Please help me identify this issue!

Please help me identify this issue.

Dutch Passion Blueberry. Day 40 flowering.

In a 3x3x5.5' tent with 3 other Mataro Blues. 400w HPS. The mataros are also having issues (but more so yellowing of the fan leaves, then curling up and falling off - will post those in a separate thread).

Temps range from 19 C (lights off) to 26 C (lights on) / humidity 40-50%.

10 gallon pot. Promix. There is not much space in the tent at all, they are all growing closely together.

Watering with tap water when they are thirsty (when my soil moisture meter reads halfway at "moist" or is in the "dry" zone, I water at least once every 3-7 days). I water with anywhere from half a gallon to 1 gallon. The pH of the tap water is 7.5.

I was alternating water/feed days. When I feed I am giving full strength nutrients of Green Planet Medi-One, Massive Bloom, CalMagic, and Liquid W8.

I stopped feeding a week ago and gave each plant a very minor "flush" with 2 gallons each of water. I measured the pH and PPM of the runoff. Aside from this 2 gallon watering, none of the plants have had any runoff at all so I am wondering if nute buildup is causing lockout due to incorrect soil pH?

Blueberry runoff ppm was 250 and pH was 6.4.

Soil is still moist/wet from the 2 gallon watering exactly 7 days ago.

Might be over watering should be completely dry when watered,doesnt look like nitro burn but looks like you may be pushing it.

Thanks a lot for your response. I appreciate it. I am also thinking that it could be an embarrassing over-watering issue.

I will let the soil dry out completely before watering/feeding again.....

Anything else I can be doing to help this lady along?

I would find out what pH promix wants and adjusted it to that for best results, good luck

indicas4me said:

Might be over watering should be completely dry when watered,doesnt look like nitro burn but looks like you may be pushing it.

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You dont want it to dry out if it is peat base like promix. Peat will become hydrophobic.

Falco & Ness said:

Please help me identify this issue.

Dutch Passion Blueberry. Day 40 flowering.

In a 3x3x5.5' tent with 3 other Mataro Blues. 400w HPS. The mataros are also having issues (but more so yellowing of the fan leaves, then curling up and falling off - will post those in a separate thread).

Temps range from 19 C (lights off) to 26 C (lights on) / humidity 40-50%.

10 gallon pot. Promix. There is not much space in the tent at all, they are all growing closely together.

Watering with tap water when they are thirsty (when my soil moisture meter reads halfway at "moist" or is in the "dry" zone, I water at least once every 3-7 days). I water with anywhere from half a gallon to 1 gallon. The pH of the tap water is 7.5.

I was alternating water/feed days. When I feed I am giving full strength nutrients of Green Planet Medi-One, Massive Bloom, CalMagic, and Liquid W8.

I stopped feeding a week ago and gave each plant a very minor "flush" with 2 gallons each of water. I measured the pH and PPM of the runoff. Aside from this 2 gallon watering, none of the plants have had any runoff at all so I am wondering if nute buildup is causing lockout due to incorrect soil pH?

Blueberry runoff ppm was 250 and pH was 6.4.

Soil is still moist/wet from the 2 gallon watering exactly 7 days ago.

View attachment 4303324 View attachment 4303326 View attachment 4303328 View attachment 4303332

Click to expand...

Ditch the moisture meter and water more. I wpuld be willing to bet the soil has dry spots.

Beachwalker said:

I would find out what pH promix wants and adjusted it to that for best results, good luck

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Thank you beachwalker. My findings is that soil generally likes 6.5 but for max K absorption could lean closer to 6.3-6.4. I hope Promix Mycoorhizae likes the same.

whitebb2727 said:

You dont want it to dry out if it is peat base like promix. Peat will become hydrophobic.


Ditch the moisture meter and water more. I wpuld be willing to bet the soil has dry spots.

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Thank you White. This is deeply insightful. I should have done more research on my medium! Outdoor grower entering the Great Indoors here

This is my medium: https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/products/pro-mix-hp-mycorrhizae/

The moisture meter is not very reliable. I will resume watering tomorrow at lights on and water more frequently. I'm thinking 1.5 gallons to start

Falco & Ness said:

Thank you beachwalker. My findings is that soil generally likes 6.5 but for max K absorption could lean closer to 6.3-6.4. I hope Promix Mycoorhizae likes the same.

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Yes I noticed you said you're using 7.5 and while I'm not familiar with that particular medium I did recognize it was high good luck

Now you say you got runoff off of a peat based mix and got 250? I’m not well versed in ec or tds. I don’t do that shit neither do i ph my tap water but it seems low doesn’t it?

crimsonecho said:

Now you say you got runoff off of a peat based mix and got 250? I’m not well versed in ec or tds. I don’t do that shit neither do i ph my tap water but it seems low doesn’t it?

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Yeah nor am I well versed in those metrics.....but it does seem low compared to what I've seen. My mataros were all clocking in between 500-800ppm...and then the Blueberry was 250.

So maybe she needs to drink AND eat more.

Falco & Ness said:

Yeah nor am I well versed in those metrics.....but it does seem low compared to what I've seen. My mataros were all clocking in between 500-800ppm...and then the Blueberry was 250.

So maybe she needs to drink AND eat more.

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Don’t know my blueberries were pretty good eaters. Its hard to tell from the pictures but may need to be fed a little more.

Here is an up close of two fan leaves exhibiting issues, if that helps further with diagnosis;

Blueberry



Mataro Blue

Falco & Ness said:

Thank you White. This is deeply insightful. I should have done more research on my medium! Outdoor grower entering the Great Indoors here

This is my medium: https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/products/pro-mix-hp-mycorrhizae/

The moisture meter is not very reliable. I will resume watering tomorrow at lights on and water more frequently. I'm thinking 1.5 gallons to start

Click to expand...

