Need Help Please...Phosphorus deficiency, Manganese deficiency, Sulphur???

Hey everyone, I am a newbee and I am growing a bagseed. In the last 2 days I noticed a lot of my tips curling up and getting dark, almost looking like Scorpion Tails. I did some online research and reading and what I think the problem is that my plant is Phosphorus deficiency, Manganese deficiency, Sulphur or I am completely way off. If anyone has encountered this problem before can you please give me a remedy for this?

I am currently using Fox Farms Grow Big and my soil is a mix of Super Soil/Perlite. My plant is 40 days old. I have good temps(MIN 71F 40%rH MAX 80F 52%rH) in my grow tent and I am using a 400 watt MH Light and 2 x 14 watt Quad Spectrum LED Lights. I only gave my plant nutes twice, the 1st time was only 50% dosage and the last time was 100% dosage.

I know I am not over doing with nutes but maybe i am not giving them enough?
Do i need to get a supplement nutrient for the plant?
What can or should I do?
I just watered my plant last night and I used water, no nutes.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, this is my 1st grow and its the first plant I ever planted in my whole life and I dont want to lose this plant, i love it!!!! Even though its a bagseed, i grew to love this plant....Its amazing what growing marijuana does to people..... Thanks for taking time out to read this post. Peace!!!!

According to the Fox Farm feeding schedule ( http://foxfarmfertilizer.com/soilfeed.pdf ) if you are still in veg, you should be feeding with Big Bloom as well for complete nutrition. From the looks of it though it seems more like lockout or nute burn, but since you haven't overfed, I'd go with lockout. What kind of water are you using? Have you tested it?

Oh no! I don't know enough to know what the problem is, but you sound so sad about that plant. I am sure you will fix the problem though, just remember what I have learned so far---"when in doubt, try a flush first...". It is just good to ---"hear"--(read)?--Which one is it? I don't know!!! Anyway I am off on a ramble, let me bring it back around and say that I feel your pain and angst through your words and wanted to reach out and cybernetically let you know that it will all be ok and it is a weed therefore pretty resilient--one L or 2? I don't feel like looking it up---aww now I'll have to...anyway there I go again...I am sure you will fix the problem and it will turn out great. I had one that was sick and I worked and worked to fix it, and then it was male....so may you have good luck on this adventure.

I use distilled water that is at 6.5 to 7.0 pH. I also have it sitting in a bucket 2 days before watering with a air stone in it. Sparka thanks for the Fox Farm Feeding Schedule!!!! Wouldnt those deficiency I listed make it lockout??? Also what is a lockout, is it when nutes get blocked off?

Thanks missnu, I actually got a kick of your reply and it did make me laugh cause yes I am really bummed out right now...Thanks!!! Also who cares about spelling we are stoners we are allowed to spell inkorrektly...

bekindbud said:

I use distilled water that is at 6.5 to 7.0 pH. I also have it sitting in a bucket 2 days before watering with a air stone in it. Sparka thanks for the Fox Farm Feeding Schedule!!!! Wouldnt those deficiency I listed make it lockout??? Also what is a lockout, is it when nutes get blocked off?

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Lockout is when your plants can take in nutrients due to your ph being outta whack. Pour some 7.0 water through your soil and test the runoff.

I check my soil 3 times a week, its averages between 6.5-7.2 pH. I just watered my plant last night with just plain 7.0 water. I think I am going to flush it....Still doing reading and research on flushing....I was wondering if I do flush it, when will i have to give it nutes again?

bekindbud said:

I use distilled water that is at 6.5 to 7.0 pH. I also have it sitting in a bucket 2 days before watering with a air stone in it. Sparka thanks for the Fox Farm Feeding Schedule!!!! Wouldnt those deficiency I listed make it lockout??? Also what is a lockout, is it when nutes get blocked off?

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Hey man - first, don't stress out. The problem is fixable/survivable and you can probably have the plant back on track again in about a week or two if you don't do anything to make it worse.

First you were asking about lock-outs. What happens is, certain elements/microelements will 'lock-out' the absorption of other elements if *their concentration is too high* in ratio between the soil, each other, and the tissues of the plant*. Usually the result of too strong of a nutrient concentration suddenly being added to the soil - but can also occur over time as salts build up in the soil if the nutrient mix being fed isn't in the perfect ratios for what the plant uses.

