New to organics.

Hello all.

The truth is that I'm new to growing in general, only about a month in and I started with . People told me that due to using the seed starter soil which already contains plant food to not bother using nutes until the bottom starter leaves fall off.
Well it would appear that information was less than helpful as my plants currently look like:
.

I was also told by the person that got me into organics not to bother PH testing because I'm not using chemicals, well due to lack of ph testing I was unable to find out for certain that my plants should have been fed a lot sooner.

The guy sold me some good organic nutes(so I've heard - from other people). Problem with those are that they apparently take a couple weeks to take affect. I did a little bit of reading when I first entered this forum and it seems as though the reasoning for that is to do with the bugs that eat the nutes then other bugs eat those bugs and from there the nutes end up accessible by the roots(more to it than that but that's the jest of it).

Anyways because those nutes take a couple weeks to kick in I added some of this as a temporary supplement, I also tried boosting the ph with the previous feeding, idk if that combination was bad, honestly at this point my plants seem to be dying and I'm at a loss.

All that said I currently have and . I was suggested that when transplanting the plants to mix 10% earthworm castings to the pro-mix.

**LONG STORY SHORT** if I can fix the current plants then good but either way I am considering starting some new ones as a fail safe and this time I need to know exactly what to do in order to prevent what has happened to the first plants.
The current plan is to start the new seeds in jiffy pellets then do as above and transplant the jiffy's into the pro-mixHP + 10% earthworm castings with the recommended amount of this mixed in. I will be using the red party cups for the new plants. With that said, is that a recipe for success or am I missing something, will I need to add more fertilizer 2 weeks in despite it recommending monthly feeding's in order to give it that 2 weeks to break down? If it takes 2 weeks to break down do I need to supplement it with the liquid nute in order to start it off or will the seedling survive on water alone? I am growing my plants indoors, will those bugs that eat the bugs that eat the nutes still make it into my plants or is organic better off done outdoors or in an open grow space(I'm growing in a semi-sealed closet).

Nothing?

The tops of your plants still look nice ane dark green. I don't think they're hungry. I think they need bigger pots and are rootbound. Transplanting into larger pots of organic soil should help tremendously. It's not exactly bugs that do most of the work in breaking down your soil for the plants, although outdoors bugs do play a part. It's mostly microbes, fungus, and bacteria that do the heavy lifting of breaking down plant food into a usable form. You can add worm castings and/or compost to boost your soil life. You can also make act teas with the help of an air pump. I would suggest doing some reading about ACT teas and soil biology since they are the cornerstone of organic gardening.

In the meantime there is a recipe you can make for your plants called lactobacillus, which I just posted a recipe for here recently. This doesn't require any air pumps or complicated technology. Just rice, milk, and molasses applied at the proper times.

MjMama said:

The tops of your plants still look nice ane dark green. I don't think they're hungry. I think they need bigger pots and are rootbound. Transplanting into larger pots of organic soil should help tremendously. It's not exactly bugs that do most of the work in breaking down your soil for the plants, although outdoors bugs do play a part. It's mostly microbes, fungus, and bacteria that do the heavy lifting of breaking down plant food into a usable form. You can add worm castings and/or compost to boost your soil life. You can also make act teas with the help of an air pump. I would suggest doing some reading about ACT teas and soil biology since they are the cornerstone of organic gardening.

In the meantime there is a recipe you can make for your plants called lactobacillus, which I just posted a recipe for here recently. This doesn't require any air pumps or complicated technology. Just rice, milk, and molasses applied at the proper times.

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They are hungry, I know that but they seem to be dying kinda fast, if they keep going at that pace they could be dead by the time the powdery organic food kicks in. Adding the liquid nutes didn't seem to help but I guess I'll have a better idea tomorrow or the next day. As for teas are you talking about tea like the kind you make with tea bags and hot water? Sorry for sounding like a dumbass but no one told me about that and it's new to me.

