Looking Into LED - No Clue Where To Start

noxiously

noxiously

Well-Known Member
As the title stated, I've been looking into switching over to LED. Currently I run one 1000w hps, and two 600w hps for flower in a 9ft x 6ft room. Heat was a big issue until I placed a 12,000 btu move n cool in room and exhaust to attic. With having the move n cool, several pumps for hydro, exhaust fan, the lights, etc. electrical usage is a new issue. Amps are under control since I ran several outlets on their own 15 and 20 amp breakers.

I'm looking to cut down on my electricity usage without sacrificing quality and quanity very much, and I've had people telling me that with the new products out it is possible with LED's now. I have read that you should have anywhere from 30-50 watts per sq. ft. I've also been told that I should pay attention to umol and ppf/d more than anything. When looking for LED's sellers advertise lights that are equivalent to (insert random wattage), I'm sure that's not exactly true - it doesn't equate properly does it? I've watched plenty of video's on review's for LED's, but still not quite sure where to look to get close to the lighting I currently have wtihout a huge sacrifice on the end result.

Here is the conclusion for selecting an LED (from the info I've been told and read) - If I want to match wattage per sq. ft, I would look at 4 led lights in the 550 watt range and up, possibly 3 in the 750 watt range. Select something in the 1.8 to 2.5 umol range, higher the better, with an average of 1000 ppfd - how low could I go on average ppfd. If I'm pretty close to the correct number's which brands should I lean towards and which brands should I stay away from?

As far as the spectrum / wavelength chart goes, what would a good one look like?


So to all the LED pro's out there, where should I start, what should I look at, what's the most important category when selecting an LED light?


Just looking to see if I'm heading down the right path before spending the money and not get good enough results. I get that 2200 watts is 2200 watts regardless. Is it even possible to get similar results with less wattage? If not then the only real difference would be in the amps and heat correct?
 
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noxiously

noxiously

Well-Known Member
Hugo Phurst said:
I'm not pro, but anyway....
6x9=54 @ 35w/sq ft that's 1,890w led. Round up to 2k.
Look for something with Samsung chips, LM301h are best I believe, and Meanwell or Inventronics drivers.

Good luck
Click to expand...

With my current HPS lighting, I have a combined 2200 watts, for a total of around 40 watts per sq. ft. Maybe I'm over thinking it and making it more complicated than what it needs to be. Is wattage per sq. ft. more important than umol's and average ppfd? Let's say I go with a light that is rated at 2.8 umols with an average of 800 ppfd at a specific height, but I only get 25 watts per sq. ft.....would that not be adequate enough?

When I say I'm completely ignorant to LED lighting, I'm completely ignorant lol. Other than when it comes to installing fixtures in the house.


Thanks for the info from you and @laddyd
 
Billy the Mountain

Billy the Mountain

Well-Known Member
noxiously said:
With my current HPS lighting, I have a combined 2200 watts, for a total of around 40 watts per sq. ft. Maybe I'm over thinking it and making it more complicated than what it needs to be. Is wattage per sq. ft. more important than umol's and average ppfd? Let's say I go with a light that is rated at 2.8 umols with an average of 800 ppfd at a specific height, but I only get 25 watts per sq. ft.....would that not be adequate enough?

When I say I'm completely ignorant to LED lighting, I'm completely ignorant lol. Other than when it comes to installing fixtures in the house.


Thanks for the info from you and @laddyd
Click to expand...
PPFD matters, not watts. (That's the main reason LEDs preferred, more light output per watt)
 
Billy the Mountain

Billy the Mountain

Well-Known Member
noxiously said:
Oh ok. Would you say an average of 1000 ppfd is ideal? What's the lowest you would go on that as well as umols?
Click to expand...
1000 ppfd is about the max you want to use w/out supplemental CO2
Corners will be lower, so the average will also be lower than 1000 ppfd
Check the Migro site for some ppfd maps and reviews; cocoforcannabis also has some good light info.
 
Hook Daddy

Hook Daddy

Well-Known Member
I think all the above advice is good, one thing I would add is if you’re limited in height consider bar LEDs rather than boards. The light is more spread out and can be closer to the canopy than some good QB lights. If height is not a concern then disregard.
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
The best place to start is setting a budget and then understanding the difference between growing with led and hid. Led gives more light per watt but doesnt add heat on the cannopy like a hid. Environmental control gets much more important as you need to tweak it, both temps and rh, to get the plant to transpire nicely. Basicly it goes from a ceiling of 80F to a floor of 80F when the it comes to temps, at least for high intensity flower. Pead up a bit on VPD and it should set you straight. When you add more intensity its a good idea to up the heat a notch, if the plant is too cold it cant keep up with the light, as its not transpiring enough to keep it going with nutes.

