Is the democratic party stupid, blind, clueless or is it based on ideology?

I just dont get it...

The American people are facing the largest tax increase in history and Harry Reid is running around trying to get some amnesty bill passed for illegal immigrants.

Now, I can understand that the lame duck democrats simply dont care... They are on the way out and have nothing to lose.

However... Because of the Democrats procrastination everyone receiving a weekly or bi-montly paycheck of significant size is going to see tens if not hundreds more dollars taken out of their checks in early January. This will be a HUGE psychological shock to the workers out there. It will make the tax increases real...

This only leaves an opening for the Republicans to come in after January and pass retroactive tax cuts. It will make them look good and if the Democrats try to block it they will look like the obstructionists.

I cannot figure out the reason the Democrats would allow themselves to get into this position.

At the rate they are going Palin could win in a landslide in 2012.

NLXSK1 said:

Is the democratic party stupid, blind, clueless or is it based on ideology?

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Of course it is based on ideology. So is the republican party and every other political party.

The American people are facing the largest tax increase in history and Harry Reid is running around trying to get some amnesty bill passed for illegal immigrants.

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No they aren't. You can't just say things and have them become true. Taxes are historically low. Just because Glenn Beck says something doesn't make it true.

Dan Kone said:

Of course it is based on ideology. So is the republican party and every other political party.



No they aren't. You can't just say things and have them become true. Taxes are historically low. Just because Glenn Beck says something doesn't make it true.

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Hey DAN!!!

I said the largest tax INCREASE in history. Numerically I am correct.

Glen Beck manages to say alot of true things even though MSNBC says it isnt so.

NLXSK1 said:

Hey DAN!!!

I said the largest tax INCREASE in history. Numerically I am correct.

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Well it's not a tax increase, it's an expiring tax cut that only applies to the wealthiest people in America. This tax cut was never even paid for, it's pure deficit spending and does virtually nothing to help the economy. Why do you care if Bill Gates has 60 billion dollars or 60billion 200million dollars? How does that effect you in any way?

Dan Kone said:

Well it's not a tax increase, it's an expiring tax cut that only applies to the wealthiest people in America. This tax cut was never even paid for, it's pure deficit spending and does virtually nothing to help the economy. Why do you care if Bill Gates has 60 billion dollars or 60billion 200million dollars? How does that effect you in any way?

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Because a poor person never gave me a job. It taxes rich people, it taxes capital gains, etc. And it is a tax increase. If your taxes go up that is called an increase. The extra 70 billion dollars per year that they are confiscating from wealthy people - many of those are small business owners is money that cannot be invested in jobs and businesses.

It *affects* me in the fact that the economy continues to be sluggish when we could be doing so much better. A rising tide lifts all boats, etc...

My question is why are the Democrats acting the way they are? How do they possibly think they can gain from this tactic of allowing all taxes to go up?

thats what dem's do, thats what repubs do....they are all crooks, and dont forget the tax increase expiration dosent affect the m as they are exempt from paying taxes.

What is a "wealthy person" these days? Where is the lower income level that will not feel the direct net pay reduction from this this?

I keep hearing that this will only affect wealthy people. In the end, it affects us all though. If wealthy people decide it is not worth starting businesses, where will taxes come from then?

they will still pay taxes just not business tax which pouts people in the unemployment line and relying on the government for their existence....socialism and communism follows after that. Obama is the anti-christ.

I am smoking some NYC Diesel I just picked up, ya its late but worth it. so pay me no mind,

Dems are retarded, Reps are ass wipes.

Go Libertarian!!!
It's like being a Liberal Republican, but without all the political baggage.

They just want our cash. So they don't have to cut federal funding for state programs... Or schools... Because the massive defense budget is completely untouchable. The middle management in the gov't couldn't ever be asked to leave... I mean, who will manage the interns and gov't owned vehicles.

NLXSK1 said:

Because a poor person never gave me a job.

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Neither has a rich person. Their companies did. And they didn't give you a job because rich people are nice and had money to burn, they did it because people were out buying that companies products or services. Middle class and poor people buy far more goods and services than rich people.

