PHing water/nutes

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Mobileaudio25

Active Member
I'm about to purchase my first ph meter but I have a few questions.

Can you ph water, mix in nutes and adjust ph to desired level then record how much nute/ph up/down was used and rely on this each time instead of using your ph meter each feeding? I will be using a ro filtration system so my water should be 7.0 consistently correct? This is also for soil not hydroponics. Thanks. Obviously every couple of feeding/waterings pen will be re calibrated and recheck the ph. Thanks
 
GrowinDad

GrowinDad

Well-Known Member
You only need to ph the final luquid going into the plants. So when using nutes, add them first and then ph.

You will get a feel for how you need to adjust and will to decide for yourself if you are comfortable not measuring anymore. But your nutes change throughout the grow so keep that in mind.
 
dubcoastOGs

dubcoastOGs

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't worry about your PH. I know.. crazy right.

Your RO won't necessarily give you 7ph. Mine comes out around 8. However, Because the tds is sooo low, <15ppm. It takes almost nothing to change the ph. So when you add your nutes. Your ph will most likely drop quite a bit. probably down past 6.

With soil, (generally) the biology of the soil keeps the ph in check. There's too much info on it, and I've typed it too many times to spew it out again. But if you do some searches, I think you'll find that the combination of good living dirt, RO water, decent nutes, and some calmag to supplement Ca or Mg will leave your dirt healthy, plants happy, and brain - higher.
 
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Mobileaudio25

Active Member
Ok that doesn't sound too bad. I will most likely let my soil nutes take care of veg since I do not veg very long and just adjust for flowering.

I've also noticed that some brands use a storage solution and cleaner while others do not. Are these needed for every device ?
 
dubcoastOGs

dubcoastOGs

Well-Known Member
meh. I have the yellow makita PH meter. It was super cheap. and seems to work okay... I don't need some fancy $100 meter just to check ph, psshhhh.

I dropped mine in water the other day. fully submerged. it wouldn't turn off. and the display got all twisted. I let it dry by my exhaust for a day or two, and it works great again.

That being said, it's nice to have the calibration solution. But calibrating it all the time will make you go crazy IMO. I really only use my meter when I'm getting some water ready for cloning. Or maybe checking runoff ph towards the end of flowering.

What kind of dirt are you in anyways?

I store mine with it's lid on. That's about it. haha. Maybe in a lab it matters. Maybe it doesn't.

Forget about the constant complaints of hydro folk and their sliding ph. Keep your dirt happy, and it'll take care of the rest.
 
Silky Shagsalot

Silky Shagsalot

Well-Known Member
anyone that tells you ph is not important is either lying to you, or their-self, lol. weather you amend for it, or adjust, you have to do something. if the ph isn't right, the plants can't properly eat. i have seen some nutes that need no adjusting, but have never tried them. in soil, a lot of folks use dolomite lime.
 
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Mobileaudio25

Active Member
I'm currently doing clones in happy frog for 2 weeks, transplanting into ocean forest for veg. Not adding any nutes during veg, flushing soil then switching into flower and adding bloom nutes. All soil will be cut with perlite as well. Does this sound like a solid plan?
 
dubcoastOGs

dubcoastOGs

Well-Known Member
Silky Shagsalot said:
anyone that tells you ph is not important is either lying to you, or their-self, lol. weather you amend for it, or adjust, you have to do something. if the ph isn't right, the plants can't properly eat. i have seen some nutes that need no adjusting, but have never tried them. in soil, a lot of folks use dolomite lime.
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the microbiology of the dirt keeps the ph in check.

it's just science.

OMG! IT'S ALLIIIVEEE!!!

kill your dirt, fuck up your ph.
 
dubcoastOGs

dubcoastOGs

Well-Known Member
Mobileaudio25 said:
I'm currently doing clones in happy frog for 2 weeks, transplanting into ocean forest for veg. Not adding any nutes during veg, flushing soil then switching into flower and adding bloom nutes. All soil will be cut with perlite as well. Does this sound like a solid plan?
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I've used ocean forest for the last decade. I recently switched to roots organics. I don't bother anymore with mixing my own, and have found the rootsO to be top notch. Anyways, because OceanF is peat based, It has the possibility to drop. Most people report it towards the end of flowering. you could mix a little dolomite lime into your soil now, or topdress it later. I never worried about it.

A little perlite won't hurt. I like to use a layer at the bottom, to lift the dirt a bit. The oceanF dirt could use a little extra. I haven't needed it with the rootsO.

as far as adding nutes go, a gameplan might not hurt, but probably won't help. learn to read what your plants need by the color of their leaves, stems, the direction they're facing, curling, etc, etc.

btw, people often mistake ph problems for Mg deficiencies when using RO water. you will need to supplement Ca and Mg if using RO water.

and I wouldnt bother with flushing when you flip. Maybe another transplant if it's needed, but you want that remaining nitrogen to stick around for a bit into flowering. But they should be fading to yellow if not completely yellow when you harvest. IMO.
 
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Mobileaudio25

Active Member
That was a really good response . Thank you . As an earlier reader stated soil growers use dolamite like. I'm going to add this to my medium as well and I believe this will fix a few of the suggestions you suggested. Thanks
 
Dannoo93

Dannoo93

Well-Known Member
Never ph my nutes water to much trouble and my ph meter just broke so ya ive never actually needed it...imho adding all the ph up/down chem to the water isnt probably good

Dannoo93
 
GrowinDad

GrowinDad

Well-Known Member
I do add about 2T of dolomite lime per gallon of my soil mix. I use filtered tap water and there is no doubt that the health of my plants improved dramatically when I became religioys about ph. But likely diff with RO.