Once you have a budget have a look at either buying from a reputable dealer with good aftersales in your region with independent testing or something cheaper and maybe a bit more disposable. The are several alibaba dealers selling directly in EU/US region, or you can import. Theres also a fair few brands that are china made but sold as national. Hlg, timber or whatever theyre called now(us)/grandmaster leds canada/Growlights australia, Lumatek(euro) are all dependable brands who independent testing a few of them are here on the forum.
Mars, spiderfarmer, Vipar (i think) are also on the forum, solid midrange lights, often with giveaways and coupons. Theyre aftersales: seems like a fair few times things get settled by them being put on blast on the forum but then things getting sorted quickly after that. Make of it what you please. But they have a fair few nice lights for cheerful $. Infact theres a deals thread in the growroom design section, visit for ideas.
Migros testing is also very helpfull, it gives you a good idea of how much ppfd in average on the cannopy per watt which gives you efficiency of the fixture plus its spread.
There is also DIY but thats a whole other bag
 
noxiously

noxiously

Well-Known Member
Billy the Mountain said:
1000 ppfd is about the max you want to use w/out supplemental CO2
Corners will be lower, so the average will also be lower than 1000 ppfd
Check the Migro site for some ppfd maps and reviews; cocoforcannabis also has some good light info.
Click to expand...

I was just on coco for cannabis going through his tests and reviews he's done. To be more accurate with my area, the space is 9 x 6, but the usable area would be more like 7 x 6. Mars Hydro lists their FC-E6500 at 730 watts, with a max coverage of 5 x 5 which is what they say 1000w hps is good for, 2.8 umols, and an average PPFD of 1200umol/m²/s - coco for cannabis says it's max ppfd is 1000 and average is 692. Two of those lights should technically get me close to what I currently have then as far as quanity, but would be more efficient correct?



coreywebster said:
How's this 9x6 layed out with a 1000 and 2x 600 hps?

How much canopy are we talking after work area/walk space ?
Click to expand...
With the system's I have, a flood and drain table, left side of area, one 600 watt hps above that - bat wing reflector, right side has an nft system that covers an area of about 3 ft wide by 6 ft long, with the 1000w and 600w in line, with the exhaust fan connected to both of those and the charcoal filter in between both systems, it's a little over kill and not very efficient but it produces well. It gives me about a 1 1/2 ft in between to walk through. If you was looking down on them they would make a triangle. As far as height goes, the ceiling is probably around 7 ft, which I lose area due to the size of the hps housing. I'm looking to scrap the nft and flood table and run 5 gallon flood and drain pots with the res on the other side of the wall with small holes cut to run the tubing to gain more usable area, and hang two LED's directly in the middle depending on how many I would need, or possible 4, one for each corner having good over lap in the middle.


Edit: Regarding the nft system, I scrog, and usually covers the entire 3 ft x 6 ft area like a carpet.
 
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noxiously

noxiously

Well-Known Member
Rocket Soul said:
The best place to start is setting a budget and then understanding the difference between growing with led and hid. Led gives more light per watt but doesnt add heat on the cannopy like a hid. Environmental control gets much more important as you need to tweak it, both temps and rh, to get the plant to transpire nicely. Basicly it goes from a ceiling of 80F to a floor of 80F when the it comes to temps, at least for high intensity flower. Pead up a bit on VPD and it should set you straight. When you add more intensity its a good idea to up the heat a notch, if the plant is too cold it cant keep up with the light, as its not transpiring enough to keep it going with nutes.

Once you have a budget have a look at either buying from a reputable dealer with good aftersales in your region with independent testing or something cheaper and maybe a bit more disposable. The are several alibaba dealers selling directly in EU/US region, or you can import. Theres also a fair few brands that are china made but sold as national. Hlg, timber or whatever theyre called now(us)/grandmaster leds canada/Growlights australia, Lumatek(euro) are all dependable brands who independent testing a few of them are here on the forum.
Mars, spiderfarmer, Vipar (i think) are also on the forum, solid midrange lights, often with giveaways and coupons. Theyre aftersales: seems like a fair few times things get settled by them being put on blast on the forum but then things getting sorted quickly after that. Make of it what you please. But they have a fair few nice lights for cheerful $. Infact theres a deals thread in the growroom design section, visit for ideas.
Migros testing is also very helpfull, it gives you a good idea of how much ppfd in average on the cannopy per watt which gives you efficiency of the fixture plus its spread.
There is also DIY but thats a whole other bag
Click to expand...