Counter-intuitively, too strong of a nutrient mix/additive will often result in signs of deficiencies (and it is a deficiency as far as the plant is concerned), even though there is *more* than enough of those elements in the soil than the plant can use. Problems and tissue death begins to occur as the plant tries to make due with what it has previously absorbed and stored in its tissues since it can no longer properly uptake what it wants from the locked-out elements in the soil. Adding even more things to the soil to try and correct the signs of the resulting deficiencies that results from lock-outs will actually make uptake more difficult for the plant and result in worsening signs of a deficiency/complex deficiencies/death.

So the first step to recovery is not too add anything while attempting to remove the excess elements from the soil that may be causing the lock-out(s) - aka 'flushing' with plain pH'ed water. The second step is to get the nutrients in the soil back below the last known safe level of nutrient mix. In your case, you stated you gave the last feeding at 100% strength and had been feeding at 50% strength previously. So start them back at no more than 50% strength assuming that you hadn't been seeing any problems at that percentage. Going down to 25% strength feedings at first would be even safer. I also do not give anything but the basic nutrients (no additives).

Try to minimize any stressors on the plant (like temperature extremes/radiant heat) while watching for results over the next week or two. You'll usually start to notice newer growth coming in with a vengeance in about 7-10 days if the problem was from nutrient burn/lock-out. Older growth won't likely improve in appearance.

Hope that helps understand what is probably going on - keep me updated on how it goes.


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*Improper pH can also result in certain elements/microelements not being absorbed as pointed out. Just saw that you were monitoring pH so I wouldn't think that's the problem.

TaoWolf said:

Hey man - first, don't stress out. The problem is fixable/survivable and you can probably have the plant back on track again in about a week or two if you don't do anything to make it worse.

First you were asking about lock-outs. What happens is, certain elements/microelements will 'lock-out' the absorption of other elements if *their concentration is too high* in ratio between the soil, each other, and the tissues of the plant. Usually the result of too strong of a nutrient concentration suddenly being added to the soil - but can also occur over time as salts build up in the soil if the nutrient mix being fed isn't in the perfect ratios for what the plant uses.

Counter-intuitively, too strong of a nutrient mix/additive will often result in signs of deficiencies (and it is a deficiency as far as the plant is concerned), even though there is *more* than enough of those elements in the soil than the plant can use. Problems and tissue death begins to occur as the plant tries to make due with what it has previously absorbed and stored in its tissues since it can no longer properly uptake what it wants from the locked-out elements in the soil. Adding even more things to the soil to try and correct the signs of the resulting deficiencies that results from lock-outs will actually make uptake more difficult for the plant and result in worsening signs of a deficiency/complex deficiencies/death.

So the first step to recovery is not too add anything while attempting to remove the excess elements from the soil that may be causing the lock-out(s) - aka 'flushing' with plain pH'ed water. The second step it to get the nutrients in the soil back below the last known safe level of nutrient mix. In your case, you stated you gave the last feeding at 100% strength and had been feeding at 50% strength previously. So start them back at no more than 50% strength assuming that you hadn't been seeing any problems at that percentage. Going down to 25% strength feedings at first would be even safer. I also do not give anything but the basic nutrients (no additives).

Try to minimize any stressors on the plant (like temperature extremes/radiant heat) while watching for results over the next week or two. You'll usually start to notice newer growth coming in with a vengeance in about 7-10 days if the problem was from nutrient burn/lock-out. Older growth won't likely improve in appearance.

Hope that helps understand what is probably going on - keep me updated on how it goes.

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Follow this advice or perish!! LOL.

BTW, lockout can also occur from fuckered up PH. The plants can't absorb certain minerals outside a specific range. Taowolf is explaining the interactions between the minerals themselves that makes some unavailable. Flush. Light nutes (I'd say 50% but only cause I have starved plants in the past) and a stable environment. A drop or two of superthrive in your nutes wouldn't be a bad thing either. (Bq and thamine to combat stress).

Oh and wanted to point out that it's not safe to have anything electric (cords, fan) on the floor of the tent. Hang that stuff from the roof supports in the tent or come up with a way to run supports across the back and sides to hang things like fans from.

Probably not the the least ghetto solution, but I zip-tied some extra silicone air lines I had tightly across the back of my tent (from the vertical poles in the corners) to hang my fans to get them off the floor.

lower ph. Lower ph to 5.8 what is your ppm at? I do not think that is heat stress. I think that is a ph problem. Because your ph is so high i think you are locking out other nutrients.

