Plant problem

Hi all, first post in this section. I have this issue with one particular plant. I have 3 of this same stain (Durban Poison) growing from seed, but only this one plant is exhibiting this issue. I initially started my RDWC grow using my well water, which killed a few plants and strained these three for sure, so there is a history of nute toxicity/deficiencies with these seedlings.

Now however for the last couple of weeks I have been running RO water, and I started at about 350PPM (.7EC) to leach them out for about 10 days. Now I'm at ~850 PPM (1.7EC) and all the other plants seem to be doing well again, including this one, except it has this weird chlorosis issue.. I'm going to flip them to 12/12 in a couple of weeks and want them healthy before I do. I've searched everywhere for something like this, the closest pictures seem to be Thrip damage, but as this occurs on even the new growth and no other plants are affected (I have 20) I doubt it is an insect issue. I also don't physically see anything on any of the plants, and no damage to other plants which is why I suspect it is either a virus/fungus/nute issue.

Anyways I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before. Notice on the second newest set of 5 leaves how the leaf has a kind of chlorosis from the edge to the center. Like the dark green chlorophyll is being eaten away. All the growth seems to exhibit it except the cotyledons, although it is kind of hard to see any damage on the emerging leaves. Also note that both of those second newest set of 5 leaf leaves also has the middle leaf canoeing and cupping down, not your standard nitrogen cupping from what I can see, no clawing at the end.

I've searched all over to see what could be doing this...no luck finding anything that I could associate it with. Grow temps are good, I'm venting, water temps are 70, roots are white and clean, no other plants have this issue?

i'd veg those longer if I could, they look good to me

chemphlegm said:

i'd veg those longer if I could, they look good to me

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I would but my Canadian permission slip from the government for my friend runs out before summer proper. So I'd be over my plant count. Another 20 days is all I can do, which should be tons of time in RDWC. But if you look close at the 5-leaf set that popped out of the plant you can see the chlorosis I mean. Also note the one retarded leaf in comparision to the other (5-leaf top of pic). Hopefully more veg time will work out whatever this is...

your nutrients are screwy, you likely find relief with some cal/mag, quality nutrients, clear feeding chart.

That's what I have them on now, for the last 3 weeks. I know these plants were exposed early in their seedling lives to hard (1.8EC), hard well water that was mostly CACO3 and so they had some toxicity/defs as a result.

I have 6 plants on each res (x2), they all share the same nutes and only this one is showing this weird issue. I though maybe it was damaged by the stress of its early life, but I'm hoping whatever damage was done isn't permanent. I guess waiting and watching new growth is all I can do for this plant now that I have proper RO water (I also use calimagic and GH flora series, non-lucas). I don't really know what was in the well water, could be some heavy metal damage?

general hydroponics
per gallon
bloom full strength
6 mls grow
3mls micro
6mls grow
4mls calmag

veg full strength
7.5 mls grow
5mls micro
2.5 mls bloom
3mls calmag
1/4 tsp Epsom salt

always mix it the same
for a lower EC mix it the same with slightly more water
for a higher EC mix it the same with slightly less water

id run that plant at about EC 0.8 of bloom
to me it looks like to much N


manage your reservoir with these rules

EC goes up or Ph goes down lower nutes

EC goes down and PH goes up raise nutes

never feed more than EC 1.5 for any reason

im4satori said:

general hydroponics
per gallon
bloom full strength
6 mls grow
3mls micro
6mls grow
4mls calmag

veg full strength
7.5 mls grow
5mls micro
2.5 mls bloom
3mls calmag
1/4 tsp Epsom salt

always mix it the same
for a lower EC mix it the same with slightly more water
for a higher EC mix it the same with slightly less water

id run that plant at about EC 0.8 of bloom
to me it looks like to much N


manage your reservoir with these rules

EC goes up or Ph goes down lower nutes

EC goes down and PH goes up raise nutes

never feed more than EC 1.5 for any reason

Click to expand...

Thanks for the recs on the nutes.

For Veg I see you recommend 3:2:1 grow:micro:bloom that's the exact ratio I settled on. So keep the ratio and lower the EC, that sounds like solid advice. The feed charts from GH for simple recirc say 4:3:1 for full strength veg (and EC 1.8-2.2). That plus the calimagic made the EC way too high! (I have always used DNF nutes, never GH before). I settled on using the calimagic first to get an EC of about 0.2-0.3 then use the ratio you describe +/- water to get the overall PPM/EC I want. I think that is the correct approach with RO water, but I'm open to learn if it isn't, I used to have beautiful city tap water and none of these problems in RDWC.

Also for bloom formula I notice you have 6ml grow twice, I guess one of those is meant to be bloom?

HerbalRelief said:

Thanks for the recs on the nutes.

For Veg I see you recommend 3:2:1 grow:micro:bloom that's the exact ratio I settled on. So keep the ratio and lower the EC, that sounds like solid advice. The feed charts from GH for simple recirc say 4:3:1 for full strength veg (and EC 1.8-2.2). That plus the calimagic made the EC way too high! (I have always used DNF nutes, never GH before). I settled on using the calimagic first to get an EC of about 0.2-0.3 then use the ratio you describe +/- water to get the overall PPM/EC I want. I think that is the correct approach with RO water, but I'm open to learn if it isn't, I used to have beautiful city tap water and none of these problems in RDWC.

Also for bloom formula I notice you have 6ml grow twice, I guess one of those is meant to be bloom?

