norhern lights #5 sucks! don't grow it! (read more inside!)

Dunbar Santiago said:

Implying that plants grown with chem nutes are lacking, really shows how inexperienced you are. That's one of the oldest urban myths of growing. NL5 an A++++ strain? More potent than kushes (I assume you're talking OGs and not landrace)? Not even bro. Are you hazey grapes' indica loving twin?

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100% agree with chem nutes having no effect on final product if you know how to finish out a plant right and agree that NL5 is not as strong as Kushs if your talking OG kushes. Doesnt show inexperience though just that he likes organics and hasnt came across any properly finished bud that chem nutes were used and he likes old school strains more then modern day kushes, alot of old heads do.

The idea that everyone HAS to like Northern Lights, or did something wrong is a childish assumption.

not everyone digs the same kind of plants.

Dunbar Santiago said:

Implying that plants grown with chem nutes are lacking, really shows how inexperienced you are. That's one of the oldest urban myths of growing. NL5 an A++++ strain? More potent than kushes (I assume you're talking OGs and not landrace)? Not even bro. Are you hazey grapes' indica loving twin?

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Most chemically grown plants are horribly dialed in, and as a result, cannot compare to Organically produced product. If they're dialed in, no difference practically speaking. Much harder to dial in chemical nutes as you need to not use bottles to have a chance and instead individual elements that you mix into a formula you create yourself.

booms111 said:

100% agree with chem nutes having no effect on final product if you know how to finish out a plant right and agree that NL5 is not as strong as Kushs if your talking OG kushes. Doesnt show inexperience though just that he likes organics and hasnt came across any properly finished bud that chem nutes were used and he likes old school strains more then modern day kushes, alot of old heads do.

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This is one of the biggest misconceptions about growing with chemical fertilizers.
Now i know you will claim bullshit on this, cause of pride, but plants and people are very similar.
So when a human ingest too much chemical food, gets vaccines, or takes too many non organic supplements, it gets stored. This material does not readily come out of tissue. It actually has to be physically detoxed from your body. Not just drink plenty of water, cause this will not bring the toxic material back out of tissue.
Plant are very similar, and when you start your regiment and max out what the plant can take, say 1200 ppm or whatever you use, the excess will go directly into the plant tissuse and is stored. By the time you see those little leaf tip yellow, its too late. The plant is already storing the excess toxic compounds in their tissue. So you can flush all you want, it wont clean this material out of your plants!!! This is why that even well grown chemicals will be harsh after prolonged use, and the flavors fade and the high is weaker!
I have grown with chemicals for many years before i switched about ten years ago.....and still am trying to perfect the finish, to where its super healthy, but fades just right, so no fertilizer residue. It is not an easy process.
So you can call me inexperienced all you want, or think i dont know shit, cause i couls give a rats ass what you think, and thats why you will never experience what a great Northern Lights has to offer.
So grow your chem weed and think your an expert, cause you can follow instructions well, but dont act like you guys know all, cause you dont!!

The actual problem with chemical nutrient solutions is that they are not specific enough. To use them properly requires lab equipment and other extensive kinds of work that literally almost no one puts in. Organically grown buds taste better because the plant gets what it wants. Both ionic forms are the same and there's never been a demonstratable difference, the difference comes from nutrient ratios the plant takes in. Chemical nutrients require you to make that ratio perfect. Organics will do it for you more or less (with only the odd soil test required to determine what you need to amend with).

kona gold said:

This is one of the biggest misconceptions about growing with chemical fertilizers.
Now i know you will claim bullshit on this, cause of pride, but plants and people are very similar.
So when a human ingest too much chemical food, gets vaccines, or takes too many non organic supplements, it gets stored. This material does not readily come out of tissue. It actually has to be physically detoxed from your body. Not just drink plenty of water, cause this will not bring the toxic material back out of tissue.
Plant are very similar, and when you start your regiment and max out what the plant can take, say 1200 ppm or whatever you use, the excess will go directly into the plant tissuse and is stored. By the time you see those little leaf tip yellow, its too late. The plant is already storing the excess toxic compounds in their tissue. So you can flush all you want, it wont clean this material out of your plants!!! This is why that even well grown chemicals will be harsh after prolonged use, and the flavors fade and the high is weaker!
I have grown with chemicals for many years before i switched about ten years ago.....and still am trying to perfect the finish, to where its super healthy, but fades just right, so no fertilizer residue. It is not an easy process.
So you can call me inexperienced all you want, or think i dont know shit, cause i couls give a rats ass what you think, and thats why you will never experience what a great Northern Lights has to offer.
So grow your chem weed and think your an expert, cause you can follow instructions well, but dont act like you guys know all, cause you dont!!

