New at this venting question

R

rollyouron

Well-Known Member
This is my very first post , and I've got plenty of questions. I try not to ask questions that can easily be found with a quick search. I wanting to build a cabinet 32 inch wide x 72 tall x 24 deep. If it works well I will build another the same size for flowering. The reason for this is I'm wanting go a little more stealth. I have children and friends that I don't ever let walk out to my shop now, and I wanting that to change.
Now I'm using 2 cfl 400 watt rated over 3 plants something like 5000k for veg and 2700k for flowering. So right now I don't think I would have any heat issues with cfl, but I'm thinking of switching to mh or hps light I'm not sure, but I want to keep this option open.
My question is venting. I'm not sure what to buy. I was looking at a 6inch inline fan, if I used it I would mount it in top of cabinet and cut a 6 inch hole in bottom of cabinet and just let fan suck air through bottom and vent out through wall. Would that work?
I need a supply list for everything I might need to do the venting. Also should I put a carbon filter? If I do please include it and everything I might to connect to the system you are going to recommend. It will be venting outside, and the nearest house is 500 yards away. I hate to bother you with this, but I've read so much the last month I'm having brain fry issues. I need a little advice. Thanks very much in advance.
 
ASMALLVOICE

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
Hiya M8,

That is alot of fan for that space, you should be able to get by with a 4" fan and 2-3 4" holes along the bottom for a "passive" intake. As far as a carbon filter, I would always lean to yes, as I see your neighbors are a great distance away, but there could be times when you have company or a service technician, mailman that will be closer than that, so always err to the side of caution and you wont have any surprises down the road.

Hope this helps and welcome to the game.

Peace

Asmallvoice
 
Moon Goblin

Moon Goblin

Active Member
ASMALLVOICE said:
Hiya M8,

That is alot of fan for that space, you should be able to get by with a 4" fan and 2-3 4" holes along the bottom for a "passive" intake. As far as a carbon filter, I would always lean to yes, as I see your neighbors are a great distance away, but there could be times when you have company or a service technician, mailman that will be closer than that, so always err to the side of caution and you wont have any surprises down the road.

Hope this helps and welcome to the game.

Peace

Asmallvoice
Click to expand...
It seems like you have somewhat of an understanding about what to recommend here, but what needs to be considered is noise, including structural reverberation, from the fan- and if you plan on running an air cooled hood, or not ( I know u have bare CFL's now). If you don't run an air cooled hood, i would recommend getting the 6" fan with around 400 cfm- it's better to have more than too little- plus, you can always get an inexpensive fan speed controller to lessen the amount of exhaust. your idea of having the intake at the bottom of the structure is good- air flow is important. As far as a carbon filter- I think it would be a good idea for smell and stealth.
An after thought is to filter the intake of your box. Maybe an ac filter will do the trick
 
ASMALLVOICE

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
Moon Goblin said:
It seems like you have somewhat of an understanding about what to recommend here, but what needs to be considered is noise, including structural reverberation, from the fan- and if you plan on running an air cooled hood, or not ( I know u have bare CFL's now). If you don't run an air cooled hood, i would recommend getting the 6" fan with around 400 cfm- it's better to have more than too little- plus, you can always get an inexpensive fan speed controller to lessen the amount of exhaust. your idea of having the intake at the bottom of the structure is good- air flow is important. As far as a carbon filter- I think it would be a good idea for smell and stealth.
An after thought is to filter the intake of your box. Maybe an ac filter will do the trick
Click to expand...
I have a complete understanding of ventilation as I am an environmental control technician that deals with every type of hvac system that is produced along with state of the art automation systems. The area of the cabinet he is proposing is a bit small for 400cfm and the amount of passive intakes required would overkill all the way around, not to mention the amount of negative pressure that would build if it is not setup correctly, he would throw his back out trying to open the door...lol

I have 2 seperate cabinets that are almost as big as his will be and I get by with only 120cfm of air movement from 3" 120v fans and I keep perfect temps on both cabinets. My flower room is 4'x4'x7' and 2 4" fans ( 2 seperate stages of cooling) connected to my automation system keeps the area perfect. I also use 2 4" fans, one pushes and one pulls for my 600watt cool tube and it works perfectly with about 6 feet of ducting total.. Temps are 78 on and 65 off. Go with the smallest fan you can get away with and the noise and vibration will be even less of a factor to deal with, not to mention a bit cheaper to buy and operate. you can stand outside the room and barely hear the air being pulled into the intake duct. stealth and efficiency. I have a 4" fan setup with a 14" carbon filter from blackhill filters and smell is never an issue as of yet anyway, about 2 weeks into flowering.

