Mad scientist idea

420monster

420monster

Well-Known Member
So the theory I'm bouncing around in my head is for growing in very limited space (height) what if one were to train there plants from right to left and back then back right filling in any void space using the methods of lst and super cropping then fiming the growth basically a screen of green with fewer plants and no need to use female seed you could still keep a even canopy and could even take it one step further say a five gallon pot is 12" or so in height maybe more you could train them half way down the pot before training them to grow horizontal (keeping them from touching the floor) to squeeze a extra 6" I have seen horizontal grow done where plants grow towards a center light and since plants will always grow towards the light in theory this could work to grow two or 3 trees while still maintaining limited space I understand support for the branches and even the pots themselves to prevent them from tipping would have to be involved in order to hold up all that weight but that aside what is everyone else's ideas possible pros or cons of such crazy idea I'm sure topping and super cropping were crazy at first too is it worth a shot on my upcoming grow?

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greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

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420monster said:
So the theory I'm bouncing around in my head is for growing in very limited space (height) what if one were to train there plants from right to left and back then back right filling in any void space using the methods of lst and super cropping then fiming the growth basically a screen of green with fewer plants and no need to use female seed you could still keep a even canopy and could even take it one step further say a five gallon pot is 12" or so in height maybe more you could train them half way down the pot before training them to grow horizontal (keeping them from touching the floor) to squeeze a extra 6" I have seen horizontal grow done where plants grow towards a center light and since plants will always grow towards the light in theory this could work to grow two or 3 trees while still maintaining limited space I understand support for the branches and even the pots themselves to prevent them from tipping would have to be involved in order to hold up all that weight but that aside what is everyone else's ideas possible pros or cons of such crazy idea I'm sure topping and super cropping were crazy at first too is it worth a shot on my upcoming grow?

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very plausible, I knew a hippy guerilla grower that did that to keep his plant shorter than the fence..
he trained it to grow parallel to the ground.
That plant was big as fuck
got lbs and lbs off that thing.
If numbers are an issue, it's a good thing, if not, it's waaaaay to much time veging to be worth it, as it would take probably at least 45 days to train it right..
I personally have grown plants horizontally. It's a bitch, you need to "rotate" them each day to keep the phototropism effect down, but if you rotate each day, the thickness of the cola is insane... like twice as thick.
 
420monster

420monster

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
very plausible, I knew a hippy guerilla grower that did that to keep his plant shorter than the fence..
he trained it to grow parallel to the ground.
That plant was big as fuck
got lbs and lbs off that thing.
If numbers are an issue, it's a good thing, if not, it's waaaaay to much time veging to be worth it, as it would take probably at least 45 days to train it right..
I personally have grown plants horizontally. It's a bitch, you need to "rotate" them each day to keep the phototropism effect down, but if you rotate each day, the thickness of the cola is insane... like twice as thick.
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Well I got a 6x6x5 space and I'm looking to make the most of it I could go as far as 25' in length but the tallest part is 5' the top of my tent looks like this A so anything I can do to maximize potential now that I know it's possible I'll give it a go like any method it's not ideal for everyone but worth a experiment

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greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

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420monster said:
Well I got a 6x6x5 space and I'm looking to make the most of it I could go as far as 25' in length but the tallest part is 5' the top of my tent looks like this A so anything I can do to maximize potential now that I know it's possible I'll give it a go like any method it's not ideal for everyone but worth a experiment

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five feet high is enough, i'd get a nice cree led setup and that way you can use all the height of the room, also controls heat a lil too.
if not you'll probably have to use cfls.
NO room for a hid setup
 
420monster

420monster

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
five feet high is enough, i'd get a nice cree led setup and that way you can use all the height of the room, also controls heat a lil too.
if not you'll probably have to use cfls.
NO room for a hid setup
Click to expand...
And there in lies the problem I have a 600w hps with a cool tube and 430 cfm fan and not anuff room for it so it's more experimental then maximum yield but if I can get both I won't complain

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GroErr

GroErr

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I grow a couple of plants a year outdoor and do something similar to keep them short but still get some decent yield. I use trellises in the pots to guide and help with LST, super-cropping, and FIM.

I use similar methods indoor to keep the height around 36-40" maximum, take it a little more extreme and it should work fine.. The trellises are vertical in the pots, one on each side, when they're shorter and during stretch I weave them through and later tie them if needed to maintain an even height and not go too tall. I don't do it for the ceiling height but I do feel that lights will only penetrate so much (adding tons of light can fix that but then you're paying through the nose, not very efficient). The plants are typically much wider than they are tall doing this.

You can see the trellises I'm referring to and the plant on the left how it was trained to grow wide but keep the height down.
2x10gal-BlueRipper-Day129-1.JPG
 
420monster

420monster

Well-Known Member
GroErr said:
I grow a couple of plants a year outdoor and do something similar to keep them short but still get some decent yield. I use trellises in the pots to guide and help with LST, super-cropping, and FIM.