It taxes rich people, it taxes capital gains, etc. And it is a tax increase.

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No it doesn't. It's an expiring tax cut, not a new tax. It's expiring for a good reason too. It's really expensive, not paid for, and not productive.

Let me guess, you want Obama to lower taxes on the rich, lower the defecit, and fix the economy all at the same time right?

klmmicro said:

What is a "wealthy person" these days? Where is the lower income level that will not feel the direct net pay reduction from this this?

I keep hearing that this will only affect wealthy people. In the end, it affects us all though. If wealthy people decide it is not worth starting businesses, where will taxes come from then?

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If they dont prevent any of the tax increases people making as little as 30K will see significant deductions from their paychecks.

klmmicro said:

If wealthy people decide it is not worth starting businesses, where will taxes come from then?

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Wealthy people have more wealth right now than they have at any time in our countries history. If wealthy people having a lot of money was able to fix the economy, it would be fixed. They are doing extremely well right now.

How bad does the economy need to get before people realize they are using flawed logic?

Dan Kone said:

Neither has a rich person. Their companies did.

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I think that was his point Dan. The poor person is not going to start a business to create ANY job. The rich do that and for whatever their purpose, the end result is tax income from not only the business, but all the workers that populate the business.

Whether "tax cuts" are productive or not, there is a lot of evidence that high taxes equate to lower tax revenue. When you remove the incentive for people to build businesses that generate them, you have no base. Sure, you can hate the rich and try to take more from them, but that is a single gain.

Obama is no longer in a position to break further or fix anything. Relying on him will be a waste of time.

Dan Kone said:

Neither has a rich person. Their companies did. And they didn't give you a job because rich people are nice and had money to burn, they did it because people were out buying that companies products or services. Middle class and poor people buy far more goods and services than rich people.



No it doesn't. It's an expiring tax cut, not a new tax. It's expiring for a good reason too. It's really expensive, not paid for, and not productive.

Let me guess, you want Obama to lower taxes on the rich, lower the defecit, and fix the economy all at the same time right?

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Dan, you are just plain wrong...

My first real job was for a company of 6 people with 3 of them being family, it was a small business. I just stopped working for a husband and wife team just recently and they had a small business. In fact, a minority of the jobs I have held in life have come from *businesses* as you put it.

Middle class and poor people buy far more goods and services than rich people.

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I am not sure that is true, would you like to back that up with a link? And if you are correct so what? Do you think that the government deserves more money from rich people for some reason? Is there a basis for your attitude other than class warfare?

What do you think rich people do with their money? Do you think most of them have piles of gold sitting under their beds just hoarded? Think about it.... Rich people either spend the money they have, or they invest it in businesses or in stocks, etc... Their money is working for the economy, it is not simply in suspension somewhere.

How many jobs did Bill Gates have to create to become a billionare?

It is not an expiring tax cut as the government does not own the money that people produce. It will be taking more of that money and that is a tax increase. You can play word games as much as you want but if my paycheck goes from $600 to $500 I am going to consider that a tax increase, I would be insane not to.

I want Obama to do the exact opposite of what he is doing. His policies and messages have caused panic and confusion in the business sector. It is less than 6 weeks from the new year and the businesses dont know what their tax rates are going to be. Obamacare is so popular that his majesty has granted about 110 waivers to companies with enough influence or lobbiests on regulations.

We are in the middle of a recession. What businesses need is some confidence in tax rates and lack of additional regulation so they can start investing the 1.8 trillion dollars that is sitting on the sidelines. He needs to stop beating up the very people that create jobs and make loans that run the economy. For the first time in decades and for 3 years running the country has had a net loss of small businesses. This is the exact wrong direction to go if we want to see an unemployment rate below 6% in this decade.

Maybe he could play some more golf... He has already done more of that in less than 2 years than Bush did in all 8 of his.

Dan Kone said:

Wealthy people have more wealth right now than they have at any time in our countries history. If wealthy people having a lot of money was able to fix the economy, it would be fixed. They are doing extremely well right now.

How bad does the economy need to get before people realize they are using flawed logic?

