Someone show me a 5' plant under a led that yields more than a 5' plant that was vegged under a MH for the same time as the led and flowered under a hps, once I see that then il leave the 20th century. Why is heat always the argument? We do know about exhaust fans dont we? Im in south florida, its 85 outside today and my central AC is set at 76, my 4x4 tent is running at 81 12" below my 600 MH in a open hood with a 6" exhaust fan running, come flower il close the hood and it will run at 78-79, pretty simple problem to solve.
LED, MH or HPS for veg , please tell meyour experience and preference
- Thread starter red eyes420
- Start date
phantombuds
Member
+1 to this. I can see using led or cfl for seedlings but for vegging and flowering mh/hps is king.
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
you guys are fools to believe that HPS/MH are the end all of lighting. Sorry to break it to you but there's such thing as a LIGHT EMITING PLASMA (yes like the plasma the sun is made of). USING a LEP light with LED side lighting you can easily destroy any yield/nug quality a hps/mh light can hope to achieve.
Who said anything about MH/HPS being the end all? Tell me about your plasma lights with led side lighting. How much did the set up cost and what were your yield increases and power savings? Got a pic of this set up you have?
dbkick
Well-Known Member
LEP has such huge holes in the spectrum I don't know where they get off calling it full spectrum.
dbkick
Well-Known Member
But truthfully(even though I sold almost every led panel I have) LED in the right band would be my choice for veg.
I'm thinking of going with induction instead but I'm still undecided.
Plasma was my first choice but I'll be damned if I'm gonna spend a grand on a light that has to have some form of supplemental lighting to work well.
I'm thinking of going with induction instead but I'm still undecided.
Plasma was my first choice but I'll be damned if I'm gonna spend a grand on a light that has to have some form of supplemental lighting to work well.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
I run induction and led I have 3 induction / led lights over a 11 x 5. 1400 watts total. 2 over head and one vertical in the center. I get big dense buds. So much trichome development its ridiculous. Thats from the uv-b and the 660 deep red leds. Then have one led panel on the other side of the room . I'm building up the led side over the next couple months. My inductions have a 10 year warranty 460 watts, covers a 5x5. My led has a lifetime warranty and 155 watts that covers a 3x3 . They all put out hardly any heat. I don't have to replace any bulb for 10 years.
It's not just about heat. Its about longevity, electrical savings, and performance. I'm covering more area than 2 1000's can. Producing the same size buds but denser and better quality. I'm saving $700 a year in electricity plus $200 a year in bulb replacement. for a 10x5 I wouldn't use any other lights.. I ran hps for over 10 years. If I ran hid again I would run cmh over hps any day. . Philip allstart 860w cmh. Highest par bulb on the market. Kicks the shit out of any 1000w hps.
theres hundreds of grows that have replaced all their 1000w's with induction /led's. I know one that replaced 10 1000w with 15 induction / led. Cost alot of money upfront. Now they are saving over $6000 a year in electricity and bulb replacement. In the long run it would cost over $5000 more to run
2 1000's over 10 years including purchase price of my 3 inda gro induction / led lights
It's not just about heat. Its about longevity, electrical savings, and performance. I'm covering more area than 2 1000's can. Producing the same size buds but denser and better quality. I'm saving $700 a year in electricity plus $200 a year in bulb replacement. for a 10x5 I wouldn't use any other lights.. I ran hps for over 10 years. If I ran hid again I would run cmh over hps any day. . Philip allstart 860w cmh. Highest par bulb on the market. Kicks the shit out of any 1000w hps.
theres hundreds of grows that have replaced all their 1000w's with induction /led's. I know one that replaced 10 1000w with 15 induction / led. Cost alot of money upfront. Now they are saving over $6000 a year in electricity and bulb replacement. In the long run it would cost over $5000 more to run
2 1000's over 10 years including purchase price of my 3 inda gro induction / led lights
Yodaweed
Well-Known Member
I been looking at the inda gro induction lights and the chameleon LEP, right now I have 4 panel LEDs and one square LED along with a HPS light. Like hyroot I use the UV-B bulb on my LED to increase resin production. Looking to get a main light as well but I'm saving up and hoping that chameleon comes out with a 500w LEP which will be nice for my main grow light. I have used HPS/MH ,CFL, and T5 lighting. I have found if you use leds combined with another source the yields and quality is higher.
