LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow- REAMAKE.

polyarcturus · May 23, 2012

pr0fesseur said:
Ok lets do some math shall we? View attachment 1102435 View attachment 1102455 here is two bulbs a common GE gow bulb and EYE hortilux MH bulb. now lets discuss what were looking at. You see the peaks in the 500 range? plants are NOT sensitive to green or yellow light spectrum so thats wasted lumens. Now those peaks are the percentage of light output at that spectrum. based on that analysis a LARGE majority of light is wasted $$$ wasted on unnecessary lumens. now look at the actinic bulbs.View attachment 1102469 View attachment 1102470 View attachment 1102477 View attachment 1102486 Now do we see where im going with this? View attachment 1102504 notice that any light that is output in the 480 to 600nm is pretty much wasted light? nuff said.

pr0fesseur said:
i purchased the following...
UVL Red sun 630nm
UVL 454nm
UVL Super Actinic peaks at 420nm
ATI Pro Color 660nm
KorallenZucht peaks at 630 and 440nm
i got all my bulbs from various aquarium supply stores. These bulbs are designed to supply hardbody and softbody corals with sunlight in the correct spectrum AND penetrate water up to 5' deep...these bulbs have been on the market for longer than any "grow" bulbs and have more worldwide research put into them. if you have any doubts read about PUR and PAR values and how these lights can provide 90-100% of the light plants need..without wasting light on the "yellow" spectrums. corals like plants use sunlight to provide energy, and grow.

pr0fesseur said:
all these bulbs are ho.. vho bulbs are actually LESS efficient and $ for $ not worth it. i shouldent need to post proof but can if need be...VHO bulbs are just overdriven HO bulbs and you can overdrive all these bulbs with an ATI ballast....ask for links if needed.

pr0fesseur said:
I have the same problem with the naked girlfriend not allowing to ton concentrate.. but turn on the all blue bulbs and it does mess with the eyes a bit...its like looking at colors under blacklight to be honest.. im still trying to find more "procolor" bulbs by ati which are the red ones. they discontinued them because people dont like the color but i do cause they are 650-670nm

pr0fesseur said:
You CANNOT use actinics alone and i would not suggest it.. if you actually read all of my posts im using the bulbs to supplement each other. im looking to fulfill the plants spectrum requirements without using wasted lumens.. this is about filling the gap between HID and LED for ROI (return on investment) for the laymen. Bud size is NOT dependent on one factor alone and my methods would NEVER use any one set of bulb type.. This is also a work in progress, you must understand im using bulbs that meet the standards of one type of animal for plants. LED's have proven viability HID's IMHO are great but convert energy to HEAT rather than lumens.. so im trying to get the Most PAR and PUR out of my setup. I must dissagree about more people using grow lights than aquarium lights.. it is only because of the aquarium people that spetralux bulbs even exist.. these companies have been producing aquarium bulbs for over 25 years.. FAR longer than growing with Fluoro have been considered. please only back your opinions with real facts, as i have. Spreading disinformation is worse than lying.. If you only used Actinics you DID NOT supply the plants with the light they require through out their life.. plants need both spectrums of light..both 410-460nm and 600-700nm. your observations are only based on using ONE spectrum of light. please be unbias and state only accurate information.

pr0fesseur said:
Im just trying to help ALL T5 growers out there seeing as no one else seems to want to.

pr0fesseur said:
Sorry to everyone!!! I had some of my belongings removed by the authorities! however remember to have something available to prove your innocence i suggest TRUECRYPT ROFL!! so cops took my laptop and found my tent but nothing was in it THANK GOD! i had killed them due to a Mite issue i was having. Everything is up and running and i am posting new pics today! The shorter plant is sharks breath and the taller plant is Kandy Kush... I bought fem seeds and am testing the strains for my setup as you can see Kandy Kush is my new winner! i also have some fem super lemon haze !! I tested 3 varieties one didnt germ after 2 seeds so its out! debating on making a mother.. BTW Kandy Kush is a great topper and sharks breath... i have a BUNCH of tops as you can see.. If anyone asks whats my yeild ... im really not after a yeild.. sounds crazy im trying to test out topping, LST and grooming.. my last plants as you can see were all LST trained! i use a pinch method and the stems bend on their own.. and every day ill push the branches down gently to promote central growth on all nodes!
View attachment 1611519 View attachment 1611528 View attachment 1611527 View attachment 1611526 View attachment 1611525 View attachment 1611524 View attachment 1611523 View attachment 1611522 View attachment 1611521 View attachment 1611520 View attachment 1611529

pr0fesseur said:
I say toss the daylight bulb completely and buy the fiji purple they are the perfect "blend" color! and a blue plus thats all you need! i use other bulbs to get a more even "MIX"

pr0fesseur said:
Thanks and i apologize ive been having issues with "the authorities!"
everything is back on track and ill have more updates to come!

