Organics in a Recirculating System

snowgrow19

Well-Known Member
So Ive been thinking about my failures in organic hydroponics, in a DWC and fast recirculating flooded tube system. Both are soilless, and can be done without any media, or with something like rockwool or hydroton. For inorganic salt based fertilizers which are chelated through chemical processes, a system such as these works extremely well. However, if you have tried it, I'm guessing you've come across some deficiency issues and stunted growth and lots of weird symptoms. General Hydroponics has been developing a product called BioSevia, which is supposed to be a hydroponic-friendly organic nutrient which somehow allows for microbial growth in water. Here is water they say about typical organic nutrients:

'In water their life conditions are not very comfortable as they lack of the soil buffering capacity that protects them from sudden changes of temperature or pH. Further more, they need an adequate “nesting” environment where to reproduce abundantly, with lots of oxygen and humidity. Dry they will die.'

So I understand that soil provides a buffer in case of sudden shifts in EC or pH or whatever. I also understand that good soil provides an airy, porous surface which is suitable for growth of bacteria and fungi, and that this is an essential part of growing organic. What I am wondering is if you were to use an inert growing medium such as hydroton or whatever as a sort of prefilter, where the nutrient solution recirculates from the root zones, through the inert medium, and back into the reservoir where it is aerated through passive methods such as the fast recirculation of water, or active methods such as air pumps. Could an inert medium used in this way provide an ideal breeding ground for microbes in a similar way to soil? Any thoughts on a way to do this?
 

Tamorin

Active Member
Dude lets talk. I use the ebb and grow 55 gallon drum with grodan as a medium not hydroton also we customized it to drip feed from top. As car as ec goes with recirculating i say it drops.1-.2 a day and i usual have to p.h. it every two days. I am planning to switch from g.h. flora series keep it simple to the organic line when i run out of nutes. So im with ya. I like what u posted and it leads me to believe im a prime canditate for the organics. Check out my video on youtube. R.I. ebb and grow drink guinness i think the video is called. Not many people are into this style of hydro and with the yields and quality ive been getting well worth the switch atleast to try.
 

snowgrow19

Well-Known Member
Dude lets talk. I use the ebb and grow 55 gallon drum with grodan as a medium not hydroton also we customized it to drip feed from top. As car as ec goes with recirculating i say it drops.1-.2 a day and i usual have to p.h. it every two days. I am planning to switch from g.h. flora series keep it simple to the organic line when i run out of nutes. So im with ya. I like what u posted and it leads me to believe im a prime canditate for the organics. Check out my video on youtube. R.I. ebb and grow drink guinness i think the video is called. Not many people are into this style of hydro and with the yields and quality ive been getting well worth the switch atleast to try.
Hey, I like where your heads at but my advice is run a test setup somehow cuz from my previous 2 tries, I can tell you it's a bitch to run organics in hydro. My thoughts on using hydroton or grodan were just speculation, the reason being I'm not sure how well an inert medium like grodan or hydroton would host the bacteria and fungi needed to process the nutrients in an organic formula, so that they'll become bioavailable for the plant to take in. Otherwise, my experience has been deficiencies and nutrient lockouts because the DWC and flooded tube systems i've used haven't provided a good environment for these.

With that said, I haven't tried a top feed system like you've got, but I think it might work well with grodan. Since it's very porous and retains moisture well, it seems like it would be a good environment for beneficial microbes. Try it out and let me know. Also, build in a filter somehow before your nutes recirculate back to the pump cuz your shit will fail in like 5 days if you don't have something to filter out all the sediment.

Also, your grow looks sick. One question though, is there a reason you're not trimming all the larf off the bottom? Wasn't sure if you do a gradual harvest or what. Looking good though. And smart putting plants down there, that furnace should provide all the CO2 you could want.
 