Water in stages. Water lightly and then again in about 10 minutes. It helps.

crimsonecho said:

Don’t know my blueberries were pretty good eaters. Its hard to tell from the pictures but may need to be fed a little more.

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Yeah that's what I had heard that they like to eat...impossible to take good pictures in that jungle, just looks like one massive plant all growing together. Going to up the food.

whitebb2727 said:

Water in stages. Water lightly and then again in about 10 minutes. It helps.

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Sound advice especially if there are dry spots. I will water more gradually instead of just dumping it all on over a span of a minute.

I’m just a very shitty diagnostician. I think it kinda looks like potassium with nitrogen in the second picture. But its just a guess at this point.

crimsonecho said:

I’m just a very shitty diagnostician. I think it kinda looks like potassium with nitrogen in the second picture. But its just a guess at this point.

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New Developments: After today's watering/feeding, I got some more runoff. Used 1.5 gallons per plant. 0.5 gallons of pure water to start slowly and gradually. Then fed an additional gallon of food. Water/Food combo was ~1300ppm, 6.3 pH before application.

Looks like I fucked up my ppm reading. The digital units are so small to read! The blueberry with the aforementioned issues...is clocking in at 1900ppm and 6.5 pH in the runoff (not 250, there was a little x10 symbol I did not notice). I've also noticed that the water is running through the pot really fast now...I'm wondering if the promix did become hydrophobic and is now repelling the water...

Other Runoff Readings:
Mataro with the yellowing issue (above) is clocking in at 800ppm, 6.4pH.
Mataro #2 is at 1700ppm, 5.9 pH.
Mataro #3 is at 750ppm, 5.9 pH.

Photos of run-off content (notice the Blueberry in the back right - this runoff was accumulated from 1.5 gallons in a 10 gallon pot after only 1-2 hours of drainage):

Well, i really don’t know what to say. I don’t use ppm to feed. Its just that runoff cannot give a reliable reading on how much to feed i think. Not without knowing the actual nutrient content of the runoff at least.

As for water running thru too fast, happen with plastic pots. When they start getting rootbound i think the roots creates tiny gaps between the pot and the mix and the water just runs thru. I use a tray to water them. Just flood the tray and let the pot wick it up. Don’t leave water in the tray tho.

I’m just going to throw this out there, your mix at this point should be pretty clean. You flushed it, you haven’t been feeding for more then a week. So i lean towards a deficiency. Nitrogen for the yellowing leaf and potassium for both. But again i’m a an amended soil kinda grower, so don’t know much about bottles. All i know is when i have these symptoms i just top dress with ewc and move on.

Thanks Crimson for the advice. Mix should be clean, but aside from Mataro #1 (she's massive) it isn't. By the way I checked out your grow journal....beautiful!

Been diagnosticating a lot more - next time around I am definitely going to try the amended soil method Crimson!! I'm learning a lot and learning to appreciate the intricacies of indoor growing and mimicking an ideal growth environment...

The blackening/curling of the leaves has been progressing upwards up the Blueberry plant. It has also started to show on Mataro #3.

I have narrowed in on a few issues.

1) Need to hand-water less quickly and more evenly to prevent any dry spots.

2) PPM and pH readings in the runoffs are leading me to believe that there is some lockout happening and that the roots at the bottom of the pot are not absorbing nutrients at the same rate as the roots near the middle and top of the pot.

3) Plants are growing too closely together in too tight a space. Stupid to put 4 plants in 10 gallon pots in a 3x3x6.5' tent. They stretched like crazy, and they are growing all intertwined. It's a jungle in there. The top canopy is looking decent, resin production seems to be going well (mataros maturing faster than the blueberry, however) but the under canopy does not get enough light penetration (tiny popcorn buds, weak branches, slow growth)...

Based on the help received here and my findings;

- Blueberry #1 (below) needs to be flushed again to get rid of the salt buildup near the bottom of the pot. The leaves are not showing too many signs of a nutrient deficiency to the best of my knowledge...



And, the bottom of the Blueberry;




- Mataro #1 (below) wants to be watered and fed more, and more frequently. Drinks quickly and appears to need more food based off yellowing/dying fan leaves.



- Mataro #2 (below) needs to be flushed again. There is a salt buildup around the roots. It doesn't need any more food for at least a week, and pH needs to be increased from 5.9 to 6.4 to allow for nutrient uptake. It may have a nutrient abundance issue..



- Mataro #3 (below) needs to be flushed again to try to increase the pH of the soil. It is at 5.9 and I want it near 6.4-6.5. Seems to like the amount of food it is getting. Not sure on the rust spotting issue on this particular fan leaf, I've read it could be variety of things...



Will update here as the situation progresses! Excited to share the harvest with ya'll - and even more excited for the next indoor grow.

My two cents...

Too big of pots...
Too much water...(for the love of God, don't flush anymore...this is not the correct way to fix your issues)
Lack of light at the bottom of the canopy...(lollipop your girls and clean out all that larf...the top flowers will thank you later)
The rust spots most likely indicate a Ca issue...

You're nearly 6 weeks into the deal now...slow and steady wins this race. Don't get excited and start throwing the kitchen sink at these things; you're not that far off. Bring them back to some normalcy. Regular feeds in a regular pattern. Quit chasing your tail with the flushes and the runoff checks. Know what you're putting in, what you started with, be sure of your feed / water pH and the rest will take care of itself. Good luck.