If your plant was hungry the top wouldn't be so dark green. Your plants are rootbound and trying to give what evergy they have to the tops by killing off the bottom leaves. You've probably been over watering trying to keep them perky. When they really need a bigger pot. Please, from an experienced grower, just try a larger pot of fresh soil. Leaving them in that pot and continuing to feed is a death sentence IMO. A larger pot will give your plants fresh nutrients and more room to thrive. Adaquate root space is one of the most crucial parts of growing.

Time to transplant soon. Take a pic of the cotyledons please so we can see how much of them your plant used in that soil. Either she is getting hungry or you have a lock-out/rootbound

MjMama said:

If your plant was hungry the top wouldn't be so dark green. Your plants are rootbound and trying to give what evergy they have to the tops by killing off the bottom leaves. You've probably been over watering trying to keep them perky. When they really need a bigger pot. Please, from an experienced grower, just try a larger pot of fresh soil. Leaving them in that pot and continuing to feed is a death sentence IMO. A larger pot will give your plants fresh nutrients and more room to thrive. Adaquate root space is one of the most crucial parts of growing.

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I'll take another look when I go in after the night cycle, I may consider transplanting, frankly it couldn't hurt at this point.

Can you also fill me in more about the teas? mandatory or optional? when to use and how to apply .etc?

Xephier said:

Can you also fill me in more about the teas? mandatory or optional? when to use and how to apply .etc?

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pretty much mandatory man, you can find all the info you need in the organic section in this site. whatever you do man, dont trust your hydro store guy. they might be friendly and act like theyre trying to help you but in reality all they want is for you to spend your money, most of them at least.

here are some threads that can help you out from this site -
https://www.rollitup.org/t/soil-food-web-gardening-with-compost-teas.427826/
https://www.rollitup.org/t/organic-feeding-101.510995/
https://www.rollitup.org/t/recycled-organic-living-soil-rols-and-no-till-thread.636057/
https://www.rollitup.org/t/aact-bloom-tea-veg-tea-fungal-tea-myco-tea-recipes-from-the-outdoor-guys.516845/

the most important thing about organic growing is your soil. im still new to organics so its a little hard for me to explain myself. heres a good thread from this site on a good soil recipe -
https://www.rollitup.org/t/subs-supersoil.539844/

you can really find everything you need to know on roll it up. get ready to spend hours and hours of reading, trust me man it will be worth it! good luck stay lifted!!

Sunny Organics said:

pretty much mandatory man, you can find all the info you need in the organic section in this site. whatever you do man, dont trust your hydro store guy. they might be friendly and act like theyre trying to help you but in reality all they want is for you to spend your money, most of them at least.

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Actually this one tends to try to get me to spend the least money whenever possible, he's more about customer satisfaction than money but so far he seems to give shitty advice on organics..

However he did tell me that organics would be the "easy way to go" fuck, worst information ever.... it now seems the most complex route and I wish that I'd gone chemicals to start..

Xephier said:

I'll take another look when I go in after the night cycle, I may consider transplanting, frankly it couldn't hurt at this point.

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It didn't help either.. These pictures are one day apart. The lighting is off but it's clear to tell from the leaf to the right of the picture that this plant is getting worse on a daily basis... I already bought my soil and now I get a craplaod more info tossed at me, in all honesty I think I fucked up bigtime by going organic, I shoulda just went with chemicals off the bat..

Xephier said:

It didn't help either..View attachment 3415262 View attachment 3415263 These pictures are one day apart. The lighting is off but it's clear to tell from the leaf to the right of the picture that this plant is getting worse on a daily basis... I already bought my soil and now I get a craplaod more info tossed at me, in all honesty I think I fucked up bigtime by going organic, I shoulda just went with chemicals off the bat..