I don't really have a budget, but I do tend to be cheap. If I can justify spending more I will. Starting off, I'm looking to stay under $1000 - needs justified to go that high, but since I'm new to LED I'm probably going to stick around the $600 range. If I can get one LED that produces similar the the 1000w hps or can replace the two hps lights and stay under $600 I'll go that route at first.
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
This may be a good alternative but a little over your budget for a 1k replacement (its a 1k DE replacement)
horticulturelightinggroup.com

Refurbished HLG 750 Diablo

HLG 750R commercial lamps are designed for growers who want to maximize crop yields with a grow light that offers both high intensity and high efficiency. 2000 PPF output with photon efficacy of 2.88 µmol/J
horticulturelightinggroup.com horticulturelightinggroup.com

Why this: HLG have great aftersales and pretty much the best diodes, they cooperate close with samsung. The new Diablo boards (make sure you get the new ones or consider or items) have a nice mix of diodes for their blue spectrum: 2 different photon pumps, 437 and 450nm which seems to work better at activating the flowers two photosystems. Just make sure you have enough height for them, at full power this is going to need about 2 feet. Its probably even a bit more power than you need even.

For your 600w hps: try to replace them with something with a 480w driver.

If you like a bit less watts and yield then go for a 480w light for your 4x4 , and a couple of 320 watts lights for your 600w hps.
 
amneziaHaze

amneziaHaze

Well-Known Member
i would never buy a lamp thats not new. after a few grows they start to get weaker and allsoo they only have 50 000h never know whats been used
 
coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
So going off what you said with regards to canopy.. lighting a 3x6 with a 600 and 1000 seems a bit of a waste.. specifically the 1000w.

If I were going to light up 3x6s I'd be looking at two 350w LEDs .. going on what's necessary to light that area well.

But I'm wondering what weight your pulling as you are on just that 3x6 portion??
 
thisusernameisnottaken

thisusernameisnottaken

Well-Known Member
noxiously said:
As the title stated, I've been looking into switching over to LED. Currently I run one 1000w hps, and two 600w hps for flower in a 9ft x 6ft room. Heat was a big issue until I placed a 12,000 btu move n cool in room and exhaust to attic. With having the move n cool, several pumps for hydro, exhaust fan, the lights, etc. electrical usage is a new issue. Amps are under control since I ran several outlets on their own 15 and 20 amp breakers.

I'm looking to cut down on my electricity usage without sacrificing quality and quanity very much, and I've had people telling me that with the new products out it is possible with LED's now. I have read that you should have anywhere from 30-50 watts per sq. ft. I've also been told that I should pay attention to umol and ppf/d more than anything. When looking for LED's sellers advertise lights that are equivalent to (insert random wattage), I'm sure that's not exactly true - it doesn't equate properly does it? I've watched plenty of video's on review's for LED's, but still not quite sure where to look to get close to the lighting I currently have wtihout a huge sacrifice on the end result.

Here is the conclusion for selecting an LED (from the info I've been told and read) - If I want to match wattage per sq. ft, I would look at 4 led lights in the 550 watt range and up, possibly 3 in the 750 watt range. Select something in the 1.8 to 2.5 umol range, higher the better, with an average of 1000 ppfd - how low could I go on average ppfd. If I'm pretty close to the correct number's which brands should I lean towards and which brands should I stay away from?

As far as the spectrum / wavelength chart goes, what would a good one look like?


So to all the LED pro's out there, where should I start, what should I look at, what's the most important category when selecting an LED light?


Just looking to see if I'm heading down the right path before spending the money and not get good enough results. I get that 2200 watts is 2200 watts regardless. Is it even possible to get similar results with less wattage? If not then the only real difference would be in the amps and heat correct?
Click to expand...
I will tell you this when growing with led, if everything is not dialed in you will be very disappointed coming from hps. In my opinion hps is still the best indoor grow light.
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
thisusernameisnottaken said:
I will tell you this when growing with led, if everything is not dialed in you will be very disappointed coming from hps. In my opinion hps is still the best indoor grow light.
Click to expand...
This is true (hps to led switch) but its equally true if you were to switch from leds to hps (edit) without adapting environment.
HPS is great if you run a vented grow in cold environment with minimal climate control. But if you have any problems with either heat or getting close to your max amps then go for leds.
If you want an all around growlight: CMH.
A bit more efficient than hps (ppf/w) and less infrared; your plants will both transpire well and generally cmh plants are a little more resistant to heat stress than under hps.
 
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ProPheT 216

ProPheT 216

Well-Known Member
amneziaHaze said:
i would never buy a lamp thats not new. after a few grows they start to get weaker and allsoo they only have 50 000h never know whats been used
Click to expand...
I've never had a light fail on me in 20 + years. Never had a bulb blow or led stop working or even seem to loose intensity. Most I can say is back in the HID days sometimes a ballast wouldn't light a bulb and I would have to turn off the ballast and turn it back on again.
 
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