So far as living soil, wouldn't that depend on whether you are using organics vs synthetic (I think that's the term) nutes? My understanding is that if using something like dynagro, what I use, you are not really dealing with living soil...
 
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Mobileaudio25

Active Member
This is my second grow and last grow I had done was never phed at all. I'm just looking for improvements and I believe this is something I should be tendering too more. Current indoor grow isn't terrible, I'll think I'll achieve 1-2 per plant, but I'm looking to get around 2.5-3.5 and I believe this could help me achieve that. Some mistakes were definitely made on my first indoor grow.
 
dubcoastOGs

dubcoastOGs

Well-Known Member
your kinda on your own with synthetics. But remember there is still bacteria in the soil, and anerobic conditions will fuck your shit good regardless.

and if using synthetics, why are you in soil? I thought most synthetic growers were using soiless mixes or straight hydro.

btw, were you using calmag last grow? You really need to with RO water. You'll see huge improvements with it.


I could give my plants water ph'd to 3 or 10. The runoff is gonna be 6.8. I stopped checking it or even bothering it.
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
Most potting soils already come with some amount of calcitic or dolomitic limestone mixed in, although adding another tablespoon or two shouldn't hurt and is wise if you don't plan to transplant again. Lime neutralizes acidity in soil over time, and saturates the exchange sites on soil particles with base cations (Ca and Mg are base cations).

A healthy soil wont/shouldn't have a homogenous pH throughout, if you ask me. Whenever you go and check the pH of soil, all you are really getting is a ball-park figure. Just because the pH pen says 6.3 doesn't mean that is what it is in other parts of the rhizosphere (could be 6, could be 6.5). Microbes and the plant itself both influence the pH of the soil solution. pH changes occur as the plant absorbs nutrients. For example, when plants take up nitrogen in the form of ammonia, the hydrogen ion concentration increases and pH can plummet before rebounding (as the H+ reacts with hydroxide ions, water is formed and pH increases some).

Additionally, soil largely resists sudden changes in pH on account of its Cation exchange capacity/buffering capacity. So a properly limed soil will keep neutralizing acids and should resist pH swings for quite some time. The key is not to mess with it in the first place; just don't use any pH up from the start.

The other thing is that soil contains earthworm castings, compost or some form of humus and some are fortified with leonardate/lignite or humates. The soil therefore contains humic/fulvic acids, which are complex organic compounds with assist plants in assimilating and transporting nutrients. Humic/fulvic acids and other chelating agents/sequestrants solubilize minerals which would otherwise not be plant available (due to pH for example). Various microbes also directly/indirectly acquire, retain and release plant available nutrients.
 
M

Mobileaudio25

Active Member
Nullis said:
Most potting soils already come with some amount of calcitic or dolomitic limestone mixed in, although adding another tablespoon or two shouldn't hurt and is wise if you don't plan to transplant again. Lime neutralizes acidity in soil over time, and saturates the exchange sites on soil particles with base cations (Ca and Mg are base cations).

A healthy soil wont/shouldn't have a homogenous pH throughout, if you ask me. Whenever you go and check the pH of soil, all you are really getting is a ball-park figure. Just because the pH pen says 6.3 doesn't mean that is what it is in other parts of the rhizosphere (could be 6, could be 6.5). Microbes and the plant itself both influence the pH of the soil solution. pH changes occur as the plant absorbs nutrients. For example, when plants take up nitrogen in the form of ammonia, the hydrogen ion concentration increases and pH can plummet before rebounding (as the H+ reacts with hydroxide ions, water is formed and pH increases some).

Additionally, soil largely resists sudden changes in pH on account of its Cation exchange capacity/buffering capacity. So a properly limed soil will keep neutralizing acids and should resist pH swings for quite some time. The key is not to mess with it in the first place; just don't use any pH up from the start.

The other thing is that soil contains earthworm castings, compost or some form of humus and some are fortified with leonardate/lignite or humates. The soil therefore contains humic/fulvic acids, which are complex organic compounds with assist plants in assimilating and transporting nutrients. Humic/fulvic acids and other chelating agents/sequestrants solubilize minerals which would otherwise not be plant available (due to pH for example). Various microbes also directly/indirectly acquire, retain and release plant available nutrients.
Click to expand...
Very interesting read. I'm pretty much 100% sure I'm going to be adding the dolomite lime into soils asap. I haven't had a big ph problem, but I'm looking at ways to prevent it and this looks like the perfect additive.
 
Silky Shagsalot

Silky Shagsalot

Well-Known Member
nice post nullis. i see a lot of people chasing ph, especially in soil simply because their run-off ph isn't what they think it should be. i'm usually in coco, but never check my run-off. ph'll never be the same coming out what it is going in (for long,lol.) too many variables/changes going on in the medium. i ph everything i put in/on my plants. unless i see issues with my plants, i don't fret about ph.
 
M

MedicatedGrow

Active Member
I'm on the "Pssh PH whats that?" side.

I used a PH meter for my first grow, didn't really see any difference without a PH meter my second grow (Never used PH up or down on second grow) and they came out better than my first. In fact my first grow died halfway into flower. Can't blame it on messing with PH but PH just made things more complicated for me. Now nearly 10 grows later with no PH checking my grows have been getting better and better. PH checking is for Aero/Hydro users, I'm a FFOF or Coco Coir guy and haven't had an issue yet.
 
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