There are many ways this can be done without the screaming noise of a 6" fan on a small cabinet. My friend let me borrow one for a while and the noise made it unbearable, that is why I went with much smaller fans.

Peace

Asmallvoice
 
TechnoMage

TechnoMage

Well-Known Member
Biggest fan you can get, put a speed dial on it and dial it down. A 6" at 50% speed is going to be quieter than a 4" at full speed. Best way to cool a HPS cab it to have the bulb in air cool-ed hood.

If you're venting to outside would be carbon filter in the cab, to light, to fan, to outside. Or you could go filter, fan, light to outside. If you hood isn't air-tight however you can have some odor. Other option would be a Ozone generator at the exhaust end.
 
ASMALLVOICE

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
TechnoMage said:
Biggest fan you can get, put a speed dial on it and dial it down. A 6" at 50% speed is going to be quieter than a 4" at full speed. Best way to cool a HPS cab it to have the bulb in air cool-ed hood.

If you're venting to outside would be carbon filter in the cab, to light, to fan, to outside. Or you could go filter, fan, light to outside. If you hood isn't air-tight however you can have some odor. Other option would be a Ozone generator at the exhaust end.
Click to expand...
Agreed if they are vortex style fans. I use regular cabinet fans (orion) and they are as quiet as can be had for the 200 and under cfm range, and you can get at least 5 of them for the cost of 1 6" vortex fan. Much more quiet than a vortex fan even at 30% speed. not to mention, speed controllers are nice, but they do shorten the lifespan of all but the best built fans, and they are another component that can fail.

Peace

Asmallvoice
 
TechnoMage

TechnoMage

Well-Known Member
ASMALLVOICE said:
Agreed if they are vortex style fans. I use regular cabinet fans (orion) and they are as quiet as can be had for the 200 and under cfm range, and you can get at least 5 of them for the cost of 1 6" vortex fan. Much more quiet than a vortex fan even at 30% speed. not to mention, speed controllers are nice, but they do shorten the lifespan of all but the best built fans, and they are another component that can fail.

Peace

Asmallvoice
Click to expand...
I use Axial fans for places where they aren't under load like my mother and vegging cabinet but in my flower cabinet where I use a filter, I consider a centrifugal fan a must.
 
ASMALLVOICE

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
TechnoMage said:
I use Axial fans for places where they aren't under load like my mother and vegging cabinet but in my flower cabinet where I use a filter, I consider a centrifugal fan a must.
Click to expand...
Agreed , an axial fan cannot develop the suction needed to pull through a carbon filter. I have a 4" vortex on a 14" carbon filter for scrubbing a 4x4x7 area.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice
 
R

rollyouron

Well-Known Member
Thanks gentlemen for your replies. I'm coming to the conclusion that during flowering if I want to use a scrubber I'm going to have to go with an inline fan?
 
SpectatorFernFirm

SpectatorFernFirm

Active Member
ASMALLVOICE said:
I have a complete understanding of ventilation as I am an environmental control technician that deals with every type of hvac system that is produced along with state of the art automation systems. The area of the cabinet he is proposing is a bit small for 400cfm and the amount of passive intakes required would overkill all the way around, not to mention the amount of negative pressure that would build if it is not setup correctly, he would throw his back out trying to open the door...lol

I have 2 seperate cabinets that are almost as big as his will be and I get by with only 120cfm of air movement from 3" 120v fans and I keep perfect temps on both cabinets. My flower room is 4'x4'x7' and 2 4" fans ( 2 seperate stages of cooling) connected to my automation system keeps the area perfect. I also use 2 4" fans, one pushes and one pulls for my 600watt cool tube and it works perfectly with about 6 feet of ducting total.. Temps are 78 on and 65 off. Go with the smallest fan you can get away with and the noise and vibration will be even less of a factor to deal with, not to mention a bit cheaper to buy and operate. you can stand outside the room and barely hear the air being pulled into the intake duct. stealth and efficiency. I have a 4" fan setup with a 14" carbon filter from blackhill filters and smell is never an issue as of yet anyway, about 2 weeks into flowering.

There are many ways this can be done without the screaming noise of a 6" fan on a small cabinet. My friend let me borrow one for a while and the noise made it unbearable, that is why I went with much smaller fans.

