutter knives, that took down the Twin Towers, when in fact, C4 explosives , a planned demo. took them down. A bomb went off in the basement, before the first plane struck the North Towe

http://www.waterpoweredcar.com

There is so much more on this that I'm not going to argue with a brick. Do your own research. Peace you nudnick.​
 
We TaRdED

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
Ok, but that still didn't answer my main question..

You have to agree with me on some simple things;

1. You need to convert the water into its hydrogen and oxygen elements before it can be used as a fuel.

2. You need to apply power(do work) in order for you to convert the water into a fuel source.

3. You will lose energy(in the form of heat) in the conversion process and you will not be able to harvest as much usable energy as the applied energy(its not like a nuclear power plant were you convert mass into energy. E=MC^2)

4. You would most likely be using the cars alternator(some electric generator anyways) for the electric power source. This power source is also not 100% efficient.

So therefor you should be able to see my logic and also question 'how could a solely water powered car be self sustainable?' Where would the extra power come from in order to convert the water into a usable fuel source and also drive our vehicles.

Anyways, it just doesn't make sense. You expect this machine to not only produce enough energy to convert more water into fuel, but enough to drive down the highway too? If that were the case you could recycle the water 'exhaust' and put it back into the 'gas' tank and never have to worry about filling up again.

If hydrogen could make more energy than the applied energy than we could have water powered electric generators in our own homes. Just add water and let it produce electricity for our homes... ~Lol~ ... It just doesn't work like that.

My point being- is that it takes more energy to convert water into hydrogen and oxygen than what the hydrogen produces as a usable energy. You can not run a car off of pure water. You can run a car off of pure hydrogen that because it is readily available to work for you. Get it?

But, the cost of electricity that we would be spending to run our hydrogen generators would be NOTHING compared to the prices we are not paying for gas!!!!!!

hey feed us a conspiracy about 19 Arabs with box cutter knives, that took down the Twin Towers, when in fact, C4 explosives , a planned demo. took them down. A bomb went off in the basement, before the first plane struck the North Towe

Its funny even this guys believes 911 was an inside job. I believe only the people that don't question the gov't about 911 are the ignorant, extremely patriotic(deniers), stupid, and the ones that don't care.

And then if you believe there is a possibility that 911 was an inside job and the gov't is keeping that from us, it makes you wonder what else they are hiding up their selves as well.

medicineman said:
Come on in the Water's Warm!
Water Car Speech & Music
Listen to the music while you read​
Water Powered Cars or Hydrogen/Oxygen Powered Cars, using 100% water as fuel is real. By spiltting water by electrolysis and creating hydrogen/oxygen gas, you can replace gasoline. We have been taught this is impossible! Engineers, scientists and professors may in fact tell tell you you're crazy to believe such non sense. They will also set out to prove you wrong. They base their laws of physics form 1825 thinking. Faraday's laws. Did you know that the first ICE engine ran on hydrogen from water? BMW has them! Hyunda will be making them. Japan indorses them. Many patents, inventions have been bought and there project is shelved, yes it is true. Some of the stubborn inventors who don't sell out disappear. Yes that's right. It happens in the US, Aus, NZ, UK and India. We are in a crunch to find alternative fuels. The pressure is on. War for oil is not the way to go. Talking politics about a hydrogen future that never comes, is not going to help either. Arthur C. Clarke explained how there were four stages in the way scientists react to the development of anything of a revolutionary nature.
1) "It's nonsense,"
2) "It is not important,"
3) "I always said it was a good idea," and
4) "I thought of it first."
If all ICE motors (Internal Combustion Engines) were converted to burn hydrogen and oxygen in the water, as fuel to propel our cars, trucks, semi's etc., we would no longer need gas stations, oil tankers, refineries, SMOG and war. The only problem would be that the large Oil Corporations would go under and SMOG would leave the planet for good. The Ozone would get healed and we would survive. God will then once again smile down on the Earth, instead of letting the powers to be, destroy it. If we stopped producing SMOG, the ozone and global warming and greenhouse effects would go away. The present US administration and DOE (US Dept. of Energy) seems to not want this to happen, they make too much money selling you gas and feeding you the media. Only outlaws drive water powered cars, according to our present laws. Why there are not making any SMOG for us to breathe. Fighting for oil under the sand never made any sense to me. They feed us a conspiracy about 19 Arabs with box cutter knives, that took down the Twin Towers, when in fact, C4 explosives , a planned demo. took them down. A bomb went off in the basement, before the first plane struck the North Towe

http://www.waterpoweredcar.com

There is so much more on this that I'm not going to argue with a brick. Do your own research. Peace you nudnick.​
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Anyways, it just doesn't make sense. You expect this machine to not only produce enough energy to convert more water into fuel, but enough to drive down the highway too? If that were the case you could recycle the water 'exhaust' and put it back into the 'gas' tank and never have to worry about filling up again.

