Oxidising Agents, H2O2, Potassium Chlorate Etc

psyclone

psyclone

Well-Known Member
I have been reading some interesting stuff about the use of potassium Chlorate in the field of Aqua botanics, and am trial using some slow dissolve Pot Chlor tablets in my Chili plant system. They release Oxygen into the nutrient mix.
I know at high dosages this is used in weedkiller, but as the Oxidising part of a formulae.
I have also read in a paper where using high dosages (200g) per tree, it is used to induce out-of-season flowering in Longan trees (whatever they are). Tests have shown that no residuals remain in the fruit or flower.
Is anyone out there using Hydrogen Peroxide or Potassium Chlorate in their grows? What are your opinions?
Any feedback would be gratefully received.
http://http://www.aquabotanic.com/potassium.html is an interesting read.
 
R

ragemonkey

Active Member
Wouldn't you get chlorine dissolving in there too ? or at least chlorine salts

KClO3 . And if its releasing oxygen you'd be left with potassium chloride a derivitive of salt .

My chemistry is a little rusty but don't oxidisers only work in the presence of heat or easly oxidisned matter like glycerin ? So simply dissolving it in your water supply wouldnt realease the oxygen in the Potassium chlorate .

And keep that stuff away from sugar or any other high energy food .

Oxidiser+fuel+heat = bad thing
 
psyclone

psyclone

Well-Known Member
Did you follow the link? I am using Tablets made for aquaria, designed to oxygenate water and promote marine plant growth. Yes, do not explode it. I may be wrong, but doesn't oxidisation occur in the presence of Oxygen?
 
psyclone

psyclone

Well-Known Member
Chilli plants are looking fine with pot chlor additive, I will post some pics at the weekend.
 
psyclone

psyclone

Well-Known Member
Well I couldn't stick a pic in the page, but I hope it is now in my gallery.
This plant has had no lighting other than a window, and a week ago was was water stressed and rootbound. It is in hydro with Pot Chlor as oxidiser.
 
Al B. Fuct

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
psyclone, I use H2O2, 50% 'horticultural grade' @ 1ml/litre of tank volume, every 3-4 days as an antimicrobial. H2O2 breaks down into just hydrogen and oxygen.

Like the other reader, I would be very worried about where the Cl ions are going with potassium chloride.

Also, keep on the lookout for K toxicity- yellowing leaves, looks like nitrogen fert burn, beginning at the leaf tips and margins and moving toward the central leaf veins.
 
psyclone

psyclone

Well-Known Member
I shall watch it like a hawk-also why it is on my Chilli plants, which are in the living room. It is a Chlorate,not a Chloride and experiments with inducing out of season flowering have proved that there are no residuals left in the plant material.(USFDA) I will try to find that paper, and post it. If works I like it. Easy to handle and slow release.
Might speed up spliff burn, like a gunpowder trail. Suuuck<FLASH>woo
 
psyclone

psyclone

Well-Known Member
I was chatting to the owner of a very large aquatic outlet, he said that while well aerated water contains enough oxygen for plant growth (although boosting oxygen in a plant only enviroment is a benefit), what most systems lack is sufficient CO2 and he runs Co2 in all his planted tanks/mini lakes. I bought an entry level tablet diffuser system for £14.99 (SERA ON-LINE) and am testing it on my poor chilli's.
He also said that there is stronger CO2 uptake through the roots than leaves.
Any thoughts/advice?
 
Al B. Fuct

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
interesting stuff, psyclone!

My only question would be what happens to the pH of the water when it has had CO2 dissolved in it. Stuff I've been reading about global warming lately has said that water becomes more acidic when higher than normal amts of CO2 are introduced.
 
psyclone

psyclone

Well-Known Member
Good thought, I will check the Ph In the Chilli hydro. I think the tablets are PH balanced on dissolving, Fish and Corals are super delicate, and it is designed to help them flourish. It hadn't occured to me to test the PH after application. I will post the result, cheers.
 
psyclone

psyclone

Well-Known Member
Al B. Fuct said:
interesting stuff, psyclone!

