Most efficient ebb and flow medium

Hello everyone. I am looking for the best ebb and flow medium for a sog grow. The grow would be a perpetual sog with 6" square pots so they must be able to move from tray to tray.

So basically there are a few different factors that I think are important for the best grow medium.

1) Effectiveness- The yield is comparable or better than other mediums
2) Ease of use- Needs to be easy to use. This is why I ruled out hydroton. I have read that it is a huge pain to clean it out every time to re-use it. I would rather just re-buy it every time.
3) Price- It must be pretty cheap to buy, since it has to be re-bought every time.

So the main medium hydroton is out because it would be too expensive to buy every time.

The next contender is coco. From what I understand, they would need a liner for the pot. Has anyone ever seen 6" square liners? I have only seen round ones. A 6" liner is about $1. I am not sure how to calculate the cost of filling a pot with coco as it is sold by weight, not by volume.

The only other idea I had was the 6" rockwool grow cubes. I have seen these for $4.
I have seen Al B Fuct uses loose rockwool and has the same perpetual grow setup.

So what are your ideas? Has anybody used the coco or rockwool mediums as I have described?

I would greatly appreciate any ideas that anyone has or any experiences that anyone has had with any mediums.

Thanks in advance!

Go to Lowes, Home Depot, or Menards and buy some River Rock. Cheap, effective, super easy to reuse, doesn't raise ph.

Rockwool is good, but will cost you plenty. Can also raise PH is not properly soaked.

Coco is great for using along with beneficials, but I would use the chunky stuff. I wouldn't try using the thin stuff. Just a messy setup.

River rock is 3 dollars a bag, can be reused, and work excellent.

It's all I've used. I only top off the pots to block light with hydroton because it's light. I never let it touch my nutrient solution.

Check my sig for some river rock Ebb and Flow grows. I think You'll like the results.



Peace.
Tav

Growstones are easier to clean than hydroton and cost about the same. They hold air better too.

If you're talk'in 0 to 10 days veg then 4" rockwool blocks work great. The roots wont over run the cubes with a short veg.

samsonite17 said:

Hello everyone. I am looking for the best ebb and flow medium for a sog grow. The grow would be a perpetual sog with 6" square pots so they must be able to move from tray to tray.

So basically there are a few different factors that I think are important for the best grow medium.

1) Effectiveness- The yield is comparable or better than other mediums
2) Ease of use- Needs to be easy to use. This is why I ruled out hydroton. I have read that it is a huge pain to clean it out every time to re-use it. I would rather just re-buy it every time.
3) Price- It must be pretty cheap to buy, since it has to be re-bought every time.

So the main medium hydroton is out because it would be too expensive to buy every time.

The next contender is coco. From what I understand, they would need a liner for the pot. Has anyone ever seen 6" square liners? I have only seen round ones. A 6" liner is about $1. I am not sure how to calculate the cost of filling a pot with coco as it is sold by weight, not by volume.

The only other idea I had was the 6" rockwool grow cubes. I have seen these for $4.
I have seen Al B Fuct uses loose rockwool and has the same perpetual grow setup.

So what are your ideas? Has anybody used the coco or rockwool mediums as I have described?

I would greatly appreciate any ideas that anyone has or any experiences that anyone has had with any mediums.

Thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

If your ruling out hydroton for your medium cuz 'its hard to clean' then i feel bad for you. All you gotta do is rinse it, takes a little time and muscle but not as much lazy ass flatlanders say. Hydroton or sunleaves rocks are the best for perpetual and maybe period. But they are dependent mediums meaning the ph will fluctuate more constantly than an independent medium such as a soiless mix, but SMs are very dirty and may clog your system. Rockwool is shit, ph rises constantly from its binding agent and you will only be able to flood twice or so a day cuz its water holding capability. Remember mj loves rapid wet dry cycles, not water logged medium. With hydroton you can flood it up to 12 times a day giving the roots air and and water. Cocos alright but have lots of calmag cuz it absorbs cal. If you want the most consistant and durable medium with least problems use hydroton or even gravel, and check ph daily. When i hear people complain about washing their rocks i pitty their work
Ethic and wonder it must be a big deal for them to tAke the trash out or do the dishes. Id recommend sunleaves rocks its actually easier to reuse than hydroton despite its crevices and pourus texture.