Almost the perfect scenario with the exception of a little evaporation don't you think? Yes I believe. The technology is being subverted by the Oil companies and auto mfgrs.. Just think. they could power everything with H2O, electric generators, etc. you could run your whole house from a 5KW generator powered by water, sweet eh? The big MFers will never let that happen, But I believe it is possible. Water the perfect fuel: Hydrogen for the explosive part, oxygen to supply the air and the exhaust, water vapor that could be captured and turned back into fuel. You can even use salt water. In fact you could use your car to purify salt water into drinking water. Sweet. Now lets us demand this technology be made available to us. It's real.
 
We TaRdED

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
YouTube - Water Powered Car

Unless Stan Meyers tapped into the 'zero point energy' with his specific apparatus, than I stand to be correct. I'm sure he knew a lot more than I do on the subject and he could be correct for all I know. If what he says his apparatus can do is true, than our energy crisis would be through FOR GOOD! Keep in mind that what hes claiming to happen is not the conventional electrolysis process only because he is allegedly harvesting a lot more hydrogen than what would normally be expected.

I don't know if this guy was onto something novel. I do think the oil companies are suppressing hydrogen technology to become commercially available, at a mass scale, until they can find a way to profit off of it at an enormous scale.

Just think. they could power everything with H2O, electric generators, etc. you could run your whole house from a 5KW generator powered by water, sweet eh?

As far as this ^^^^^ goes.... sorry MM, I just don't think that would work. We would have a better chance with something like this

YouTube - FREE ENERGY Home Generator -Zero Point Energy - Off the Grid

This seems more plausible than harvesting perpetual power from water. This guys magnetic generator seems like it could work to me because magnets are always exerting a force, and I think they came up with an idea on how to harvest it.

You can even use salt water.

Salt water actually conducts electricity better and makes hydrogen faster. The only problem with salt water is that is oxidizes the plates quicker. The more shit that is in the water the faster the plates become dirty and slows the process down. You can use stainless steel plates and wipe off the shit... Idk, But you want clean plates because they conduct electricity better.

Now lets us demand this technology be made available to us. It's real

Sadly enough, your version (to the best of my knowledge anyways) is not real, you've got it skewed. What I am telling you is real. The best way to implement hydrogen fuel into our society would be to retrofit current cars with some kind of hydrogen container and run the hydrogen hose to where it need be. Also, in order for us to save the most money we would have to produce our own hydrogen from our homes. We would need to buy a hydrogen generator which would be relatively cheap(compared to the price of gas anyways. It might cost 300 dollars, the most expensive part would be the stainless steel plates) and the generator could be as small as a microwave(actually it could be a lot smaller, but I'm thinking in practical terms, the smaller it is the longer you would have to wait for hydrogen. A generator the size of a microwave would pump out some serious HHO gas). If need be, on long trips we would have to go 'fill up' at a 'gas' station which would most likely be A LOT cheaper than gas anyways. And than we would be able to live in a cleaner happier world:mrgreen:


medicineman said:
Anyways, it just doesn't make sense. You expect this machine to not only produce enough energy to convert more water into fuel, but enough to drive down the highway too? If that were the case you could recycle the water 'exhaust' and put it back into the 'gas' tank and never have to worry about filling up again.

Almost the perfect scenario with the exception of a little evaporation don't you think? Yes I believe. The technology is being subverted by the Oil companies and auto mfgrs.. Just think. they could power everything with H2O, electric generators, etc. you could run your whole house from a 5KW generator powered by water, sweet eh? The big MFers will never let that happen, But I believe it is possible. Water the perfect fuel: Hydrogen for the explosive part, oxygen to supply the air and the exhaust, water vapor that could be captured and turned back into fuel. You can even use salt water. In fact you could use your car to purify salt water into drinking water. Sweet. Now lets us demand this technology be made available to us. It's real.
Click to expand...
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Coming in the near future is the Air Car. The pistons in the engine will be powered by compressed air that will drive the pistons. The air will be contained in "fuel cells." There will be a small gas powered engine that will pump the compressed air into the cells. Once fully charged with compressed air, up to 1000 miles can be driven on the air alone. Should be seeing something like this on the market within 2 to 5 years.

http://www.theaircar.com/acf/
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4251491.html
http://zeropollutionmotors.us/

In addition, Honda already has a car that runs on hydrogen. Honda also is close to perfecting a small hydrogen generator that will fit into your garage. You fill it up with water and its converted to hydrogen fuel. Here's a picture of Honda's hydrogen generator:




General Motors is getting in on the action too:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/10/03/gm-developing-home-based-hydrogen-refueling-station/

Its like I've said many times here in the forum about wealth creation ... If you help enough people get what THEY want, you will get what YOU want in return. :)

All of this kinda puts new meaning to the term, Fuck OPEC doesn't it? :mrgreen:

Oh, and here's another major benefit ... As the new technology gets closer to completion, OPEC, Mexico and Canada will be dropping the price per barrel of oil through the floor. They would do that now if they thought we were really serious about resuming oil exploration, drilling and refining in the U.S.

Vi
</IMG>
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top