Not Knowing any Different

Those of us old enough to have parents that grew up in the 40s & 50s have probably heard our parents talk about how things were back then. One of the things that sticks out in my mind is when people from that age group talk about being poor. Specifically, when they say "we were poor but so was everyone else so we didn't know any different."

I think it is easy to overlook the fact that our perception of the world is to a large extent, dictated by our experiences, and that many people think that life is a certain way because it is all they have ever known.

There is little question that we live in a culture that is much more chaotic than it was years ago. Crime is much higher and because of technology and changing norms, we are exposed to aspects of humanity that were not previously part of the main stream.

For instance, suppose one were to reminisce about the days when families all sat down together for dinner, why this was important and why it is unfortunate that this is no longer the norm.

To one who has never had this experience, this point might seem silly. One might wonder how eating ones evening meal at the same time is any better than eating separately. After all, it isn't as if the food is more nutritious and surely there are no university studies that prove that there is any benefit from such an arrangement. One might even take the stance that eating dinner as a family is nothing more than silly superstition created by religious zealots to control people's lives and that it is a good thing people no longer believe such un-enlightened nonsense.

Lack of understanding of this type, in my opinion, stems from the fact that many people today grew up in a different world and never experienced what others of us have.

And this is true not just of the young, but of people from different backgrounds. Perhaps you have been around someone from a redneck background. Imagine how out of place that person would be in a fancy upscale restaurant.

In the end, what this boils down to is simply not knowing any different. Today we live in a culture that is rich in all forms of depravity and anti-social influence. It is no wonder that so many see this as normal, just like it is no wonder than the redneck would act obnoxiously in the upscale restaurant.

Our culture has been coarsened by what we see on TV and on Youtube (another huge example). And our collective perception has been skewed to think that this is all normal and acceptable in life. I think this is why so many are so accepting of so many things that would have never been accepted a few decades ago. Unfortunately, we as a culture are beginning not to know any different.

Kinda strange, is it not normal to have dinner with your family anymore. I think that maybe your thinking that times have changed much farther than they realy have, i see rednecks in nice resaturants all the time, i see families eating together all the time. I see families spending quality time together every day. maybe your not in the right place physically or mentally to see it, or understand that families do eat together, and spend time together. I think this is one area where the families have come a long way. when i grew up, my parents were too busy trying to make money, to spend as much time as they would have liked. I see all the time that 1 parent stays home to care for the kids, probably more so than "in the olden days".

I think this is on the same lines as "the war on christmas" we hear from the right every year, thinking there is an attack on something you believe in when there realy isnt.

Times have changed thats for sure, but i dont see it the same way you do. sure its more dangerous out there, and sometimes both parents have to work, and i know that there are families that are dysfunctional, but...... i think your putting that dysfunctional label on something that is different than what your used to, just because its different doesnt mean its wrong. or that every family is raising their children wrong nowadays.

I am old as dirt, and have seen alot in my day, even change. but i know that not all change is bad, i dont fear change. I found that there are 2 kinds of people in this world when it comes to change...... those that embrace change, and can bend with it, adjust themselves to the new realities and thrive. then there are the ones that fight change, that can not understand the reasoning behind it, and can not bend or even contemplate that change in a realistic manner. they find all thats bad in the change and cannot see the good. and refuse to see the good.

Acceptance of things that are different is what america is all about. its called tolerance, its called diversity. this is the biggest change that it sounds like your against, tolerance that some may raise their children differently than you. cultures are different and raise their children differently and your way of thinking does show your age, can you grasp change? can you tolerate differences in cultures and thoughts unlike your own? its the mind frame of the older generation that is stuck in the older way of thinking, their views will not change no matter what new info they recieve. change is bad in their minds, no matter what that change may be.

everyones perception of "normal" is dictated by their own preferences


who is anyone to say what is and what is not normal?

Psychology #101, what did I learn? No such thing as normal.