Thanks for the opinions everyone.

So for anyone who has used hydroton, how long do you think it would take to clean 16 6" pots?

Veg time would be about two weeks not counting the veg period that it goes through after switching to 12/12. The 4" rockwool cubes are only about a dollar. Anyone have any good experience with those?

What about using a 4" rockwool cube put into the 6" pot surrounded by hydroton or coco? Has anyone tried a combination like this?

Thanks for the help everyone!

Well I use hydroton, and the grow stones from 2 different manufacturers as I've been running perpetual for over 3 years now. Washing pots and rinsing medium is not fun, and it takes some time, but isn't the final product well worth it. If your gonna run a 16 plant system you will have enough work into it just suck it up and do it right. I have been running between 20-40 plants at different periods over the last few years and that still isn't really alot for this type of setup. Washing 16 pots will prolly take you about 45-60 minutes every 8-9 weeks big deal. Maybe twice as long for the stones in the same time period. My stones are all mixed up in a big tote, and I basically flood and drain that tote multiple times to rinse them. I would love to build a little shaker rig some day to take all the work out of it, but that is a long ways down the road and low on my list of priorities. I just did this whole process the other night and it took a few hours(had 25 6" pots), but its done now for another 8 weeks. I would say I usually recover about 85-90% of the stones each run so I only buy a new bag like once a year or so and just add it to the mix.

As far as rock wool goes I've tried using it for clones, and that turned me off to it completely. It seems like rockwool may be better suited for drip systems and drain to waste systems. I had no desire to deal with the PH issues and over saturation that was easy with rock wool in my flood table. Al B Fuct is a great grower and does a fantastic job with the chunked rock wool, many other growers use rockwool with fantastic success so don't take me wrong its got to be a great medium. I just didn't think it was for me, I like peat pellets, or rapid rooters to start clones, and I love the rocks in my trays. I also don't like the idea of having to constantly buy new medium each round. I am toying with some different pots, I'm trying a few plants in smart pots to see how that goes, I like the idea of the root pruning effect.

Thanks for the reply Thundercat. The setup would harvest 16 plants every two weeks, not once every eight weeks. So it would take about 3 hours to clean after every harvest?

Is hydroton considered a more forgiving medium than rockwool or coco. This would also be an important fact to consider.

They all have advantages and draw backs. Some you can water much more frequently which increases the water to air ratio of the roots and helps growth, some buffer nutrients better which can aid in uptake. Like I said in my last post I think I like the various rocks I've tried more then the hydroton.

You might be a faster cleaner then me but I would figure 2-3 hours per harvest just in cleaning that stuff, prolly another hour or 2 cleaning other things, gotta keep your room up.

If your running that many plants do a side by side, run 8 in growstones, and 8 in chunky rockwool. You'll have to do it in 2 trays because the flood times will be very different on them but its worth a try to really see the difference. I've been thinking about getting a bag of chunky perlite to try out. The Hempy guys love the all perlite growing, and it fits the bill of what I'm looking for in a medium with regards to getting alot of air to the roots.

Rockwool will hold more water for longer periods of time if there is ever a pump failure.

Right now I'm running both large peralight "started in 1 1/2 rockwool cubes", and rockwool flock. All on the same 4X4 table right now. I'm about to start the second week of flowering. I flood twice a day. About half hour after lights come on and about a half an hour before they go off. To be honest with you the plants in rockwool are doing better then the ones in peralight. But I am liking the river rock stone idea. Probably try that in a few weeks.

Thanks for starting this thread.