pr0fesseur said:
View attachment 1611562
My new toy! oh the things you can find on craigs list 150$ NEW!!!

pr0fesseur said:
View attachment 1101487 View attachment 1101488 View attachment 1101489 View attachment 1101490 View attachment 1101491
So when i decided to grow i started with a 400W hps and MH conversion bulb. I put up my tent and it was problem after problem. With the generous help from the people here i decided to throw away my setup and start from scratch. I purchased the Quantum Badboy 8 lamp T5. I started with the standard 6500k bulbs with some success. I wanted to buy an LED light but didnt have the money. So... i was at my buddies house and he has a LARGE aquarium and he showed me his bulbs..it clicked.. corals need light too and his lights produced the EXACT spectrum corals need to live and are capable of penetrating 3'+ of water. well corals and plants are very similar as they use the EXACT same light spectrum. Digging deeper i found bulbs that produce 410-460nm and 620-660 nm light.. That is also Exactly what LEDs put out..now putting one plus one together i decided to do a small test.. i bought 2 2' t5 lights ATI AND UVL Blue plus and Super Actinic. Explosive growth followed. i couldent believe my eyes. I was told on 4 different forums that actinic bulbs DO NOT WORK FOR plants boy were they really wrong!. i ahve since gone 100% T5 with various bulbs producing only yhe light spectrum that plants need. As you can see my plants are doing AMAZING for being grown with Actinic bulbs.2 of my bulbs are missing as they were broken upon arrrival. I will be changing out some of the blue bulbs with the deep red ones i found for flowering..they produce ONLY 630-660nm light. no other spectrum so i get 100% PAR. top that with MH...now i know what your thinking these lights are not bright at all... well its not about lumens.the human eye response isView attachment 1101463photosynthetic is View attachment 1101468, so your eyes do not see ALL the light these bulbs output. hardcore believers will flame me but let the math and the facts be known.HPS BULBS View attachment 1101469 Anyone notice a pattern here???? Lumens are not the ending factor to bud growth or you could not grow with LED. my sample grow i netted 1oz on a plant with only 116w. If your still in disbelief consider this, chect the spectrum charts for your coveted 3000k bulbs and overlay it with your chlorophyll response charts.. youll notice MOST of the light these bulbs prodice is outside the chloraphyll A+B peaks... now place the spectrums of my lights and overlay them...100% match.. seems to me im doing something right?

Wudaheo said:
From looking at that chart.. Instead of paying $20ea for the actinic bulbs which i think are only around 400-600nm wavelength .. wouldn't it be cheaper to get just to get the $7ea full spectrum t5 bulbs since it has the blue & red spectrum that plants mostly need?

9867mike777 said:
Where do you get "Super Actinic" bulbs?

pr0fesseur said:
ever heard of google?

Magnificient said:
A very impressive post. Here's some rep for your thoroughness.

pr0fesseur said:
Thanks Wildcajun They are coming along nicely Ill have updates tomorrow!

pr0fesseur said:
PAR vs PUR measurement of light, efficency
This is a new thread to discuss the differences in terms of growth, asethetics and brands of various bulbs of using PAR and PUR measurements.

Some background is useful as these terms are not as familiar to many hobbyists:

Photosynthetically available radiation (PAR) is defined as the amount of radiant energy available within the approximate spectral range of 350 to 750 nm (Tyler 1966). Instruments commonly used in studies of photosynthesis are PAR meters; that is, they report 400J700 I,h) or total PAR. Photosynthetically usable radiation (PUR) is defined as
the fraction of photosynthetically available radiant
energy of such wavelengths that it can be absorbed by
the algal and plant pigments. Light is selectively absorbed
by most algae in the blue and red regions of the
spectrum, causing the transmitted light to be concentrated
in regions of the spectrum where algal pigment
systems are ineffective at trapping light for photosynthesis
(Sullivan et al. 1984). PUR is necessarily less than
PAR, and PUR will depend on both the pigment complement
of the microalgae and the spectral composition
of the available submersed radiant energy.