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And the government is over 13 trillion dollars in real debt with hundreds of trillions in paper debt on the books. Yet you seem to think that throwing money at the monster will fix something. Dont you get it? The more they receive the more the government overspends. You could take 100% of the money from the rich people you keep talking about and still not cover the deficit.

And the politicians have got you hating the wealthy while they destroy the economy of America.

nx is avoiding the truth.

the rich have never been richer, and the economy is in the shitter.

he keeps calling it the largest increase in history, while ignoring the fact that not raising taxes will be blowing 700 billion dollars on our deficit.

he doesn't understand that giving 1% of the population a tax cut means that everybody, rich, poor, middle class will essentially be taking out a 2,000 dollar loan, just so the rich can keep their tax CUT.

it's not really standing up for the good of the majority of the people.... it's looking out for a few rich men....

and he'll still say keeping taxes at current rates is a good idea.....

redivider said:

nx is avoiding the truth.

the rich have never been richer, and the economy is in the shitter.

he keeps calling it the largest increase in history, and not raising taxes will be blowing the biggest hole in our deficit in history.

he doesn't understand that giving 1% of the population a tax cut means that everybody, rich, poor, middle class will essentially be taking out a 2,000 dollar loan, just so the rich can keep their tax CUT.

and he'll still say keeping taxes at current rates is a good idea.....

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I am avoiding the truth? ROFLMAO!!! The point of the post is about the Democrats avoiding the truth.

The Dem's just got spanked... They lost over 60 seats in the house and congress.

Obama wants to tell you it is because of the economy stupid...

Yet Harry Reid is trying to get the Dream act passed while ignoring tax cuts for all Americans.

There has never been a time where tax increases created jobs.

Since the election Obama has been flying around the world getting snubbed by one world leader after another while getting chastized about the fed's monetary policy.

Meanwhile, unemployment continues to bobble around 10% and the Dem's bright idea is to extend unemployment benefits. - HOW MUCH IS THAT GONNA COST? It doesnt really matter because immediately after passing paygo legislation the Dem's ignored it and continued to overspend with no accountibility on how to pay for it...

Now, the Republicans havent been angels either, I admit that. Bush fucked the pooch on Iraq and TARP among other things. However, putting bad policy on Viagra has not been helping out Obama much has it?

klmmicro said:

I think that was his point Dan. The poor person is not going to start a business to create ANY job. The rich do that and for whatever their purpose, the end result is tax income from not only the business, but all the workers that populate the business.

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You do realize that the countries wealth has never been so concentrated in the hands of the wealthy to the extent it is now and there are still no jobs?

We are talking about a 3% adjustment to the richest people in this country who are already doing very well while everyone else is barely getting by. It's insane to think a class of people who's never been wealthier than they are now are not creating jobs because they can't afford it.

They will create jobs when people can afford their goods and services.

Whether "tax cuts" are productive or not, there is a lot of evidence that high taxes equate to lower tax revenue.

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That is simplistic to the point of being meaningless. "tax cuts" in general doesn't increase revenue. Tax cuts to the top 1% decrease revenue significantly.

Also it's not true, it just sounds good. There is an unproven theoretical diminishing return but that doesn't kick in until the tax rate is about 50-60%. It also applies to raising taxes on the general population of consumers, not the wealthy elite.

When you remove the incentive for people to build businesses that generate them, you have no base.

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The incentives were removed when we started transferring the countries wealth from the middle class to the rich so people can't afford as many goods/services as they used to.

Sure, you can hate the rich and try to take more from them, but that is a single gain.

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It's not about hating. It's about having some sense. The rich are doing better now than at any time in our counties history while everyone else's lives are going to hell. They've got to take one for the team this time.

This is the best thing that could have happened, no one will agree on anything. No more new laws or regulations will get passed, we may resume our lives for the next 2 years.

NLXSK1 said:

And the government is over 13 trillion dollars in real debt with hundreds of trillions in paper debt on the books

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And you want to make that problem worse by giving more money to billionaires?

Don't ask for tax cuts that are paid for out of deficit spending and then complain about the deficit. It makes your viewpoint seem inconsistent and poorly thought out.