phantombuds
Member
Most of everything you've said is either hearsay or straight up just your opinion. I'm not calling you a liar, but for things like "hundreds of grows that have replaced all their 1000w's with induction / leds", where's the proof on that? I could say I've banged hundreds of hella hot hookers and THEY PAID ME. No proof. I've seen grows (HID) with dense ass buds, with beautiful trichs all over it. IMHO it's more the grower than anything that determines the health and trich development. I totally agree with you that RUNNING LED/Induction is cheaper when it comes to electricity bills, but low up front cost is hands down HID. Proven track record? Hands down HID. Just my .02. Peace.
BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
The OP poster went with my idea.... So all you LED fan boy trolls can go jump in a lake.... Unless of course you live in California, in which case go jump in a sandbox with your LED lights and let the cat do it's job.
frizzlegooch
Well-Known Member
Lol i wonder if whoever posted this thread is divulging any useful information..
I got lost already in the LED bullshit but ben is crackin me up +rep
I got lost already in the LED bullshit but ben is crackin me up +rep
BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
The thing is I went to HT garden supply and priced their LED's, even the manufacturer of the most powerful LED light in the world won't compare it to HID, their claim? We are the manufacturers of the most powerful LED lights in the world, beating all other LED manufacturers par watts lighting sources.
on top of that , it's a 800 watt light, 3 watts per bulb, and costs 800 DOLLARS!
I can buy a Phantom Hydrofarm digital for under 400 and in fact did so last month.
i think the key factor on indoor lighting is intensity at source, sure you can have the color perfect, but if it's not intense enough, it won't amount to shit.
on top of that , it's a 800 watt light, 3 watts per bulb, and costs 800 DOLLARS!
I can buy a Phantom Hydrofarm digital for under 400 and in fact did so last month.
i think the key factor on indoor lighting is intensity at source, sure you can have the color perfect, but if it's not intense enough, it won't amount to shit.
BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
hum shaddup, I wasn't looking at ht's lights I was looking at the Agromax that HT carries... Look, I don't give a flying fuck about manufacturer when I know those lights are 800+ dollars..... And the most expensive digital is half the price, and magnetic ballasts half the price of digitals.
You want to argue that Agromax is terrible? You're a fucking idiot!
You want to argue that Agromax is terrible? You're a fucking idiot!
hyroot
Well-Known Member
^^^Agromax is htg's brand . Htg owns that name. Now the agro max led's are actually rebranded Apollo led's from cidly. They use lower quality bin led's like epistar and epiled. They max out their led's to 700mA causing them to fail early on.. My first led was an Apollo. There's a handful of china direct led companies that are no good. The only china direct company that is good imo is evergrow lighting.. They use epistar led's . But also bridgelux. They drive their led's softer at 500mA. They have better quality pcb.
aside from china direct there's 3 companies that are. Above the rest. That will out last and outperform all other companies of led and hid. They use the very best quality parts. Apache tech. Area51 , Hans.
then there is induction. Most of the companies make poor quality lights. Their ballasts continually fail. Some have poor spectrums lacking deep red and an over abundance of green. There is only one induction company among the other 50 or so companies that uses high quality parts and stands behind their 10 year warranty. That's Inda Gro
for hid the best 2 bulbs / lights are mad by Philips and are CMH. Allstart line 860w and 330w. Highest par and cri rating of any light.
there are shady hid companies that lie about their products like solis tek. Their bulbs do not put out UV and they lie about their spectral output. They obviously lie about cri too. The cri rating on the 400w and 1000w are 70 and 75 where the 600 is 65 cri. Yet they supposedly have the same spectrum. Therefore the cri rating would be the same on all bulbs.
par is photosyntheticall available radiation. Measurement of photons given off by a light source. Measured in umole/s. The sun at midday is 2000 umole/s at the surface of the ground.
cri - color rendering index. The higher the cri the more more even the spectral distribution. The more even the spectral distribution in combination with high par numbers the better the performance.
intensity is measured in lumens and has nothing to do with plant growth. Cree and Nichia led's put out more lumens per watt than any hps. Have more intensity.
the number of watts don't mean a thing. Its all a about spectral output.
