Making LABS. Is 2 weeks too long to ferment rice water?

windycheese

windycheese

Active Member
So I'm trying my hand at making LABS and I started fermenting rice water about 2 weeks ago (maybe slightly longer than that). And then some stuff came up that made me forget about it until now. Now 4 days in, it had developed this loud sour funk to it that reeked up the house so I capped it up. I just opened the jar and it smells ABSOLUTELY PUTRID. Think portapotty rancid. Actually smells almost indistinguishable from Micro Life Photosynthesis Plus (which I use and it's highly likely some of those bacteria have been floating around in the air and colonized the rice water), but much much MUCH LOUDER. So considering this and that the jar had been sealed up for about 2 weeks, would it be safe to use the serum in this jar to continue with the second part of the recipe and add it to milk to make the LABS extract? Or have I waited too long and potentially allowed harmful bacteria to develop?
 

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Kayaganja

Kayaganja

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I would use it , cause they always say it also depends on where you are and temperature matters too when making it or the LAB it self give it a go , use 200ml am make 2lts
 
windycheese

windycheese

Active Member
Kayaganja said:
I would use it , cause they always say it also depends on where you are and temperature matters too when making it or the LAB it self give it a go , use 200ml am make 2lts
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Can't say much about the temperature it's been dealing with, been between 65 and 85 F throughout. But I'm gonna give it a shot. 2 quarts of milk have just been innoculated this morning.
 
Kayaganja

Kayaganja

Well-Known Member
windycheese said:
Can't say much about the temperature it's been dealing with, been between 65 and 85 F throughout. But I'm gonna give it a shot. 2 quarts of milk have just been innoculated this morning.
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Just remember to do it right
Mix that single cup of rice wash with 10 parts (cups) milk. Don’t use lactose free milk
 
windycheese

windycheese

Active Member
I may have ended up putting somewhat less than the 200ml, but the milk is good, and it's also UHT so that's the first viable germs to touch it since it was pasteurized. I've made yogurt hundreds of times before and with much less starter than advised so I'll likely be good on this end of the recipe if the rice serum was good too.
 
2cent

2cent

Well-Known Member
windycheese said:
I may have ended up putting somewhat less than the 200ml, but the milk is good, and it's also UHT so that's the first viable germs to touch it since it was pasteurized. I've made yogurt hundreds of times before and with much less starter than advised so I'll likely be good on this end of the recipe if the rice serum was good too.
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It’s better to use raw milk filled with bacteria already the lacto occupy most the space I should see what raw vs hit does to the end product I get less but it’s waaaaay stronger in cultures the plants respond crazy different
 
McShnutz

McShnutz

Well-Known Member
I just made some. I use whole milk. Total of 5 days start to finish.
I've been making LAB for the better part of 10 yrs. What I've noticed is that the warmer the environment the faster things go.
The rice wash should have a sweet/sour fermented smell when it's finished. You can let it go longer, but that sweet smell turns to rancid (like photosynthesis plus).
The best time to use the wash is when it's sweet.
Within 12 hrs after inoculation the milk will turn to a pudding consistency. It will jiggle like jello. Then within 1 or 2 days it turns to a curd at the top.

I ferment my LAB at 93F. I find that putting the rice wash or milk in front of the furnaces heating register in a closed room really helps to heat it up. Like I said, the warmer the better.

I have a feeling you cultured other acid loving bacteria in conjunction with your intended LAB. Most likely purple sulfur bacteria (psb), they smell like putrid rotten eggs, and is the reason that photosynthesis plus smells that way. PSB, is a beneficial microbe and highly sought after in my gardens.

I'd use the smelly rice wash you have and see what comes out of it.
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mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
McShnutz said:
I just made some. I use whole milk. Total of 5 days start to finish.
I've been making LAB for the better part of 10 yrs. What I've noticed is that the warmer the environment the faster things go.
The rice wash should have a sweet/sour fermented smell when it's finished. You can let it go longer, but that sweet smell turns to rancid (like photosynthesis plus).
The best time to use the wash is when it's sweet.
Within 12 hrs after inoculation the milk will turn to a pudding consistency. It will jiggle like jello. Then within 1 or 2 days it turns to a curd at the top.

