nutrient distribution and lollipopping

I know it's not an advanced technique, but I have a question about it on which I need the knowledge of someone who's hopefully both taken some plant biology and seen more frost than a Siberian windshield.

So, I believe I recall from random horticultural rantings that plants have particular relationships between substructures, i.e. - this bunch of roots is delivering what it absorbs to these particular stems/branches & leaves but not those, and the sugars returned are coming only from those same particular leaves. First, I'm just curious if there are any accessible things to be said about that - very much true? true for some processes and molecules/elements, but not others? If there are pathways, is there mutability to them? Are they absolute in their transport isolation or just highly favorable?

I'm actually hoping I'm talking complete or at least some degree of nonsense, b/c my initial impetus/question was about how people lollipop. I've read a lot of debate on here on lollipopping, and the frustrating thing is that there are decent arguments on both sides. You can jump on me for singling out these two if you need, but to me the best on either side seem to essentially be:
- pro - those low fruiting bodies won't develop b/c they're not getting enough light, and any resources going to them won't go on to...more desirable places.
- con - tearing out any healthy portion of a plant is robbing it of food and/or the tools it needs to make food.

Well, who doesn't want the best of both worlds? So, I find myself wondering this way - What would be the effect of removing only the buddings sites themselves, yet not the fan leaves, throughout that lower region where you'd normally do a bare-strip lollipop?

If that effect were the what I'd hope, then all of the energy-collecting/producing/storing capability of those lower fan leaves, (granted, they wouldn't be gathering near as much as the upper leaves right in the light), will still be going strong, only now delivering that energy to the main event. If your canopy is really a blackout and they yellow/die then whatever - at least they gave up the food before they went.

And of course this is why I wonder about the nature and mutability of the transport of resources throughout the plant - you may as well just strip 'em if they won't be able to send anything up-plant.

What think y'all veterans, botanists, et des savants fous?

No one? Too much of a dead horse in general? Sorry if I've been horrendously redundant, but I thought I'd been pretty sure I've not heard of this variant on the idea, not that I'd be surprised it's out there.

I read through it also and was hoping for a response. I try both methods out. I prefer to let the plant get rid of its own leaves but unless you have a particular style. Do you.

WAWill said:

No one? Too much of a dead horse in general? Sorry if I've been horrendously redundant, but I thought I'd been pretty sure I've not heard of this variant on the idea, not that I'd be surprised it's out there.

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WAWill said:

What would be the effect of removing only the buddings sites themselves, yet not the fan leaves, throughout that lower region where you'd normally do a bare-strip lollipop?

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Heh, what would be the effect? Huge buds!

If that effect were the what I'd hope, then all of the energy-collecting/producing/storing capability of those lower fan leaves, (granted, they wouldn't be gathering near as much as the upper leaves right in the light), will still be going strong, only now delivering that energy to the main event. If your canopy is really a blackout and they yellow/die then whatever - at least they gave up the food before they went.

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For the most part, yes. The fan leaves below the canopy tend to die and fall away before harvest.

And of course this is why I wonder about the nature and mutability of the transport of resources throughout the plant - you may as well just strip 'em if they won't be able to send anything up-plant.

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??

What think y'all veterans, botanists, et des savants fous?

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You've described what I do as a matter of course. Well, not just me. Feel free to look at the pics in the Free Seed thread link's in my sig. There's a pruning tutorial there, as well. Post back if you have questions. Good luck.

Simon

I guess I'm not sure of the question you are asking. But as long as a leaf is green it stays on my plant. When it ceases to pull it's own weight the plant will abort the tissue. There are a lot of things going on in a plant other than producing flowers. Roots and stem continue to grow.

I like your style

AimAim said:

I guess I'm not sure of the question you are asking. But as long as a leaf is green it stays on my plant. When it ceases to pull it's own weight the plant will abort the tissue. There are a lot of things going on in a plant other than producing flowers. Roots and stem continue to grow.

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AimAim said:

I guess I'm not sure of the question you are asking. But as long as a leaf is green it stays on my plant. When it ceases to pull it's own weight the plant will abort the tissue. There are a lot of things going on in a plant other than producing flowers. Roots and stem continue to grow.

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Dannysayo, SimonD, and AimAim - thanks, for the most part you've given me positive confirmations.

I think I can infer that the unanswered portion is moot, but I seem to have thrown folks where I got to transport. No worries. I'll give another shot from another angle.

K, so, have you ever seen experiments where they'll take some kind of solution with some kind of tracer, mildly radioactive or just fluorescent, and apply it to either a particular bunch of leaves or tuft of roots, all emanating from the same branch/root? Maybe I'm crazy, but I believe I remember seeing it. I also think I remember the cool thing being that the image of the result showed the tracer (at least initially) traveling by phloem/xylem ONLY (or at least largely) to an analogous tuft of roots or bunch of leaves, respectively. So, if you're lollipopping - what is that relationship at the level of a single fan leaf associated with a budding site coming from the crook of that same node? If the resources it produces don't support the other budding sites either up-branch or at large, either providing direct resources to them or to plant structures which in turn do, then all they're doing is restricting airflow and sucking co2/o2.

Again, anecdotally, it sounds like people do what I'd been thinking, which implies an answer to the initial question - transport is either not immutable, not absolute in its isolation, or I'm talking total dook - any of which work for me. I was just curious if anyone had some major horticulture background and could talk my ear off about it.

Thanks folks!