Click to expand...

the ratio between potassium and calcium and magnesium is important
the amount or ratios of calmag and Epsom salt in relation to the potaasium in the base nutes are balanced in this arrangement

youll need to find what EC works best for you but I never recommend more than EC 1.5 max under any circumstance ( personally I don't run over EC1.2 ) but everyones a little different

yes..im sorry I meant bloom
the bloom formula is set so that the kool bloom is not needed

im4satori said:

the ratio between potassium and calcium and magnesium is important
the amount or ratios of calmag and Epsom salt in relation to the potaasium in the base nutes are balanced in this arrangement

youll need to find what EC works best for you but I never recommend more than EC 1.5 max under any circumstance ( personally I don't run over EC1.2 ) but everyones a little different

yes..im sorry I meant bloom
the bloom formula is set so that the kool bloom is not needed

Click to expand...

I have never used Epsom salts before. My GF has some from Walmart next to the bath. Is that the same stuff? I'd hate to use some sodium salts that killed everything.

Thanks,
HerbR

HerbalRelief said:

I have never used Epsom salts before. My GF has some from Walmart next to the bath. Is that the same stuff? I'd hate to use some sodium salts that killed everything.

Thanks,
HerbR

Click to expand...

I should mention also that I am running a sterile res, calcium hypo. That might change the chemistry so thought I should mention it.

HerbR

what is calcium hypo?

don't use it if its fancy and has perfumes or if its a salt blend

it needs to be just Epsom salt aka magnesium sulfate...

im4satori said:

what is calcium hypo?

don't use it if its fancy and has perfumes or if its a salt blend

it needs to be just Epsom salt aka magnesium sulfate...

Click to expand...

calcium hypochlorite i.e. Chlorine...sterile res.

HerbalRelief said:

I have never used Epsom salts before. My GF has some from Walmart next to the bath. Is that the same stuff? I'd hate to use some sodium salts that killed everything.

Thanks,
HerbR

Click to expand...

Since Epsom salt is a pure mineral compound of magnesium sulfate in crystal form, it looks an awful lot like salt, but it has no sodium chloride. Sodium chloride is salt. Salt is sodium chloride. basal salt is NOT sodium salt

if you need magnesium, buy some quality plant nutrients, they're in there.

chemphlegm said:

Since Epsom salt is a pure mineral compound of magnesium sulfate in crystal form, it looks an awful lot like salt, but it has no sodium chloride. Sodium chloride is salt. Salt is sodium chloride. basal salt is NOT sodium salt

if you need magnesium, buy some quality plant nutrients, they're in there.

Click to expand...

Thanks, since lowering the nutes to 0.8 EC the new growth has come out normal. Phew. I am in agreement with im4satori that this was nitrogen toxicity, I think. I used some root excelurator from kelp that contained only nitrogen, but that plus the fact my nutes were too high. GH nutes with cannabis is a bit of a learning curve compared to Dutch Nutrient. Especially since if you use it per the recirculating feed charts you will kill your plants. It could be I have a very highly oxygenated res/bucket system so I need less.

I also found this feed schedule for GH for Cannabis. Now I am not sure which is better to use - im4satori's or this one..

http://www.growweedeasy.com/sites/g...eed-General-Hydroponics-nutrient-schedule.pdf

chemphlegm said:

Since Epsom salt is a pure mineral compound of magnesium sulfate in crystal form, it looks an awful lot like salt, but it has no sodium chloride. Sodium chloride is salt. Salt is sodium chloride. basal salt is NOT sodium salt

if you need magnesium, buy some quality plant nutrients, they're in there.

Click to expand...

magnesium sulfate is a plant nutrient and most formulas are lacking
pot is a magnesium hog compared to other plants and most fertilizers don't have enough for the mj plants needs

magnesium def or lock out is the most common of all nutrient disorders

about salt
but I would like to clarify

the word "salt" alone doesn't refer to table salt specifically

we call our table salt "salt" but in fact the word salt refers to many many salt fertilizers or salt minerals... or even multi vitmans

so more accurately salt is a vague term appropriately describing salt minerals of many types

therefore magnesium sulfate is a salt (aka epsom salt)
but not the general term describing table salt or sodium chloride

im4satori said:

magnesium sulfate is a plant nutrient and most formulas are lacking
pot is a magnesium hog compared to other plants and most fertilizers don't have enough for the mj plants needs

magnesium def or lock out is the most common of all nutrient disorders

about salt
but I would like to clarify

the word "salt" alone doesn't refer to table salt specifically

we call our table salt "salt" but in fact the word salt refers to many many salt fertilizers

so more accurately salt is a vague term appropriately describing salt minerals of many types

therefore magnesium sulfate is a salt (aka epsom salt)
but not the general term describing table salt or sodium chloride

Click to expand...

alll ferts are salts right....it''s just the combo that we are all after!

HerbalRelief said:

http://www.growweedeasy.com/sites/g...eed-General-Hydroponics-nutrient-schedule.pdf

Click to expand...

its not bad

I don't see why you couldn't get good results with it

the veg is a little light on magnesium and could use some Epsom salt
it does have the correct amount of calcium

the bloom formulas has enough magnesium and wouldn't need Epsom salt and
the calcium to magnesium ratios look good
but in my opinion its a little light on K

but that's just me being picky... all in all its very close

the mix/ratio I recommend is better (imho)

im4satori said:

its not bad

I don't see why you couldn't get good results with it

the veg is a little light on magnesium and could use some Epsom salt and the correct amount of calcium

the bloom formulas has enough magnesium and wouldn't need Epsom salt and
the calcium to magnesium ratios look good
but in my opinion its a little light on K

but that's just me being picky... all in all its very close

the mix/ratio I recommend is better (imho)

Click to expand...

In Time I will try them all. Then I will either praise or condemn you. I kind of think you are recommending really good things, but for the production results that must happen for me and my friend who are both in pain, we will try 1:1:1 like the chart for dummies suggests. After I the government gets its shit together I will try some other stuff.

You have been really helpful. Thanks.