I ferment my LAB at 93F. I find that putting the rice wash or milk in front of the furnaces heating register in a closed room really helps to heat it up. Like I said, the warmer the better.

I have a feeling you cultured other acid loving bacteria in conjunction with your intended LAB. Most likely purple sulfur bacteria (psb), they smell like putrid rotten eggs, and is the reason that photosynthesis plus smells that way. PSB, is a beneficial microbe and highly sought after in my gardens.

I'd use the smelly rice wash you have and see what comes out of it.
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I've seen that purple bacteria, last summer when i did rice with native local soil in a Tupperware...just to see what my native soil would grow. I had no idea what it was, just that it had a purple hue to it. You say they are the good ones huh? Thnx, i know very little about the micro world.
 
McShnutz

McShnutz

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
I've seen that purple bacteria, last summer when i did rice with native local soil in a Tupperware...just to see what my native soil would grow. I had no idea what it was, just that it had a purple hue to it. You say they are the good ones huh? Thnx, i know very little about the micro world.
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Foliar applying PSB widens the light spectrum plants can use. Consequently it enhances photosynthesis. The use of phototropic bacteria, also another flaculative anerobe just like LAB, in the soil and on tissue have profound effects on plant growth and SAR.
A plant outdoors will have naturally come in contact with PSB as its originally airborne. I don't know how it's retained in regards to the plant tissue, so I've always reapplied it, and in high populations. I can't definitively say less is more, or the other. I just know that in my gardens I take what is in nature and multiply into a concentrated form to use routinely.

The cooked rice method of capturing IMO is a guarantee in my book. I have cultured mycos, Trichoderma, LAB, PSB, and yeast.
I'm currently working on cyanobacteria.
This summer I'll be culturing blue-green algae for the purpose as a biostimulant for the soil and plant.
 
Leeski

Leeski

Well-Known Member
Imo anything past cream coloured rice imo1 has gone to far especially when your getting bright pinks purples risotto rice has given me best imo1 by far risotto rice also makes great labs you can also make labs with oats instead of rice knf rocks ☮
 
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McShnutz

McShnutz

Well-Known Member
Leeski said:
Imo anything past cream coloured rice imo1 has gone to far especially when your getting bright pinks purples risotto rice has given me best imo1 by far risotto rice also makes great labs you can also make labs with oats instead of rice knf rocks ☮
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Black wild rice is usually what I make my wash from, but for gathering IMO I can see where a light colored food source is appropriate.
Why oats? What significant differences are there? I've always used rice.
KNF is pretty awesome! And the results are un disputed. Mother Nature nailed it, I'm just copying her.
 
Leeski

Leeski

Well-Known Member
I can’t remember where I read about using oats was prob either Chris trump or master cho but don’t quote me on that something to do with different Starches & diversity.
I have read so much literature on knf I fried my noggin
 
McShnutz

McShnutz

Well-Known Member
Leeski said:
I can’t remember where I read about using oats was prob either Chris trump or master cho but don’t quote me on that something to do with different Starches & diversity.
I have read so much literature on knf I fried my noggin
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That's what I'm betting is the starch profile.
I brew beer and I will make a milkshake IPA twice a year. Rolled oats is par of thebgrain bill, but in a separate kettle. After I sparge (rinse) the oats, the resulting liquid is very thick. Similar to a milkshake in viscosity.
No other grain I've played with has ever produced starch like oats.

You got my gears turning. I'll try a batch of LAB using oats. Any preferences regarding the style? Rolled, steel cut, ect..
 