Everyone has a positive recollection of their youth, it's silly to come to the conclusion that because your subjective opinion about these experiences in your, or other peoples lives should dictate what the best way to live is.

...you know, speaking on normal, our times, and society....it seems we're living in the time of "mental disorders" Human behavior is recored and put into categories, why do we call them disorders? WTF?

Because they can be linked to chemical imbalances in the brain and often interfere with a persons ability to function. The pharmaceutical industry is prescribing too much Ritalin to children in America though.

Our family always ate together if we could untill I was in my teens, Both parents felt they had to work. Had I know different I would have told them no we need to eat together, but that would have been crazy on my part, I would not have been able to play hockey, Win a moto-x championship, Trips to mexico etc. There hard work did teach me to be responsible for myself and that was the price for the good things. But I would be a better cook.

figtree said:

Kinda strange, is it not normal to have dinner with your family anymore. I think that maybe your thinking that times have changed much farther than they realy have, i see rednecks in nice resaturants all the time, i see families eating together all the time. I see families spending quality time together every day. maybe your not in the right place physically or mentally to see it, or understand that families do eat together, and spend time together.

Or maybe you are delusional.

I think this is one area where the families have come a long way. when i grew up, my parents were too busy trying to make money, to spend as much time as they would have liked.

I see all the time that 1 parent stays home to care for the kids, probably more so than "in the olden days".

There are mountains of statistics to the contrary.


I think this is on the same lines as "the war on christmas" we hear from the right every year, thinking there is an attack on something you believe in when there realy isnt.

Actually that is just a gripe Bill O'reilly uses to kill time. And while the gripe is dumb, he is right in that most retail workers are saying "happy Holidays."

Times have changed thats for sure, but i dont see it the same way you do. sure its more dangerous out there, and sometimes both parents have to work,

"Sometimes?" Few can afford not to. Guess what, that is because the two income homes drive up the cost of everything and force everyone else to have two incomes. Basic economics.

and i know that there are families that are dysfunctional, but...... i think your putting that dysfunctional label on something that is different than what your used to,

And you would be wrong.

just because its different doesnt mean its wrong. or that every family is raising their children wrong nowadays.

No but many are. Wise people understand that while there are many wrong ways to do things there are usually very few right ways. This is true whether you are assembling a child's toy or teaching that child how to conduct themselves at a job interview.


I am old as dirt, and have seen alot in my day, even change. but i know that not all change is bad, i dont fear change. I found that there are 2 kinds of people in this world when it comes to change...... those that embrace change, and can bend with it, adjust themselves to the new realities and thrive. then there are the ones that fight change, that can not understand the reasoning behind it, and can not bend or even contemplate that change in a realistic manner. they find all thats bad in the change and cannot see the good. and refuse to see the good.

There are also those who know humility and understand that there are things in life that are deserving of our respect and should not be dismissed out of hand or monkeyed with in a hap hazard way.

Acceptance of things that are different is what america is all about. its called tolerance, its called diversity. this is the biggest change that it sounds like your against, tolerance that some may raise their children differently than you. cultures are different and raise their children differently and your way of thinking does show your age, can you grasp change? can you tolerate differences in cultures and thoughts unlike your own? its the mind frame of the older generation that is stuck in the older way of thinking, their views will not change no matter what new info they recieve. change is bad in their minds, no matter what that change may be.

Nonsense - these are just ad-hominem attacks. Maybe you are just incapable of comprehending the difference between change and decay. Maybe you are just arrogant and overestimate your ability to know what ought to be changed and what ought not be.

Maybe people like me see your arrogance but also see a wiser path. Just maybe, it is not fear but a greater understanding and insight that enables us to view issues in a way you can not. Maybe while all you see is the generic cliché of "change," some of us see a lot more. Have you ever considered these possibilities. After all, I'm not the one blowing the dust off of old, tired clichés about fear - that alone ought to tell you something.

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You have raised a great many baseless assumptions about what my views are and why I hold them. You have no idea what so ever what my views are or why I have them - it is dishonest to suggest that you do.