My only question would be what happens to the pH of the water when it has had CO2 dissolved in it. Stuff I've been reading about global warming lately has said that water becomes more acidic when higher than normal amts of CO2 are introduced.
Click to expand...
Well I am glad you raised that, PH was 8.2 . When I put the chilli's into the Wilma System, I just chucked in the left over vegging nutes and topped it off with tap water without checking PH so I don't know where it started-fool I am. I shall clean it out and put in measured nutes, ph adjust and add the CO2 and Oxygen tablets and re-test after 4hrs
I will re-post the result. If it proves to be a problem that PH down finds it difficult to control, it may be worth trying one of the Gas/water diffusers they offer, as it could be the Citrate in the tabs raising PH.:-?
 
Al B. Fuct

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
I went back and read one of the trials you linked to. The plant which was given CO2 enriched water developed smaller leaves but was a larger plant by the end of the comparison. Makes some sense; the leaves would not have to work as hard as usual. However, I wonder if in cannabis plants that this translates into smaller buds with bigger stems.

A larger test sample (bigger than one control and one test subject, anyway) would be nice in these investigations. I frequently have plants which are treated identically perform quite differently for reasons that are not readily obvious to me.
 
Al B. Fuct

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
psyclone said:
Well I am glad you raised that, PH was 8.2
Click to expand...
That's precisely the opposite of the anecdotal hypothesis I encountered. If the soln were more acidic, your pH should have dropped, not risen.

If CO2 dissolved in water makes it more acidic, then something else in what you're adding is making your soln more alkaline.
 
psyclone

psyclone

Well-Known Member
Did you notice the plant mass increase? one plant gained 3grams (nonco2) the co2 root fed plant gained 86grams.
Although, as you say,why does one clone perform better than another in identical circumstances? We both know they do.
I fully understand your point that it is a small and not very scientific trial, but this form of enrichment is well known in marine botany and does seem worth (from my point of view) having a close look at-it seems so much more efficient than blowing co2 gas into a heavily ventilated growing area!
Re the PH question I can only make a very careful mix,and list the ingredients and maybe we can spot the answer, there are quite a few odds and ends like Cannazym etc. I may test after each component is added to see if i can pinpoint it
 
Al B. Fuct

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
psyclone said:
Did you notice the plant mass increase? one plant gained 3grams (nonco2) the co2 root fed plant gained 86grams.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but would it effect an increase in bud mass or the mass of some other part of the plant if used with cannabis? Buds are mainly leaves and modified leaves in the form of empty seed bracts. If CO2 enriching the roots causes smaller leaves, it may not suit our purposes.

it seems so much more efficient than blowing co2 gas into a heavily ventilated growing area!
Click to expand...
Ops set up for CO2 are not heavily ventilated. They usually are sealed or have minimal exhaust facilities; temp & humidity control are by air conditioning.
 
psyclone

psyclone

Well-Known Member
More small, dense, tightly packed leaves could account for some of it, with an allied growth in root density, in my experience the two often go together. perhaps also more effective water uptake. It would be more interesting and relevant if the material had been dried before weighing it up.
I mixed soup for my ladies today, and it PHed at 6.2 all in, so the co2 and pot chlor tabs must be quite alkaline, I will let you know saturday.
Have a good weekend.
 
Beaters

Beaters

Active Member
Oddly enough, I'm familiar with KClO3 from other applications. I would think that in this application it would be problematic. It isn't very soluble, and the chlorate ion (ClO3-) decomposes in a complex manner. One of the intermediates would be hypochlorite (bleach). Ideally one would wind up with KCl and O2 as the final decomposition products. But it wouldn't be that simple. Add CO2 into the equation and things can get complex, with carbonates and/or bicarbonates resulting (alkalinity).

Were I shooting for oxygen release I'd stick with hydrogen peroxide, judiciously applied. That is a way simpler decomposition reaction with oxygen released and water being released. One would want to be sure that pure hydrogen peroxide solution is being used, and not something with stabilizers or other additives.
 
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