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WOW dude. I said it DOESNT show inexperience, I was actually defending your opinions even though i dont agree with them...If you know how to use a PPM pen properly and cut off chem nutes at 21 days from harvest and feed with plain water from then on...

OGEvilgenius said:

The actual problem with chemical nutrient solutions is that they are not specific enough. To use them properly requires lab equipment and other extensive kinds of work that literally almost no one puts in. Organically grown buds taste better because the plant gets what it wants. Both ionic forms are the same and there's never been a demonstratable difference, the difference comes from nutrient ratios the plant takes in. Chemical nutrients require you to make that ratio perfect. Organics will do it for you more or less (with only the odd soil test required to determine what you need to amend with).

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Exactly! Once you get the right chemical nutrient ratio perfect by using the same nutrients for many years, testing the ppm runoff every single time and keeping a running log. Plus once you know how to properly fade a plant out you will be rewarded with same buds as organic.

Fading out a plant isn't a good practice. And it makes no difference on flavor except to make it less flavorful due to the fact the plant couldn't receive nutrients it wanted to receive during it's most highly resin producing period. That's a complete myth. My OD didn't fade at all, burns white ash and tastes quite good - especially considering it's real OD. Grown organically.

I suspect you could probably further dial in your plants booms although because a lot of MJ growers use similar formulas, breeders use them as well and I think unconsciously end up selecting plants more suited to these formulas.

Anyway there was a hydro guy in a high Brix gardening thread talking about this subject. People always bag on hydro, but the reality is if you feed the plants properly it can compete taste wise. This hydro guy invested in a refractometer and sap PH test kit and was able to determine after a lot of work that he needed to reduce certain elements of his feed and vice versa. Wound up feeding the plants a bit less, they grew much healthier and tasted amazing.

He was attaining BRIX sap measurements in the 20's whereas most are below 10 (unless organically grown which it's not uncommon to see levels above 10 although many mixes are lacking and as a result over 20 is rare). Brix measures light refraction through the sap, the more sugars and other things in the sap the more the light will refract. So you get an objective measure of plant health, at least hypothetically. There's a lot of great anecdotal evidence backed up by lab work but not much real study has been done, large scale agricultural comparisons and such.

What a great idea for a thread and kudos on the awesome spelling job

Maybe fading to you means something different to you then it does to me? My fading style my plants have nutrients through the entire fading stage until picked. I keep a running log on ppm constantly from 2 weeks before bloom until harvest. Once you get to know your plants and the exact day you like to pick them is how i base when to start fade. Im not saying that this is the right way since there is so many right ways that work and this works for me. Im sure OGEvil youd enjoy some of my smoke just as i would yours!

I'm sure your buds are tasty and delicious. It's just another marijuana grow book myth that bugs me.

How organic is organic, that is the question?

Miracle grow has an organic fertilizer line but is it really a "true" organic.

So Peak has been mentioned twice and I've been considering ordering a pack of his NL#5. I wonder is it the real deal Holyfield?

OGEvilgenius said:

The actual problem with chemical nutrient solutions is that they are not specific enough. To use them properly requires lab equipment and other extensive kinds of work that literally almost no one puts in. Organically grown buds taste better because the plant gets what it wants. Both ionic forms are the same and there's never been a demonstratable difference, the difference comes from nutrient ratios the plant takes in. Chemical nutrients require you to make that ratio perfect. Organics will do it for you more or less (with only the odd soil test required to determine what you need to amend with).

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Well said!