PeaceFarmer

Active Member
from my previous 2 tries, I can tell you it's a bitch to run organics in hydro.
Where exactly did you run into a problem? Were you getting clogged misters or something? Heres what I do: 2 tanks with 4 plants with 4" of standing water in the bottom, which leaves the roots exposed to o2 for about 20". The bottom of the container is completely covered with bacteria and other friendly stuff that is good for those roots. I use Fox Farms organic line and every nute that I put in the rez, I filter through a coffee filter. Also, my pump has a good filter, and is able to suck up small particles (kind of like a sump pump does). The misters that I have have a claim that they are clog free (they are yard irrigation misters that retract into the ground when the water is off). After every harvest I clean the whole system out with a little vinegar and water and flush it all out and make sure its really clean. Let me know what problems you had and I might be able to help.
 

snowgrow19

Well-Known Member
Where exactly did you run into a problem? Were you getting clogged misters or something? Heres what I do: 2 tanks with 4 plants with 4" of standing water in the bottom, which leaves the roots exposed to o2 for about 20". The bottom of the container is completely covered with bacteria and other friendly stuff that is good for those roots. I use Fox Farms organic line and every nute that I put in the rez, I filter through a coffee filter. Also, my pump has a good filter, and is able to suck up small particles (kind of like a sump pump does). The misters that I have have a claim that they are clog free (they are yard irrigation misters that retract into the ground when the water is off). After every harvest I clean the whole system out with a little vinegar and water and flush it all out and make sure its really clean. Let me know what problems you had and I might be able to help.
I always get deficiencies but using the exact same methods with the same brand (GH) inorganic line, everything goes perfectly. From what I've read, mine seems to be deficiencies stemming from lockups because the organic material is not being decomposed by the microbes. I haven't used foxfarm but maybe I should check it out. Are you using entirely organics?
 

PeaceFarmer

Active Member
Not gonna lie, I am quick to supplement with a chemical nute if it looks like problems are on the way. The way I keep nute lockout from happening is to use a lot of beneficial microbes (microbe brew from the bush doctor line which is fox farms). I also use sledgehammer from ff (1 drop per gallon) to help keep salt buildup from happening. All organic products MUST be filtered first though, run them through a coffee filter before mixing with water. You will notice a film start to develop in your tanks (not the Rez though, there should be NO organic buildup inside your Rez). The film will be a brown color and will settle very easily, it is not slimy but grainy, and around where the roots touch it it will be clean. Also, all the roots that touch this brown organic super food will be the whitest white ever. In organic aero, you have to follow a couple of rules:
1. Be able to quickly identify plant deficiencies and problems.
2. Check your plants about twice a day.
3. Keep the beneficial bacteria in your rez happy and encourage their growth.
4. Be on guard for algae, and be able to tell the difference between organic "sludge" and algae.

Hope this helps, hit me up if you have some more questions.
 

Tamorin

Active Member
Yeah I have alot of people ask me that about the shrizz what I call it. Im gonna clean up the bottom of one of my next plants to see what happens up top. we go thru it all and end up with the buds anyways, but I see the point of just putting the plants energy into the tops. The dude that taught me didnt so I never tried lol. Im glad u gave me the heads up on the organics settment, thanks. By the sounds of it im gonna do alittle more research, we use the grodan water absorbent product now, similar to sound proffing insulation. Ill geet into it more in the next 4-5 months just bought a house had to drop a pretty penny so Im stuck for another cycle but I think the next one with 24 flowering will give me some space for experimenting even if I do a small 6 bucket line. Ill keep ya posted took alittle while to get back to the tread.
 

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
This breeding ground can be created by geting a bag of sorts and fill it with perlite and
Tie it to the pump or air stone in the res and there you go a home for your bennys
 

snowgrow19

Well-Known Member
This breeding ground can be created by geting a bag of sorts and fill it with perlite and
Tie it to the pump or air stone in the res and there you go a home for your bennys
Sick, thanks for that, it sounds like a good idea. I'll try it next grow, this one I'm gonna go back to salt ferts cuz it's what I know and I need this grow to work out, if you know what I mean. Check out my journal, it's my new system! :) https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/432534-vertical-flooded-tube-dual-600w.html
 
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