Leeski

Leeski

Well-Known Member
I just went with organic porridge type oats after the wash, it behaves exactly the same as a rice wash, same time frame to get the sweet smell approx 3days.
I have also made it with crushed malted barley this is why I love knf so much, it literally has endless options….
My wife goes crazy at me. I was making some wcap & fpj and our kitchen looked like a scene outa braking bad :lol:
 
McShnutz

McShnutz

Well-Known Member
I hear ya, my wife made me move my propane brew table out to the garage. But to be fair I was taking up about half of the basement.

Malted grain huh? Interesting..... sugar would generate a high yeast population once exposed to oxygen either soil, leaf or AACT. Plus the bacteria would still have plenty of starches to develop quickly, similar to yeast.
pH is ideal for both, and both being flaculative.
I like the sound of the malted over the oats.

How about using is EM/LAB serum to inoculate fresh aloe? Maybe skip the 6lbs of sugar and place fine mesh and weight it down to keep all material submerged.
 
Leeski

Leeski

Well-Known Member
Sounds feasible would highly recommend making aloe fpj incredible stuff !

malted barley plays massive part in my indoor and outdoor garden.
I use to make barley sst don’t bother any more just buy 25kg sack for very little money and an electric spice grinder crushed,whole or flour all win win !
 
2cent

2cent

Well-Known Member
McShnutz said:
I just made some. I use whole milk. Total of 5 days start to finish.
I've been making LAB for the better part of 10 yrs. What I've noticed is that the warmer the environment the faster things go.
The rice wash should have a sweet/sour fermented smell when it's finished. You can let it go longer, but that sweet smell turns to rancid (like photosynthesis plus).
The best time to use the wash is when it's sweet.
Within 12 hrs after inoculation the milk will turn to a pudding consistency. It will jiggle like jello. Then within 1 or 2 days it turns to a curd at the top.

I ferment my LAB at 93F. I find that putting the rice wash or milk in front of the furnaces heating register in a closed room really helps to heat it up. Like I said, the warmer the better.

I have a feeling you cultured other acid loving bacteria in conjunction with your intended LAB. Most likely purple sulfur bacteria (psb), they smell like putrid rotten eggs, and is the reason that photosynthesis plus smells that way. PSB, is a beneficial microbe and highly sought after in my gardens.

I'd use the smelly rice wash you have and see what comes out of it.
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How day know ya brew the right ones when I say see what comes out how day know if I got like said psb

mine comes out oudorless I know it works from results and the fact I spray the chicken coop every month I could shove there bedding up ya nose and it won’t smell and I have fifteen chickens lol believe me change them they smell in days spray em and it’s gone for months unless I do full change
My pal used it on puppy piss training and it eliminated the smell from a rug so rancid he was binning lol works wonders on plants and compost
 
McShnutz

McShnutz

Well-Known Member
2cent said:
How day know ya brew the right ones when I say see what comes out how day know if I got like said psb
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If you successfully produce a curd mat at the top of your fermentation vessel, your serum culture was successful. No doubt high in LAB, but that doesn't mean that other EM (efficient microbes) aren't present in crystalist. That's what bacteria does when it goes dormant, until conditions are favorable. You may not have high populations like in a commercially manufactured PSB product, but there's still there.

2cent said:
mine comes out oudorless I know it works from results and the fact I spray the chicken coop every month I could shove there bedding up ya nose and it won’t smell and I have fifteen chickens lol believe me change them they smell in days spray em and it’s gone for months unless I do full change
My pal used it on puppy piss training and it eliminated the smell from a rug so rancid he was binning lol works wonders on plants and compost
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Odorless I don't know, mine always has a fermented sweet/sour odor. It's not offensive by any means, but you can tell it's got a tang to it.

As far as eliminating odors, yes it's very effective but only once it has dried. I use it all around the house, even run it down the sink and toilet.

LAB is a biostimulant for soil born aerobes. A compost pile is ideal. I like to make bokashi compost first, then add that to my composters. Sort of like pre chewing. I feel like I have a much higher nutrient value in my end product.
But no matter how you choose to use it, one thing has always been fact, its better with it than without.
 
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