LED grow and the buds seem "airy", not dense

First grow for me, in a 4x4 tent, and I used a combination of the ProGrow 400 LED, and some CFL's to fill in the lower levels. I grew 4 different plants, and they all came in fine, THC levels seem strong, but I'm curious if others have dealt with a similar issue. Not sure if it's related to growing with LED, or something else.

I got a lot of buds off the plants for the most part, but when dried they are very light, not a dense bud at all. On one plant, (AMS) I had over 70 buds, but if I weighed the final product it would be less than 2 ounces. I know when I have purchased buds before, they are very solid buds.

Curious what I can do to make sure the next grow is even better. I did prune out the sun leaves, used FoxFarms nutrients during the flowering stage, proper watering, grew in a potting soil/vermiculite/peat mix, checked pH, etc. TIA for any assistance!

How big where ur pots and cfl and leds do produce airy buds

My opinion (you asked).

Never, unless it is essential, cut off the 'sun leaves'. They are there to collect light and absorb stress, mistakes, disease and other problems (they are the first to go and a warning signal. Without them the plant attacks the next leaves in line). FOr decades I have cut them off, and left them, harvest after harvest.. my conclusion? Even (especially) in low light situations, they are there FOR your buds.. not against them..

Your plant, by it's very nature, will kick ANY leaves it feels are not essential to it's one goal in life 'reproduction (big buds)'.

This was your big mistake. (Mistake being relative, you said you had a harvest, so it wasn't mistakes, you would of had NOTHING without what you did, so fuck it, you did excellent).



This is all my opinion and anecdotal experience. This is not an assault on anyone who has differing results.

I read another forum/website about trimming and growing, and his recommendation was to trim (and everything we read on the internet is true, correct?). That being said, I didn't prune 2 of the plants, the other 2 were pruned/trimmed. Basically the same results on all 4 plants.

Could the weakness of the LED light be the "culprit"?

pots were gallon size, certainly didn't seem root bound when I harvested, still lots of room to grow there.... checked pH regularly, and I'm on good quality well water, so don't think that would be an issue.

It's not the weakness of LED's...it's the weakness of YOUR LED's. Airy buds is caused by a few thing, and low light is the most common. Many LED's have a low light output and try do disguise it with spectrum and ticks. BUt the fact is despite there spectrum there is still a major lack of light. If you had a par meter you would see that you simply don't have enough light.

All that being said it, is the brand of led's that is putting out low output...not LED technology. Because of the rip offs in the market, LED's take a good amount of research and knowledge before you are sure you have one that will perform. The ones that do perform are putting out the same amount of light as hps plus in a better spectrum.

Also, 1 gallon pots are really holding you back too. Even if they don't seem root bound bigger containers=bigger yields. With low light and small containers you were destined for the results you got.

Two things:
1- The strain
2- The environment

xstreamrider said:

Could the weakness of the LED light be the "culprit"?

Click to expand...

That is exactly what the problem is. The vast majority of growers use HID and it is not because they are conformists. It is because HIDs have enough lumen power to get the job done. LED proponents like to go on about "spectrum" but if spectrum were so very important, then, in theory, HPS HIDs would not be very effective. In reality, HPS is as good as it gets thereby proving that spectrum is not something you need to worry about.

If HID is not possible for you, then the next best thing is T5 fluorescent.

The problem with your answer is that led tech is exploding faster than computer RAM. 2 years ago you were 100% correct, but no more, IF/WHEN the buyer is educated you can get awesome results with led, without buying a name brand panel.
.
I have 2 @ 2x 4 tents, one is HOT5 (total wattage 432w) using a variety of specialty aquarium bulbs, the other using a combination of A19 led globes and 18w WW led tubes. Total wattage ~ 115w.

Here's pics from each tent. Sophia, from LED tent is virtually as full as Melanie (from HOT5), but at the moment Sophia is ~ 2" taller

HOT5
View attachment 2828852

LED
View attachment 2828853View attachment 2828854

fg2020 said:

That is exactly what the problem is. The vast majority of growers use HID and it is not because they are conformists. It is because HIDs have enough lumen power to get the job done. LED proponents like to go on about "spectrum" but if spectrum were so very important, then, in theory, HPS HIDs would not be very effective. In reality, HPS is as good as it gets thereby proving that spectrum is not something you need to worry about.

If HID is not possible for you, then the next best thing is T5 fluorescent.

Click to expand...