It is also foolish to assume, and dishonest to suggest that people who observe social decay are "afraid" of change. In fact, such a suggestion is really nothing more than a cliché and not so thinly veiled ad-hominem attack. Which does not surprise me in the slightest.

And here again is another good example of a common error in comprehension that I see a lot on this board. That is the tendency of a respondent to focus on an unimportant example instead of on the main point. This is not a thread about how many families still eat dinner together - though anyone paying attention knows the practice is far more rare than it used to be.

No, the point is that people raised in today's culture are often accepting of things they should not be because the given conduct might be all they have experience with. Look at how many kids are doing stupid stuff and posting it on youtube. Young women are beating the hell out of each other simply to put it on youtube to impress their friends. I don't know about any of you, but according to everyone I associate with, this just isn't something people, especially self respecting women do. However, I can see how others who are familiar with this sort of depravity might think it is common place. In other words, they don't know any different as the title suggests.

this just isn't something people, especially self respecting women do.

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That's extremely sexist

Look at how many kids are doing stupid stuff

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Oh kids these days Check out my post above.

And this is true not just of the young, but of people from different backgrounds. Perhaps you have been around someone from a redneck background. Imagine how out of place that person would be in a fancy upscale restaurant.

In the end, what this boils down to is simply not knowing any different. Today we live in a culture that is rich in all forms of depravity and anti-social influence. It is no wonder that so many see this as normal, just like it is no wonder than the redneck would act obnoxiously in the upscale restaurant.

Our culture has been coarsened by what we see on TV and on Youtube (another huge example). And our collective perception has been skewed to think that this is all normal and acceptable in life. I think this is why so many are so accepting of so many things that would have never been accepted a few decades ago. Unfortunately, we as a culture are beginning not to know any different.

I love the idea of going to a resturant and seeing all different types of people, If it's really upscale the "Redneck" would have to know differently and go buy some new clothes and "CHANGE".

I was not allowed to answer the phone while our family had dinner, Then I couldn't get a drink at our local place cause the tender was too busy with his texting. Now I know his #and instead of waiting on him to come I text him my order. I don't think it should be that way and I guess I could have stayed home and not had a drink. Do what you gota do.

I think we as a people still know different, we just chosse not to care.

mexiblunt said:

Our culture has been coarsened by
I was not allowed to answer the phone while our family had dinner.

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Nor was I. Believe it or not it was once considered rude to call anyone during dinner hours.

Good thing things have improved so now we can all be pestered by telephone solicitors while we eat.

Yep, all change is good alright - sarcasm intended.

PS. If I had to text that waiter it would be to tell him he isn't getting a TIP.

RickWhite said:

Nor was I. Believe it or not it was once considered rude to call anyone during dinner hours.

Good thing things have improved so now we can all be pestered by telephone solicitors while we eat.

Yep, all change is good alright - sarcasm intended.

PS. If I had to text that waiter it would be to tell him he isn't getting a TIP.

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That's just it, He doesn't care. He knows I usually won't tip him, but I will send him texts sometimes just as the boss comes by. Then he doesn't answer.

How do you know when dinner hours are these days? Just call! If they are eating and don't want to be pestered they won't answer, if they do it's obviously not that big a deal. That's what I do... If it's important they will call agian. To be honest I don't take ANY cell phone calls, I make them tho...private.

Everyone has a positive recollection of their youth, it's silly to come to the conclusion that because your subjective opinion about these experiences in your, or other peoples lives should dictate what the best way to live is.

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Funny enough I was thinking about this a while ago, couldn't this just be due to the fact parents look out for our children, so for them it is not much different if your family earns 30k a year or they earn 100k a year, you get the stuff you need, and since the children are not worried about bills they get along just fine.

There is little question that we live in a culture that is much more chaotic than it was years ago. Crime is much higher and because of technology and changing norms, we are exposed to aspects of humanity that were not previously part of the main stream.