Peace

Asmallvoice
Click to expand...
I also have a cabenit grow going, about 4'Wx3'Dx7'H with a 600hps cool tube. For this I purchased a 190 cfm inline fan 4" with carbon filter. I can't think of keeping my temps where yours are. When I close my doors I need to turn my ballast down to 50% to keep that thing cool!! I have had to keep doors open with TWO fans bouncing air off walls and still only time I get it to stable out at 79*F is if I keep my house at 75*. All other times I'm at 82-84*F and 75*F at night. I have ducting running air out so ambient air is cool but hps just gets too hot! I would love to see some pics of your setup!

@rollyouron, if you plan on keeping the cfl's I don't see an issue at all with all this BUT if you are going HPS ever you're going to need to invest in a good intake as well unless you can get a small AC unit to help but idk about those low temps... I've spent about $300 so far just on venting to try and bring temps down and only solution I found is build a bigger room. So that's what I'm doing. If anyone can show images of how they run their ducting and all venting and can teach me a thing or two, then let's see it. If no one can produce this awesome plan for their setup so both you and I can mimick it, I would plan for some serious heat issues with anything over 300watt hps! Not trying to rain on your parade bro just being honest! I grow for me so can't afford to keep my house at 75*F ALL YEAR ROUND!!! Now making a small 4x4x10 room with its very own AC duct bouncing air off the ground along with a couple oscillating fans to HOPEFULLY keep it 77-80*F. Also about to pull the trigger on a very expensive LED JUST because of heat. If that says anything. wish I could post backing ASV up but either it's winter and snowing where he's at or I'm just doing something really wrong! Good luck with your grow either way! Even with the heat issues they grow lol. HG!
 
maineyankee

maineyankee

Active Member
We must be neighbors Spectator !! :-) I am currently having the very same issue as you are, and also am looking for the "Ultimate" answer to cooling my cabs !! I hope that someone with knowledge can help us out with a "show and tell", and yes .... they do come back after being heat stressed, but I know I do not bounce back like that when I am heated up like my poor plants are. Peace:leaf:
 
ASMALLVOICE

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
SpectatorFernFirm said:
I also have a cabenit grow going, about 4'Wx3'Dx7'H with a 600hps cool tube. For this I purchased a 190 cfm inline fan 4" with carbon filter. I can't think of keeping my temps where yours are. When I close my doors I need to turn my ballast down to 50% to keep that thing cool!! I have had to keep doors open with TWO fans bouncing air off walls and still only time I get it to stable out at 79*F is if I keep my house at 75*. All other times I'm at 82-84*F and 75*F at night. I have ducting running air out so ambient air is cool but hps just gets too hot! I would love to see some pics of your setup!

@rollyouron, if you plan on keeping the cfl's I don't see an issue at all with all this BUT if you are going HPS ever you're going to need to invest in a good intake as well unless you can get a small AC unit to help but idk about those low temps... I've spent about $300 so far just on venting to try and bring temps down and only solution I found is build a bigger room. So that's what I'm doing. If anyone can show images of how they run their ducting and all venting and can teach me a thing or two, then let's see it. If no one can produce this awesome plan for their setup so both you and I can mimick it, I would plan for some serious heat issues with anything over 300watt hps! Not trying to rain on your parade bro just being honest! I grow for me so can't afford to keep my house at 75*F ALL YEAR ROUND!!! Now making a small 4x4x10 room with its very own AC duct bouncing air off the ground along with a couple oscillating fans to HOPEFULLY keep it 77-80*F. Also about to pull the trigger on a very expensive LED JUST because of heat. If that says anything. wish I could post backing ASV up but either it's winter and snowing where he's at or I'm just doing something really wrong! Good luck with your grow either way! Even with the heat issues they grow lol. HG!
Click to expand...
Morning M8,

Do you have the same fan doing the filter and the light? I have 2 small fans on the light, one pushes and one pulls and they are rated at 120cfm ea. with 3-4 feet of duct on either side. I have 2 more fans that I use to actually vent the room and a 4" vortex fan at roughly 200+/- cfm with a 14" carbon filter that scrubs the air, it just sits on the floor and recirculates the air, it is not ducted anywhere. I also have a duct off of the central air of thehouse that serves the room. It knows when the system is in heating or cooling and uses it accordingly. If you try to do the filter and the light with that fan, I do not think that will move enough air to pull the heat from that 600 watt cool tube. I hope I understood you correctly, I am still on my first cup of coffee and a pretty decent wake and bake..lol

Payday is the 15th and now that Christmas is paid for, I am going to get a much better camera than the POS I have been trying to use. I have a post of my room a few pages back ( last update was 12-27-12) and one on my automation system as well. One of these days I will learn how to put the links to my grow and room in my sig that actually work...lol