I use similar methods indoor to keep the height around 36-40" maximum, take it a little more extreme and it should work fine.. The trellises are vertical in the pots, one on each side, when they're shorter and during stretch I weave them through and later tie them if needed to maintain an even height and not go too tall. I don't do it for the ceiling height but I do feel that lights will only penetrate so much (adding tons of light can fix that but then you're paying through the nose, not very efficient). The plants are typically much wider than they are tall doing this.

You can see the trellises I'm referring to and the plant on the left how it was trained to grow wide but keep the height down.
View attachment 3580332
Click to expand...
I see what your saying your doing more of a horizontal Scrog that's basically what I was getting at just at more of a extreme very nice looking plants tho

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GroErr

GroErr

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420monster said:
I see what your saying your doing more of a horizontal Scrog that's basically what I was getting at just at more of a extreme very nice looking plants tho

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Thanks, had to develop something to keep them stealth, been doing it for a couple of years and it works well. A little more extreme and you'll need to keep them lower for that 5ft height but it should work fine. When I pull them out of those, the plants look similar to a plant that's been mainlined.
 
420monster

420monster

Well-Known Member
Your method is almost what I'm talking about the only difference is the space you cover with two plants I'm looking to cover full canopy with 3 for me it's just a experiment but for others it could be anything from strict laws where one plant could turn a misnomer into a felony or medical law limits where they want the most but are limited by amount and do not have the room to grow trees but obviously with more room the potential for a bigger out come

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GroErr

GroErr

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Sounds like you'll have to try a few runs with your plant count and figure out the best config/method as you go. You pretty well have to do that with any new space. Once you've done a few runs you'll be able to tweak and dial it in to maximize your space. Your challenge is that 600 cool tube. If you were starting from scratch the suggestion by @greasemonkeymann of LED's, COBs specifically would be your best bet. They're a heavy initial investment but will pay back over time and allow you to use more of the height, so even faster pay-back. 400w of 3590 COBs would match that 600, you'd be looking at $800 - $900.
 
420monster

420monster

Well-Known Member
I was looking into plasma lighting a few years back but they still haven't come down anuff in price I paid 200 for my hps 2 bulbs cool tube hangers and timer which is why I went with hps

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GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
420monster said:
I was looking into plasma lighting a few years back but they still haven't come down anuff in price I paid 200 for my hps 2 bulbs cool tube hangers and timer which is why I went with hps

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Another option is the Philips Elite Agro CMH, you have a lot of space to dissipate heat, just not overhead. CMH runs much cooler than hps, it yields in the 1 gpw with any decent strain easily. I run their 315w and 210w bulbs, they produce a lot of bud. Here's a camshot of my current run, running 1x 315w and 1x 210w covering 3x6' of bud. You can get a ballast and bulb that'll fit a mogul connector for $200. The heat is between LED's and hps, easy to manage.

Camshot Flower Room Day41 01-07-2016-CMH.jpg
 
420monster

420monster

Well-Known Member
Huh....what exactly is it? Looks like a mh bulb but puts the heat of a cfl? Do the buds still get dense like hps or fluffy like cfl? Are two 315's compare able to 600w hps? Those buds look good tho


Edit: wait it's just a 315 mh? Cuz my ballast is dimmable and made to run both hps and mh so I could turn it down to 50% and run 300 of mh but if I'm going to do that why not 300 hps?
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Indagrow

Indagrow

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I've done very similar.. If you can get in to trim the lowers it's no issue. I kinda went over the top and it got mighty tight in there.. Air circulation was a huge issue when the buds fattened up I was freaking out about mold.. Some well placed desk fans solved my problem. Best of luck, keep us posted
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
420monster said:
Huh....what exactly is it? Looks like a mh bulb but puts the heat of a cfl? Do the buds still get dense like hps or fluffy like cfl? Are two 315's compare able to 600w hps? Those buds look good tho


Edit: wait it's just a 315 mh? Cuz my ballast is dimmable and made to run both hps and mh so I could turn it down to 50% and run 300 of mh but if I'm going to do that why not 300 hps?
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Those Elite Agro 315's need a specific type of ballast to fire and get the efficiency out of them, can't use what you have. Well worth an upgrade though, they're the equivalent of about 400-450w hps dialed in, 2 of them would produce a lot more than a single 600 hps, closer to an equivalent of 900w in the right config. They penetrate really well, some strains like my blue dream are bud all the way down, no popcorn and solid. Bulbs are also rated for 20,000 hrs. so less changes. I've been running the bulb over that 3x4 for 1 1/2 years.
 
C

Connoisseurus Rex

Well-Known Member
I'd like to see somebody trusted run a side by side comparison on here. I've seen them on YouTube but who in the hell knows if they're bullshitting.

I have no doubt they work well, I just want to see how well in comparison.
 
420monster

420monster

Well-Known Member
I just can find anything but bulbs and those bulbs are 843w and 240v ether way still want to do the cannabis vine just because i search and search and found one guy that said something very close but never documented it and he was from RIU never found anything anywhere else

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