It has been suggested that we can calculate PUR through a light calculator and thus have a more precise method of measuring light than PAR. However, I have argued that without knowing the pigment complement of the plants in question, none of which are known............nor have been quantified near as I can tell, maybe I have not searched enough yet, you cannot say much about it. Research also supports this view.

PAR will always be equal to or higher than PUR.
I do not dispute that. PAR meters are also easy to measure with, the methods for measuring specific PUR wavelengths and intensities is not.
Modeling calulators can and do have issues, and need results to verify.

I'm asking and debating whether it can be measured and verified in the aquarium to the same argument made by PUR calculator proponents. There is not enough evidence to say that there is at this point.

You can speculate without support, but you cannot say much else.
What I am asking and looking for is some meat on the bone here, some real support that it makes a difference that aquarists can see, measure, quanatify, heck, anything other than "belief" and yes, I "feel good".

Here's an algal back ground paper that discusses what is involved and the methods to measure PUR in situ, a much higher bar than using a PAR meter. Given that most bulbs used already have a good amount of Red and blue anyway, this starts to get pretty insignificant and difficult to test and support any differences using PUR vs PAR for aquarium plants.

I remain unconvinced.

http://www.new.aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_31/issue_3/0557.pdf

Show me some quantum yeld differences, Relative growth rates differences between PAR and PUR with typical bulbs.

Something.

Are comparison of modesl is detailed here:
http://222.aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_44/issue_7/1599.pdf

While there was a difference between PAR and PUR models in biomass, look at the variation, it's quite a bit. Adding 300 species of plants and that would go even higher. There was good correlation with the PAR model and production, see the last Figure 9, also, look at table 1.

wildcajun said:
View attachment 1633967 View attachment 1633966 View attachment 1633965Damn I have a T5 grow going ,no problems at this time Flowers are getting big,25 days into flower period View attachment 1633964Happy Farming Cajun

pr0fesseur said:
Updates!!! We All Love Updates!
View attachment 1634454 View attachment 1634455 View attachment 1634456 View attachment 1634457
this is the 4th day of 12/12 Yay! these Babies are doing so well!

pr0fesseur said:
Thanks Cajun! nice ladies! during your bloom phase try a few of these
http://www.hellolights.com/24w-procolor-t5hofluorescent-ati.aspx
or
http://www.hellolights.com/24inch-24w-fiji-purple-T5ho-fluorescent.aspx
they will improve (supplement)overall resin and weight production!

wildcajun said:
Girls sure look pretty .

pr0fesseur said:
no not at all.. matter of fact you missing the point! actinic bulbs are ~400nm NOT 400-600nm thats the WHOLE spectrum. by using "full spectrum" bulbs you waste electricity by creating light plants DONT use... so in effect my actinic bulbs are more efficient by creating light in a very narrow spectrum.

dum said:
I am beginning a grow in which I will be using a 65w 420nm (420 for good luck) actinic aquarium light and a 65w 6500k daylight bulb (both made by "current" I believe). I was thinking of adding another small, low watt cfl at around 2700k to fill the spectrum a bit. I like the professor's "full spectrum" idea. If I feel up to it I will start a grow journal. You guys should do a google image search for "light spectrum for plants", very convincing.

topspin said:
I'm down with this thread, I've been using T5 only for a year but just the conventional 6700/3000 switch. Will give these a shot

RobertInAz said:
Nice to have you back, Professeur, and sorry about your mite problem. I'm about to buy some actinics ...you have a brand/supplier you can recommend?
Bob

420n00b said:
Very interesting. Subbed & rep.

bigv1976 said:
Kick ass thread man. I am a T5 grower.

pr0fesseur said:
thanks for the rep im suprised i havent had more views.. im trying to get the best $ for your effort here.. i understand people like the MH and HPS.. but the math just doesent add up for using these bulbs. The heap output and cooling for those bulbs is still greater than min wth the same results.. I just got back from a 2 week trip and my babies were covered in mites...i had no choce but to use "safer spray" wait a day than give my babies a shower...they just started flowering this week...ill post an update shortly.