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How do we really know crime is higher Rick?

You may believe it, because again it is easier to see and find out about with tv and the internet, but you don't think that there was just as much theft, murders, fights, robberies, rape, child abuse, and everything else back then?

Just because people were more spread out, and the data collection back in the day cannot hold a match to today's does not mean that somehow it was a better place, maybe more spread out (and possibly not considered a crime then(like kids working in coal mines today illegal, then legal)), but essentially still the same.

hanimmal said:

Funny enough I was thinking about this a while ago, couldn't this just be due to the fact parents look out for our children, so for them it is not much different if your family earns 30k a year or they earn 100k a year, you get the stuff you need, and since the children are not worried about bills they get along just fine.



How do we really know crime is higher Rick?

You may believe it, because again it is easier to see and find out about with tv and the internet, but you don't think that there was just as much theft, murders, fights, robberies, rape, child abuse, and everything else back then?

Just because people were more spread out, and the data collection back in the day cannot hold a match to today's does not mean that somehow it was a better place, maybe more spread out (and possibly not considered a crime then(like kids working in coal mines today illegal, then legal)), but essentially still the same.

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You must be joking right? You don't think this is a matter of public record? Do you think we just started collecting data in the past 10 years?

You know what - I'm going to go ahead and just end this discussion. You guys have made my point for me and discussions of this type are clearly pointless.

I did learn something however. I learned that those who think like you do so because you just don't know any better and because you simply lack certain insights.

There is nothing I can do or say to make you understand and that is becoming clear. I guess some things are just obvious to some people and elusive to others. I guess that is just how it is and how it always will be.

You must be joking right? You don't think this is a matter of public record? Do you think we just started collecting data in the past 10 years?

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Hmm, where did I say that? Did I say 10 years? Doesn't matter the time frame, go back to the 1700's you don't think that this was happening?

Go back 30 years ago, how much domestic abuse got reported? 70 years ago how many people do you think were killed and nobody ever knew.

Just because you can see stuff now, doesn't mean it is happening more. Christ man how narrow is your vision?

You know what - I'm going to go ahead and just end this discussion.

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You are such a baby, you really are full of yourself too. Were you spoiled as a child?

I don't like you I am leaving. If you are really so educated and better than all of us (you elitist), maybe you should prove it, but you cannot, you never answer shit.

You make racist claims like Obama is 'disproportionally" appointing blacks, but never post how many he did vs how many whites. You are full of simple observations congrats.

There is a reason your "paper" is only ready for publication, and not actually published isn't there? See funny enough sleeping in the next room to me is someone that has been published in a very well known medical journal, and it only took 2 months after the paper was finished. You may have more luck with some cook website, I am sure there are plenty that you visit that would be willing.

I did learn something however. I learned that those who think like you do so because you just don't know any better and because you simply lack certain insights.

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Ha! Insights like "Black people are bad, white are good"? Insights like not being promoted because the scary black man got a 'hand up', or some of the other crazy shit you have posted? Yeah you're right, my 'insight' is just by observing people like you in my family that feel the same way, and seeing how little good it does them.

There is nothing I can do or say to make you understand and that is becoming clear. I guess some things are just obvious to some people and elusive to others. I guess that is just how it is and how it always will be.

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Old cliche's are still around, look at cheney. spouting fear every chance he gets.

this is why i say the things i say, you are in denial about the facts. hate and fear are tools used on a daily basis by the right. and you know it. those arent the only negative tools they use and you know it. discrimination, is another good example. keep on calling the kettle black, mr.pot. hypocracy is a disease nowadays at least on the right.
Talk about arrogance?

funny thing i just thought of.

Rights all in an uproar cuz Obama put some blame on the right in his state of the union.
Rumsfeld actually called him weak because of it.

Little does he know about the admin he was part of.
G.W. did the same thing.
Oh also Ronald Reagan.

According to Rumsfeld they must have been weak as well, what do yall think? Typical hypocracy? or Weak presidents?