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bro.the problem is you don't know how to grow. you have no patience you set unrealistic goals and you think someone can just explain to you how u can grow a lot of good weed..it doesn't work like that growing is like anything else in life it takes practice you will learn as you fail and eventually you will find things that work for you...don't get bummed out if you kill a few or if the quality sucks or if u get small yields. You should get all those things because you don't know what you're doing. Some people are better at certain things then others...anyone can learn to grow a plant to some it just comes easier, that's life... The only way to learn is to experience it yourself...If you get a qp from the light that's a win. many people can't keep it alive long enough to harvest anything. be okay with whatever happens, even if it takes a few grows to break even. so what? if you really want to grow for income then you should be okay with the fact that it might take a while to get to the place you want to be. This isn't a get right quick scheme it's work and it's something that has to be learned. Reading only takes you so far it sends you in directions you still have to apply it to real life situations...keep on keeping on man and don't get down on yourself if it doesn't all come together right away...Also using different nutrients won't change the fact that you have zero experience. You will still go threw many problems...but thinking switching nutes will solve problems is dumb...any chemical guy can grow using organics..and any organic grower can grow using chemicals. .it's not rocket science.

mr sunshine said:

but thinking switching nutes will solve problems is dumb...

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If I was going into chem nutes completely blind then I would agree with you but the reason I'm seeing this as the "easy button" is because my friend(that I trust, I've known him a long time) has a lot of experience and can guide me step by step just getting the nutes that he uses and applying them the same way. Two people doing the exact same thing the exact same way should not produce different results. I'm not saying that swapping the nutes will make the plants spring back to life and hell these plants might be done for but I started a few new ones and I'll be doing those fresh, the same way that he did them step by step. I am sure that a part of the reason that I am doing badly(apart from lack of experience) is that I've been listening to people on the forums, hydroshop guy and a little from my friend(whom knows nothing about organics). So it's pretty well summed up with this picture .

Xephier said:

If I was going into chem nutes completely blind then I would agree with you but the reason I'm seeing this as the "easy button" is because my friend(that I trust, I've known him a long time) has a lot of experience and can guide me step by step just getting the nutes that he uses and applying them the same way. Two people doing the exact same thing the exact same way should not produce different results. I'm not saying that swapping the nutes will make the plants spring back to life and hell these plants might be done for but I started a few new ones and I'll be doing those fresh, the same way that he did them step by step. I am sure that a part of the reason that I am doing badly(apart from lack of experience) is that I've been listening to people on the forums, hydroshop guy and a little from my friend(whom knows nothing about organics). So it's pretty well summed up with this picture View attachment 3415526.

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it doesn't work that way dude .. be realistic expect problems learn how to solve them..Learn from first hand experience it doesn't matter what people say or do..eventually you'll find your way... If you were using chemical nutes your plants would be way worse because you weren't ph'ing...The environment! the heat the strain.. u never know how a plants going to react not every plant is the same...

Xephier said:

Actually this one tends to try to get me to spend the least money whenever possible, he's more about customer satisfaction than money but so far he seems to give shitty advice on organics..

However he did tell me that organics would be the "easy way to go" fuck, worst information ever.... it now seems the most complex route and I wish that I'd gone chemicals to start..

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if he was all about customer satisfaction why did he make you buy all that stuff, he couldve just given you a recipe for a super soil and all you had to do was give it water. you coudlve top dressed with the same amendments you used on your super soil, plus you couldve used those amendments to make teas. not trying to bring you down bro but i would go slap that hydro guy in the face haha. i tend to mad dog them when they try to sell me some dumb things that are completely uneccessary.

ive had it done to me so many times just because im a young guy and they think im dumb or something. i remember a while back i had a cal-mg defieciency and the yellow spots are very similar to spider mites. he was trying to sell me a 60$+ product for spider mites, a tiny bottle. im just like wow... i straight up talked shit to him hahaha and since then he respects me as a person. i think synthetic nutes are way easier than organics, organic growing becomes easier after you look up the information, teas, and what not. watch videos man, im serious about roll it up... they have everything you need here.

if you don't want to listen to people dude, listen to the plants. they will tell you what they want if you learn how to interpret their signs.