RobertInAz said:
You know, I just smoked a little bowl and i was thinking about this and I had one of those thoughts that you sometimes get when you're stoned and you figure that later you'll see -- in the clear logic of the unstoned state -- that the thought you had was retarded. But I'm going to put it out here anyway, and hopefully we're all about equally stoned and it won't sound stupid. At any rate, somewhere here in the Forum one of the experts was saying that plants use light spectra in the blue and red zones, and the spectrum that they don't use is the green, hence their green color. They absorb everything except the green, which they reflect, which is why we can see it. (My girlfriend just walked by with no cloths on. She says I shouldn't get stoned today since we have things to do, but I figure that I can do both. She also says I shouldn't get stoned since it makes me forgetful and I lose my focus and train of thought, but that's ridiculous.)
Now, what was I talking about? Oh, yeah,... I was thinking about this: if plants only reflect green, what would happen if you had one of the Professeur's pure blue bulbs, turned all other lights out, and then turned the blue one on. Would you be able to see the plants?
Anyway, with a naked girl in the room I just decided that this idea no longer has any interest for me, but I've pretty much typed the whole thing so I might as well post it.
All the best, Bob

RobertInAz said:
Hey Professeur,
You still here? What are your thoughts re: what Wudaheo said about mixed vs. pure actinic? And about the fact that if these actinic bulbs grow better than regular T5s, they would have been used long before now? Thanx again, Bob

RobertInAz said:
Re: In the end its all about what you use for flowering to get the big buds right??, I was thinking that if the actinic pure blue spectrum bulbs worked for the veg stage, then the Red Sun pure red spectrum bulbs would work for the flowering stage, using the Professeur's same logic.

Lightworker said:
This is gonna be a hot thread indeed!

RobertInAz said:
Thanks again, Wudaheo, for your wise counsel. I'll give them a try and report back.
All the best, Bob

Wudaheo said:
I was using giesemann T5 HO actinics+ during vegg stage before but not for entire stage. If you want to try it out note there are several different types of actinic bulbs. I believe the pure actinic 03 have very low intensity so don't get that. Get the ones that are mixed like actinic+, actinic white, super actinic..etc. But i still think its its waste of money. If actinics were that useful for plants lots of company's would relabel the reef bulbs as plant bulbs right? I'm sure there's a lot more people into growing plants indoors then people with a plant/reef tank. You will do fine with t5ho bulbs like spectralux by sunlight supply.

In the end its all about what you use for flowering to get the big buds right??

RobertInAz said:
Hi Wudaheo,
Thanks for the info. I've been researching the aquarium bulbs that the Professeur mentioned, but there doesn't seem to be many people who have used them, but apparently you have. Why do you say that "your results would be no better than standard bulbs"? Did you grow a crop with them and also a crop with T5 units regular bulbs?
Thanks again, Bob

Wudaheo said:
If you want similar design to the quantum badboys you can get the 6 bulb htg slimstar for $210 w/bulbs shipped but has 1yr warrantly. The sun blaze doesn't have individual reflectors but has 5yr warranty and they really quick on replacements. Not sure about the quantum warranty since they seem like a new company?

RobertInAz said:
Hi Professeur,
I'm thinking of trying your system ... do you have any thoughts on whether or not a couple of 4 tube x 48" Bad Bays are a better deal at $285 than the same thing in a Sun Blaze for $220?
Thanks again, Robert

Wudaheo said:
Keep us updated with the grow. From my experience.. I disagree with using actinic lighting because it cost 3x more for the bulbs and your results would no better then standard bulbs. I used my t5 from my mini reef tank before with actinics/aqua blue+. It did okay but 6500k bulbs did better during veg stage.

btw not all corals are the same. Only some corals benefit from actinic lighting and the corals that do need lighting grow faster under 6000k daylight bulbs but it looks ugly.. So most people use actinic for aesthetic and not their main light source.

victhaog said:
impressive.....this is a new type of grow for me to see.... +rep my friend

RobertInAz said:
I'm way impressed. Are the fixtures and/or bulbs either HO or VHO? And how long have you been using these lights?

ten character rule lol.

LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow- REAMAKE.

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member

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