5.8 is a good pH for hydroponics but soil is usually kept closer to neutral @ 6.5 to 7'ish.

I think this is a potassium issue. Could be some phosphate shortage as well, maybe nitrogen toxicity, and potentially heat stress. Usually accompanied by some sort of pH issue.

Hey thanks everyone for the inputs.....I am going to flush my plant tonight with 7.0 pH water, I am going to catch the run off and test that to see WTF..... After I flush my plant, when will I have to add 50% nutes? On the next watering day? Or immediately after the flush is complete? Tao my man I appreciate your help....I am definately cleaning up my tent tomorrow after work, I had a real busy weekend and I didnt have time to clean up my tent but I am going to get a 6" ducting for the top of my fan and have it go to my window....real busy weekend! Tomorrow is my "Tent Maintenance Day" and of course I will be enjoying some Mr. Nice Guy prior to my tent maintenance.....So let me know when i should add the 50% dosage of nuts after I flush tonight at 10:30pm I will try to take pics for updates!!! Thanks RIU NATION!!!!!

Snow crash, the only nutes i gave my plant was fox farm grow big, Sparkabowl posted a fox farm feeding schedule and according to the schedule I should also be giving the plant Bloom too and I wasnt. Do you think because I didnt give it some Bloom is why you are saying potassium issue and some phosphate shortage? I am using the fox farm nutes and this is a bagseed but I am in love with this plant, I just hope the Ganja Godz give me a female...LOL.

Sparakabowl thanks for the link of the Fox Farm Feeding Schedule!!!!

The way the edges are crispy, and the way the yellowing is showing up in the meat of the leaves is why I said potassium. You should do a quick google on it, the pictures are pretty telling.

I think some of the Big Bloom would be a good solution. As I remember it is pretty high on K.

I personally just do one long, good watering until the run-off is coming out relatively clear. Let the soil drain until it's no longer dripping. Then immediately apply a dilute complete nutrient solution (~25% recommended strength) and then let the soil drip-dry and then dry to normal levels. Then I just watch the new growth on the plant while watering as necessary/normally over the next week. Things may not get better or appear any different for a few days while the plant re-balances. But be patient and watch the growth areas. After about a week, new little leaves should start forming, start to fan out, and then assume that healthy-looking relatively flat and straight shape without any major twisting, clawing, or discoloration. Again though, it can take a week or two (which will seem like an eternity) for the plant to really start to kick back into fast growing speed and start pumping out new leaves. So if you do decide to feed it again if things get into week 2 of recovery, err on the side of a low amount as opposed to a full amount.

Enjoy that Mr. Nice Guy (is it purple by the way?) - would you believe I haven't smoked or consumed any cannabis product in two months now while looking for a job? The only hobby I enjoy more than growing is smoking something I've grown while growing. But at least I have growing in the meantime right? I just get jealous when I hear other people talk about smoking up and working on their grows... lol

Flushing complete!!!!

Run off tested from 7.2 to 6.8 my final reading. My pH is just fine for soil.

The pics are before flush then after flush also is the beginning run-off pH testing during my Flush. I also finished off my flush with a 25% nute dosage. Now its time to kick back with a hopefully clean slate of soil and hoping for new growth and pray its a female. LOL!!!

Tao +++REP for you!!!! Give TAO +++REPs PLZ!!!! You really know how to break it down bro, THANKS!!!!

Thanks to all who has replied to my thread, much love. I will keep this thread going to show where my plant goes from here....

Last but not least is a pic of "My Breath of Fresh Air"...My little baby!!!! Good nite all, I am tired!!!

Quick look at my plant half way through the day of light...I guess my plant doesnt look that bad, I mean from how it looked last night after I flushed the soil. I am hoping to see maybe a difference in it by this up coming weekend. Check out my little one in the back, today it is 14 days old from germination. Thats a good sign so far!!! Im out, gotta watch my Giants tonight.....damn they are already losing....nothing that Mr. Nice Guy cant fix...lol Peace.

I was thinking about cloning this plant, is it ok or safe to do right after a flush? Not sure if that would be too much stress on the plant? Also I noticed that my soil is looking like its getting really compacted, is that normal after a flush? Any help or advice.... Thanks