I can't help you tho

mr sunshine said:

bro.the problem is you don't know how to grow. you have no patience you set unrealistic goals and you think someone can just explain to you how u can grow a lot of good weed..it doesn't work like that growing is like anything else in life it takes practice you will learn as you fail and eventually you will find things that work for you...don't get bummed out if you kill a few or if the quality sucks or if u get small yields. You should get all those things because you don't know what you're doing. Some people are better at certain things then others...anyone can learn to grow a plant to some it just comes easier, that's life... The only way to learn is to experience it yourself...If you get a qp from the light that's a win. many people can't keep it alive long enough to harvest anything. be okay with whatever happens, even if it takes a few grows to break even. so what? if you really want to grow for income then you should be okay with the fact that it might take a while to get to the place you want to be. This isn't a get right quick scheme it's work and it's something that has to be learned. Reading only takes you so far it sends you in directions you still have to apply it to real life situations...keep on keeping on man and don't get down on yourself if it doesn't all come together right away...Also using different nutrients won't change the fact that you have zero experience. You will still go threw many problems...but thinking switching nutes will solve problems is dumb...any chemical guy can grow using organics..and any organic grower can grow using chemicals. .it's not rocket science.

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god this would have to be the best advise ive seen on here wish id had it when i first started out and ive been here for years SIFTING ROUND,shit me bro ive been growing a wee while now and i constantly trying my boundrys and always pushn and from that ive had more problems than i could throw a stick at but i took advice and researchd peoples ideas and from that over come all my problems well 90% lol the other 10% is me being stubborn but i started out with small yeilds growing with cfls and then moved up to hps from the little 70w,150w,250w,400w ive been there and jammed it out now im staying with my 400w (i dont have alot of space)and been going straight organic ive had a hard time my last 3-4grows but ive improved bro and so will you just take it one step at a time youl see results may not be magnificent but youl see them time and patients are your friend bro

Bshbloke said:

but i took advice and researchd peoples ideas and from that over come all my problems well 90%

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Ya, that step right there is the one that I aimed to hit off the bat. I don't like screwing around and wasting time. I'm near 35 and accomplished nothing in life so the less time wasted the better. If I'm being honest my first 5 plants might die or get small yields. I've stressed them, fucked up on their feeding, maybe fucked up on their ph, overwatered at the beginning, underwatered at least once ,etc. I aim to do much better on my second batch, I have 7 seeds and a clone started now. I have no idea how the clone will work out because I've never cloned before and I hear that they have a higher rate of failure than seeds but we'll see. I also just topped all of my plants, I'm gonna see if I can get them to sprout multiple tops. I think I may have fucked up on one(as in I may only get one top out of it instead of two) but a bit early to tell.

Ya I mean I get that there's always going to be the fuck up and fail portion of beginner growing but as I've said before I'd like to try to avoid as much of it as possible and the fuck ups that I do make I do not plan to repeat on my second batch.

Time is of the essence my friend don't rush take time and a deficiency does not improve in a day and nor will the bad leaves get better

Xephier said:

Ya, that step right there is the one that I aimed to hit off the bat. I don't like screwing around and wasting time. I'm near 35 and accomplished nothing in life so the less time wasted the better. If I'm being honest my first 5 plants might die or get small yields. I've stressed them, fucked up on their feeding, maybe fucked up on their ph, overwatered at the beginning, underwatered at least once ,etc. I aim to do much better on my second batch, I have 7 seeds and a clone started now. I have no idea how the clone will work out because I've never cloned before and I hear that they have a higher rate of failure than seeds but we'll see. I also just topped all of my plants, I'm gonna see if I can get them to sprout multiple tops. I think I may have fucked up on one(as in I may only get one top out of it instead of two) but a bit early to tell.

Ya I mean I get that there's always going to be the fuck up and fail portion of beginner growing but as I've said before I'd like to try to avoid as much of it as possible and the fuck ups that I do make I do not plan to repeat on my second batch.

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U can't avoid being a beginner.


How much do you plan on pulling with that light?