Peace

Asmallvoice
 
SpectatorFernFirm

SpectatorFernFirm

Active Member
That makes a lot of sense buddy! I have the same fan for my filter and light. I'll put the pic up to show you what I am working with. I am about to purchase a 6" inline just for the light while I save a couple more dollars for the LED's I want. $1000,00 EACH!!!! So needless to say those are a few months out lol. The heat can and more then likely WILL cause Herms but I can deal with it for now. So far my second go and no Herm issues yet. Still drying first Herm plant. Can't see any seeds on it tho, im sure they are in there tho! I have been thinking of fan for CF only then another fan for light. Im going to do that in the new under construction room tho. No more money for the cabenit, just not cutting it for me.

@Maineyankee LOL!! Your scaring me! My neighbor that just moved in is from NY lol! Buffalo NY, real coo guy. Loves his meds too!! Would die laughing if it where that small of a world! Check out my pics tho. This is how I have to run everything to get it to 82-84. Thinking of once this cycle is over about changing the light to be on at night time as it is cooler then but IDK how I can change the light cycle without pissing them off! Also I put a new one in every two to three weeks to keep a cycle going so I'd probably have to stop adding plants so I can change the hours. Might just say fuk it and shock the crap out of them with an entire day of dark and then flipping the lights back on at night time with their new cycle. IDK, here are the pics tho, chek'em out!


setup 4.JPGsetup 3.JPGsetup 2.JPGsetup 1.JPG
 
ASMALLVOICE

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
SpectatorFernFirm said:
That makes a lot of sense buddy! I have the same fan for my filter and light. I'll put the pic up to show you what I am working with. I am about to purchase a 6" inline just for the light while I save a couple more dollars for the LED's I want. $1000,00 EACH!!!! So needless to say those are a few months out lol. The heat can and more then likely WILL cause Herms but I can deal with it for now. So far my second go and no Herm issues yet. Still drying first Herm plant. Can't see any seeds on it tho, im sure they are in there tho! I have been thinking of fan for CF only then another fan for light. Im going to do that in the new under construction room tho. No more money for the cabenit, just not cutting it for me.

@Maineyankee LOL!! Your scaring me! My neighbor that just moved in is from NY lol! Buffalo NY, real coo guy. Loves his meds too!! Would die laughing if it where that small of a world! Check out my pics tho. This is how I have to run everything to get it to 82-84. Thinking of once this cycle is over about changing the light to be on at night time as it is cooler then but IDK how I can change the light cycle without pissing them off! Also I put a new one in every two to three weeks to keep a cycle going so I'd probably have to stop adding plants so I can change the hours. Might just say fuk it and shock the crap out of them with an entire day of dark and then flipping the lights back on at night time with their new cycle. IDK, here are the pics tho, chek'em out!


View attachment 2469166View attachment 2469167View attachment 2469168View attachment 2469169
Click to expand...
Nice looking setup M8. I would say the heat issues are coming from that fan being restricted by the filter and not flowing enough air to do both the light and the filter. It takes about 120cfm unrestricted to keep a 600 watt HPS cooltube cool and more like 300 or better for a 1000 watter. Have the vortex fan just for the filter, which will be a room exhaust and get a couple of 120 cfm axial (orion) fans( about $16 ea.), one to push and 1 to pull on just the light alone, and I would be willing to bet your temps will drop dramatically.

Hope this helps

Peace

Asmallvoice
 
TechnoMage

TechnoMage

Well-Known Member
Here's how I have my tent setup.

Fans and ballast 12-31-2012 12-47-046.JPG
This is the left side of the tent showing the variable speed controllers for both fans that are both set at 50%. My ballast and my two 6" Centrifugal fans, both of which are pushing into carbon filters.

For the fan in the back, the duct just opens into the tent.

The fan in front is for my light. This is almost certainly overkill. I could probably get away with an Axial inline fan if it wasn't being pushed into the carbon filter.

Ready to go 12-31-2012 12-50-018.JPG
Here's the inside of the tent showing the ducting, light hood and my tower fan. If you look in the upper right corner you can see one of the passive intakes from the inside.

Intakes 12-31-2012 12-52-037.jpg
Here's the right side of the tent and two of the intakes. One on the left is the intake for the light. The one on the right, and one below not seen are passive intakes into the tent. I just cover the intakes with some filter material to keep out dust.

Current ambient temp in the room is 72.0, current temp in the tent is 76.0. I could drop the temp more if I ran the fans at a higher speed but at the cost of more noise.
 
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