Ever seen a sloush box that goldminers use? Its perdect for cleaning aggregate. 16 6" pots will need around3-4 bags but you want the whole table filled or the
Roots will grow into air and get pruned. Takes just over 7 50L bags to fill a 4x8

I've wanted to build a little sloush box I figured something like that would be great. Once I have my own house and a more permanent room I very well may build one. Or a simple spinning trommel setup.

Cleaning hydroton is easy. If I only had to clean hydroton for 16 6" pots I would be giddy, jumping for joy. I can probably clean AND disinfect enough for 16 of them in about 2 hours. If it's just cleaning and not disinfecting them I can do enough for 16 6" pots in about an hour. How is this a lot of work? Try cleaning enough hydroton for 50 6" pots every 35 days.

Cleaning... for small batches you can use 2 - 5 gallon buckets with a lid. Drill many many small holes in the lid. For larger batches you can use a brewers bucket style system. The ones with the spigot on the bottom. You can make really big ones out of trash cans. You make a table or false bottom our of mesh or perf plate or expanded alu, whatever. The point is to make a mesh bottom a few inches above the bottom of the bucket, with the spigot as low as it can be mounted on the bucket. So the crap can go through but the ton wont. Put the ton in, fill with water, stir, drain.

It's hard to beat hydroton for ebb and flow.

I agree its not hard work, more of a tedious thing for me I think.

What process do you use Mithrandir?

I use 2 5 gallon buckets. Fill them about 2/3s of the way with ton, then fill with hot water and let soak for 15 - 30 mins. This dissolves and loosens any salts hanging out in the hydroton. I will stir or agitate once or twice if I remember, but I always stir or agitate before I pour out the water. To pour out the water I have a lid that has a bunch of holes drilled into it. Put the lid on, turn it over slowly and let the water and crap drain away. I will do this 2, maybe 3 times depending on how dirty it is. I do two buckets at once. One buckets worth fills about 5 - 7 six inch pots to the top.

If they are really dirty and I have to disinfect I add a capfull or two of bleach to the bucket and let soak for 15 mins. After then it's rinse rinse rinse until you don't smell any more bleach. Usually 3 - 4 rinses.

Here's the trick though... 1) I use clean nutes. No organic shit teas, nothing that causes gunk to build up in my rez. So there's not much to clean to begin with. 2) I wait 1 - 2 days after I harvest to shake the hydroton out of the root ball. This seems to be the best time and lets the ton fall out but keeps the roots intact. If you wait too long the roots will break and you'll have to rinse them out.

I find that having a system and sticking to it makes it much easier to clean the hydroton. Set aside 5 hours on a weekend and you can clean a ton of 'ton!

Takes me about three houra to
Do a 4x8 worth, 7+ bags. Also if you take a big mesh pot ( i used the wifes kitchen strainer) fill it with rocks and submerge in water to the top, shake vigorously while submerged and most of everything is out loose. Rinse for a few and its super clean. Kinda same technique that a washer uses

Hydroton is the way to go imo. If you are serious about sog an old washing machine works great to clean the rock. Remove the lid and disable the safety switch. Run first cycle w/bleach one or two more cycles w/tapwater to rinse thoroughly and remove any roots. Rinse it with a hose as it spins. Works great imo. You can do bout half a bag at a time maybe a lil more.

As far as cleaning pots goes if you can find one of these used you are set. New ones are a bit pricey.

Is that the type of scubber they use in bars? Not a bad idea, I tried my dishwasher once for my pots, but that was a fail, it didn't even touch the salt buildup.

Thanks for the info everyone!

I think hydroton looks like the winner!

If you have build up on your pots and hydroton then something is amiss in your system. The only time I get salt build up is if I am running really really strong nutes. I had calcium build up after I moved to a new place with much more calcium in the water but switching to the GH hardwater micro formula took care of that. Here's the thing, if it's nute salts then hot water will dissolve it. If hot water and scrubbing doesn't take it off it's probably calcium deposits. At the end of a run the only thing on my pots is some red dust build up from the hydroton.