I did a side-by-side of a BlackStar500 clone (360w), and a new 600w HPS digital. They produced the same yield, the LED was cooler but it was in winter, so i didnt care. The LED also produced tighter/denser nugs. The tops were 10"-20" from the LED and HPS.

The thread title alone answered your question.

Wet

Yo tags is spot on about bootsy ass lights. I have the xml model and 3 diamond from advanced led and i have rock hard buds now. I started with a weak ass sunshine systems led and its night and day how they perform.

Fg2020 have u ever used a led? ur smokin if u think t5 is the nxt best thing from hid lol. i have 830 watts in a 5x5 on a perpetual and i yeild a qp a weak with 18 plants crammed in there and 2 gallon air pots and i guaranteed my quality of bud is killin urs with led get educated bruh shits real.

jbizness said:

i guaranteed my quality of bud is killin urs with led get educated bruh shits real.

Click to expand...

hahah this shit made me lol.



Anyways, if you have a Progrow 400, it's not a lack of light causing your airy buds. That (which is 250w full spectrum), supplemented with CFL's, is MORE than enough to grow some high quality dense nugs. That is not a cheap LED. The problem lies either in the genetics, high temps, or harvesting too early.

@007,
what company makes the LED?

Until I personally see a grow using LED only or LED & CFLs produce weight
I will stick with HPS.

Dogenzengi said:

@007,
what company makes the LED?

Until I personally see a grow using LED only or LED & CFLs produce weight
I will stick with HPS.

Click to expand...

it was a alibaba clone of the BlackStar 500, $280 - free shipping. here is one spot, the same strain under the LED was denser. The downside to LED is that some burn out and need replacing. It costs me $5 per bulb and 10-15 minutes of time. I have spent $15 on replacement bulbs in about 5k hours, still bright as fug but a downside - not good direction. They shine a little like a spotlight. I suggest a LED that spreads it`s bulbs out slightly further and not so tightly packed in a close range. Bigger is Better..





LED - 3 weeks in, my own hybrid of (SensiSeeds) NL#5/Haze x Tooty Fruity.

Then I suggest to sub to my "Hear Ye..." thread, comparing both LED & HOT5 everything else the same.

My partner ordered 2 @ 48w 2 x 2 WW panels for me,. Once they get here I will put them overhead and move the shop lights down for side lighting. It should be quite a show

Dogenzengi said:

@007,
what company makes the LED?

Until I personally see a grow using LED only or LED & CFLs produce weight
I will stick with HPS.

Click to expand...

jbizness said:

i guaranteed my quality of bud is killin urs with led get educated bruh shits real.

Click to expand...

This is why people hate the forums...no need to bash personally or be big headed. Just show pics and numbers and let haters hate and for people who recognize greatness, throw a like or +rep there way.

BygonEra said:

hahah this shit made me lol.
Anyways, if you have a Progrow 400, it's not a lack of light causing your airy buds. That (which is 250w full spectrum), supplemented with CFL's, is MORE than enough to grow some high quality dense nugs. That is not a cheap LED. The problem lies either in the genetics, high temps, or harvesting too early.

Click to expand...

Not sure how you come to prorow is a quality unit...but they are junk and you can get the same junk direct from china for 1/2 the price...and not a knock off, the same exact thing.

Even cheap blacksatrs are crap. 007 got great results...but then had to fix...that equals crap to me(quality still counts). If you buy a good american panel it will last for the whole 5yrs it's supposed to with zero issues except maybe a dirty fan.

Dogenzengi said:

@007,
what company makes the LED?

Until I personally see a grow using LED only or LED & CFLs produce weight
I will stick with HPS.

Click to expand...

You are just scared to try something new. And that is understandable.
My first question to you is WHY(not they yield better) do hps work so much better???
Well the answer is because hps put out more light(µmols) than led's, simple as that. Photons(measured in µmols) is what what plants use and need. LED's tryied to argue that there spectrum can make up for the lower light output by having more usable photons, but if there is still not enough µmols, then the yield will still be low no matter what.
Well if an led had a more output with no tricks(meaning at the same hight it had equal or higher output readings(µmols) across the whole canopy.... would you use it and think that it will out/equal yield???

All this back and forth between HID and LED's makes me anxious to get my Lumigrow 325 light fired up. Used a 1000w MH light in the past and am curious how the 325 will hold up. The Lumigow pulled a real 325 watts at full power on my killa watt meter btw.