Ushio , horfilux, digilux all have a cri of around 35. Allstart CMH have cri of 90-93. Cree leds cri is 80 and inda gro bulbs about 90. The par ranges are about the same fo all lights. The hps deplete more further away. Led par numbers drop off towards the outer edge of the canopy. That's why multiple smaller panels are better than one large panel.
leds are here to stay and induction too. Not just in growing. But everywhere. Cars, city scapes, buildings, offices, signs, street lights, etc.
get with it or get left behind.
hps has 5-10 years maybe left in the grow market. They are obsolete everywhere else. There is so much money backing hps companies and they own all the other companies too. Its almost political..lol. JP Morgan is of one company that owns the majority of mercury mines. Which are used for hps. They have owned them since the 1800's. Jp morgan himself funded the first design of induction in 1886. He was not So happy with the longevity. He thought he would lose money from his mines. Of those lights were released. Instead he paid to have all production florescent lighting banned from the U.S. And commisioned incandescent and hps. Then later the E.P.A banned them. hydro shop will NOT say anything bad about hps. Or their products could be pulled. The hydro shop industry can be very shady. Alot of nutrient and lighting companies have secret shopper / spies. Cana and hydrofarm is notorious for that. If anything is being bad mouthed or sold to cheap. The spies report back and products get pulled.
you can get a 1000 w and fans for $600. Then $100 every 10 months for a new bulb. Extra $85-$100 a month in electricity. And $200-$300 every few years for a new ballast. Where inda gro has a 10 year warranty and area51 has a lifetime warranty. The lights have years and years of longevity. No bulb and ballast replacement. Electrical savings. In the long run induction and led are cheaper.
aside from china direct there's 3 companies that are. Above the rest. That will out last and outperform all other companies of led and hid. They use the very best quality parts. Apache tech. Area51 , Hans.
then there is induction. Most of the companies make poor quality lights. Their ballasts continually fail. Some have poor spectrums lacking deep red and an over abundance of green. There is only one induction company among the other 50 or so companies that uses high quality parts and stands behind their 10 year warranty. That's Inda Gro
for hid the best 2 bulbs / lights are mad by Philips and are CMH. Allstart line 860w and 330w. Highest par and cri rating of any light.
there are shady hid companies that lie about their products like solis tek. Their bulbs do not put out UV and they lie about their spectral output. They obviously lie about cri too. The cri rating on the 400w and 1000w are 70 and 75 where the 600 is 65 cri. Yet they supposedly have the same spectrum. Therefore the cri rating would be the same on all bulbs.
par is photosyntheticall available radiation. Measurement of photons given off by a light source. Measured in umole/s. The sun at midday is 2000 umole/s at the surface of the ground.
cri - color rendering index. The higher the cri the more more even the spectral distribution. The more even the spectral distribution in combination with high par numbers the better the performance.
intensity is measured in lumens and has nothing to do with plant growth. Cree and Nichia led's put out more lumens per watt than any hps. Have more intensity.
the number of watts don't mean a thing. Its all a about spectral output.
Ushio , horfilux, digilux all have a cri of around 35. Allstart CMH have cri of 90-93. Cree leds cri is 80 and inda gro bulbs about 90. The par ranges are about the same fo all lights. The hps deplete more further away. Led par numbers drop off towards the outer edge of the canopy. That's why multiple smaller panels are better than one large panel.
leds are here to stay and induction too. Not just in growing. But everywhere. Cars, city scapes, buildings, offices, signs, street lights, etc.
get with it or get left behind.
hps has 5-10 years maybe left in the grow market. They are obsolete everywhere else. There is so much money backing hps companies and they own all the other companies too. Its almost political..lol. JP Morgan is of one company that owns the majority of mercury mines. Which are used for hps. They have owned them since the 1800's. Jp morgan himself funded the first design of induction in 1886. He was not So happy with the longevity. He thought he would lose money from his mines. Of those lights were released. Instead he paid to have all production florescent lighting banned from the U.S. And commisioned incandescent and hps. Then later the E.P.A banned them. hydro shop will NOT say anything bad about hps. Or their products could be pulled. The hydro shop industry can be very shady. Alot of nutrient and lighting companies have secret shopper / spies. Cana and hydrofarm is notorious for that. If anything is being bad mouthed or sold to cheap. The spies report back and products get pulled.
you can get a 1000 w and fans for $600. Then $100 every 10 months for a new bulb. Extra $85-$100 a month in electricity. And $200-$300 every few years for a new ballast. Where inda gro has a 10 year warranty and area51 has a lifetime warranty. The lights have years and years of longevity. No bulb and ballast replacement. Electrical savings. In the long run induction and led are cheaper.
BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
Uhm, Agromax is manufactured by High Yield Lighting a totally different and seperate company from HT Garden Supply.. And that wasn't the fucking point to begin with and you damn well know it you stupid little LED trolling moronic asshole. The point was the price comparisons.......
Which you didn't get right in an effort to justify your lame assed opinion of LED and the promotion of it as a viable alternative to PROVEN methods.
I will repeat this again.... I recently purchased an entire 1000w system, ENTiRE... Meaning bulb, digital ballast, and a VERY nice hood for under 500 bucks , the price ironically came to 420 and some change.
The original poster wants results NOW, not 5 fucking years from now... And if LED was so good now, they wouldn't need another 5 fucking years to make them "better", and regardless..... A 1000w is a 1000w regardless if you're running led or hid..... I'd rather change 1 bulb, than fuck with replacing 300 little 3 watt bulbs anyway.... Now you have a nice day imagining your led system is going to render hids obsolete in 5 years.....
Which you didn't get right in an effort to justify your lame assed opinion of LED and the promotion of it as a viable alternative to PROVEN methods.
I will repeat this again.... I recently purchased an entire 1000w system, ENTiRE... Meaning bulb, digital ballast, and a VERY nice hood for under 500 bucks , the price ironically came to 420 and some change.
The original poster wants results NOW, not 5 fucking years from now... And if LED was so good now, they wouldn't need another 5 fucking years to make them "better", and regardless..... A 1000w is a 1000w regardless if you're running led or hid..... I'd rather change 1 bulb, than fuck with replacing 300 little 3 watt bulbs anyway.... Now you have a nice day imagining your led system is going to render hids obsolete in 5 years.....
BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
Thanks but go hug your mamma cause you're going to need it when you've spent all that money and end up with puny results... will stick with what is PROVEN to work by literally millions of growers for decades.
the original poster had his question answered he took the advice I gave and followed the same path as millions of others..
If the definition of insanity is doing the same failed thing over and over expecting different or better results, then after you get done fucking around with 300+ led lights expecting different or better results, you will be the epitome of that descriptor.
The reason money backs hids...is cause they fucking Work! By the way no one is even talking about INDUCTION except You, and induction is not LED. Lol "clueless", fucking troll...
The Hydrofarm Phantom comes with a 5 year manufacturers warranty. And as always with you fucking LED trolls you always tell only partial of the story....
Like how the warranty of the Area 51 is a LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY. NOT "LIFETIME"..
the original poster had his question answered he took the advice I gave and followed the same path as millions of others..
If the definition of insanity is doing the same failed thing over and over expecting different or better results, then after you get done fucking around with 300+ led lights expecting different or better results, you will be the epitome of that descriptor.
The reason money backs hids...is cause they fucking Work! By the way no one is even talking about INDUCTION except You, and induction is not LED. Lol "clueless", fucking troll...
The Hydrofarm Phantom comes with a 5 year manufacturers warranty. And as always with you fucking LED trolls you always tell only partial of the story....
Like how the warranty of the Area 51 is a LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY. NOT "LIFETIME"..
hyroot
Well-Known Member
I've already had good results. So have a lot of people on this forum I'm not trying to convince you to switch. I'm being realistic. Saying what lights work and match and/ or beat led. I never once said anything negative. You are the troll talkings all that shit. Just anotherbangry ignorant hid fan boy. I talk about induction because I use them and know how good they work and better than any hid.
go ahead continue to be angry at your shitty garden.. That's your own fault.
go ahead continue to be angry at your shitty garden.. That's your own fault.
Once again, educate me and direct me to the thread where led beats or even remotely comes close to hid with identical clones, identical tents, identical veg times, identical training techniques, identical grow medium, and identical number of lights.