I look at it this way: A plant has a fixed genetic potential. It is 100% possible for a plant to reach that genetic potential grown any way under the sun, but it's more likely that this will happen if the plant was grown organically. As you pointed out, the plant gets what it wants, when it wants it. It's in charge, and works in unison with the soil food web. My only concern is making sure that I have properly inoculated the medium and loaded it with a good ratio of organic amendments. The plant and the microbes do the rest. A grower using synthetic nutrients has to call the shots for the entire grow. This is usually guess work until that specific strain has been worked with for a while

Smidge34 said:

So Peak has been mentioned twice and I've been considering ordering a pack of his NL#5. I wonder is it the real deal Holyfield?

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It's the real deal. I think to find a truly over the top plant would require hunting through packs, but every plant I grew (4 total) were fairly similar and reminded me very much of old school NL. Only difference being the buzz not lasting as long as I remember. Might have had something to do with my tolerance as a younger person.

st0wandgrow said:

Well said!

I look at it this way: A plant has a fixed genetic potential. It is 100% possible for a plant to reach that genetic potential grown any way under the sun, but it's more likely that this will happen if the plant was grow organically. As you pointed out, the plant gets what it wants, when it wants it. It's in charge, and works in unison with the soil food web. My only concern is making sure that I have properly inoculated the medium and loaded it with a good ratio of organic amendments. The plant and the microbes do the rest. A grower using synthetic nutrients has to call the shots for the entire grow. This is usually guess work until that specific strain has been worked with for a while

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The guy I mentioned in the Brix thread running hydro thought he was dialed in. He wasn't. But yes, I concur more or less.

Complexities to consider when using chemical nutrients - are the plants really going to want the same things all through flower? Is it really going to be bang, week 5 need to switch to a different ratio now - or is it actually slowly changing that ratio as the plant develops? I think the latter is more likely and as a result I don't think for most people chemically grown stuff will ever be as dialed (unless they are very fastidious and have a lab available to them).

booms111 said:

WOW dude. I said it DOESNT show inexperience, I was actually defending your opinions even though i dont agree with them...If you know how to use a PPM pen properly and cut off chem nutes at 21 days from harvest and feed with plain water from then on...nevermind you already know everything...

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Sorry, i quoted your post, as i was attacking you bro. I didnt mean that....i used it as a general example. No offense meant!

Good NL will be close to OG in potency for me and others. OG is a clone only and NL is mostly seed. If you search thru hundreds of different phenos of a strain you will find a real bell ringer.

kona gold said:

This is one of the biggest misconceptions about growing with chemical fertilizers.
Now i know you will claim bullshit on this, cause of pride, but plants and people are very similar.
So when a human ingest too much chemical food, gets vaccines, or takes too many non organic supplements, it gets stored. This material does not readily come out of tissue. It actually has to be physically detoxed from your body. Not just drink plenty of water, cause this will not bring the toxic material back out of tissue.
Plant are very similar, and when you start your regiment and max out what the plant can take, say 1200 ppm or whatever you use, the excess will go directly into the plant tissuse and is stored. By the time you see those little leaf tip yellow, its too late. The plant is already storing the excess toxic compounds in their tissue. So you can flush all you want, it wont clean this material out of your plants!!! This is why that even well grown chemicals will be harsh after prolonged use, and the flavors fade and the high is weaker!
I have grown with chemicals for many years before i switched about ten years ago.....and still am trying to perfect the finish, to where its super healthy, but fades just right, so no fertilizer residue. It is not an easy process.
So you can call me inexperienced all you want, or think i dont know shit, cause i couls give a rats ass what you think, and thats why you will never experience what a great Northern Lights has to offer.
So grow your chem weed and think your an expert, cause you can follow instructions well, but dont act like you guys know all, cause you dont!!

Click to expand...

These chemicals you speak of are the same damn chemicals in organic dirt. P is P, N is N, no matter how you look at it. Like OG said, it's the ratios. You're not giving your plants anti freeze by feeding them non organically. You are confused by the word "chemical" and how plants use nutes. Re educate yourself bro bro. You're the one acting like a know-it-all, and are mistaken.

There are some studies that show chemically chelated nutrient salts can be carcinogenic when burned.