Poll: What Would You Do In This Situation?

When "doing nothing becomes the norm", I'm interested to see what other RUIer's would do in this situation.

At the end of this page; I've included links to several accounts of this story, so you get the facts straight.

Read up and then vote your conscience.


From The Christian Science Monitor

"Homecoming rape:

When do bystanders become accomplices?

"San Francisco - The case of a 15-year-old girl who was raped outside her high school homecoming dance last weekend is likely to raise legal questions about who was merely a witness and who was an accomplice.

Four teenagers were arraigned in Richmond, Calif., Thursday. Three of the suspects are juveniles, and one is a 19-year-old man. All have been charged as adults. A 21-year-old man has also been arrested but not officially charged in the rape.

The assault has shocked Bay Area residents not only because as many as two dozen people apparently witnessed it but because the attack went on for more than two hours without anyone reporting or stopping it.
A former Richmond High School student, who heard about the rape secondhand, eventually alerted Richmond Police, who expect to make more arrests in the case.

Some experts have attributed the witness inaction to the so-called bystander effect, which posits that witnesses are less likely to intervene if other bystanders aren't stepping in to stop the crime.

Drew Carberry of the National Council on Crime Prevention told CNN: "If you are in a crowd and you look and see that everyone is doing nothing, then doing nothing becomes the norm."

Early reports indicate that some bystanders recorded the rape on cellphones and others cheered. If that's correct, those individuals could be charged as accomplices under California law even if they didn't physically assault the victim.

Accomplice liability is applicable to someone who aides and abets a crime, says Kara Dansky, executive director at the Stanford Criminal Justice Center. If a bystander verbally encouraged a crime, they can face the same level of punishment as those who actually carry it out, she says.

For his part, Richmond Police Lt. Mark Gagen told CNN that police "do not have the ability to arrest people who witnessed the crime and did nothing.... The law can be very rigid. We don't have the authority to make an arrest."
But Professor Dansky suspects the question of accomplice liability will become a key issue in the prosecution's case.

Answering the question of what amounts to aiding and abetting, however, will require "intensive fact investigation on the part of the police and difficult line-drawing on the part of the prosecutors," she notes on her blog."

CNN: Friend of gang rape victim blasts school officials over safety

CNN covers the story from a, "it's a police issue", while ignoring the social implications.

One news organization (unnamed) blames poor lighting in the area, as the cause.

CBS Will Richmond High Gang Rape Gawkers Go Free?

USA Today Police arrest 5 in 2-hour gang-rape of teen outside homecoming dance

It seems NBC and FOX were too busy diverting attention to their political feud, to accurately cover the story.

I've never let a crowd of gawking bystanders get in the way of helping someone in trouble.
Every person there who did nothing to help should be ashamed of what they have become.
If people don't stand up for the victims, who will be left to stand up for them when they are victimized.

Green Cross, I can't take you seriously with that avatar lol, You can say the same of mine but I'm sure for a totally separate reason. I hope it's there for jest and not on some notion of seriousness.

I put that I would call 911 and then go risk my own ass to help out. That's actually not true. I would just go kick the guy in the head a few times, then throw some clothes on the girl or what ever. After that I would call the cops. I'm sure the asshole would probably sue me and it'd be a bunch of bs but to me it would be worth it.

DJBoxhouse said:

Green Cross, I can't take you seriously with that avatar lol, You can say the same of mine but I'm sure for a totally separate reason. I hope it's there for jest and not on some notion of seriousness.

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I'd probably risk my own ass first.I have a problem with rage.I probably wouldn't even think about 911 until after I had beaten several of those guys with a stick.And a few of the bystanders.I think my main thing would be to make them stop hurting her.I have two girls,and the thought of anything like this happening always makes me think of how the parents must be feeling,because as parents you tend to try to blame yourself."Oh, I shouldn't have let her go to the dance,etc."

it is a disgrace, honestly... it makes me think of when i would go to the ghetto to buy drugs... the dealers sit on corners all day and night and the people who live there turn their backs on it as they fear retribution and that it isn't "cool" to be a rat in the hood.. but a few times a cop would roll up right as i was making my purchase and these same people who sit there and say nothing about dealers in front of there houses all day would turn to the cop and tell them which way i took off running... and why? because they didn't know me and weren't afraid that i would later come back and shoot at their houses or whatever.. their mistakes, lol...
but really.. i have read about this before.. it is kinda like people who get abducted or kidnapped and end up having feelings for their kidnappers. like patti hearst joining the PLO after being kidnapped by them and later robbing a bank with them..
i really am fascinated by the pyschology of it all...
i would like to think that i too would jump the a holes sitting there gang raping some chic and beat the hell out of them with the same cell phones that the people were using to video tape it all... but you honestly can't answer something like this till you are put in the situation.. you wouldn't think that this would matter, but there have been tons of studies on stuff like this and time and time again if no one acts to begin with, it makes it that much harder for anyone else to come along and act... sad.. but true...

i saw the poll and put i would cheer but not join in, that was a total mistake, i didn't see what the crime was, , i hope noone sees the results and judes me for it :S ii honestly didn't realise the crime, im so sorry if any one gets the wrong impression or anything, i would actually beat the living shit out of any partisipants an bystanders eencouraging it, then help th poor girl, offer her a spliff and make good of th situation, the thought of calling the police might cross my mind at some pont XD

GRAB A FUKIN STICK OR A BRICK! and go to werk..





on every fukin 1. xcept da girl of course

Sometimes I can't believe how horrible people are. These people deserve to get raped while they're in prison, assuming they all go. I would have definately been beatin some ass too if i was there. Also can't believe that people cheered it on. Hopefully karma will get the best of these people.

I would deck the motherfuckers doing it, but i wouldn't call in those pigs...

Even though I am a female, I would call 911 and try to help the victim. It seems as though in a lot of situations similar to this one, nobody wants to be the "first" person to do anything, but once someone makes the first move, then others will also help. All of those people who just stood there should be ashamed of themselves. All of them have a mother,sister,girlfriend, and/or daughter. Wouldn't they want someone to step forward to help their loved one if they were in the same situation? Who the hell raised these kids, to where they just didn't care and watch someone be brutalized for over 2 hrs?

when i saw this on the news the other day my jaw almost hit the floor. i just dont get how people (i say people because all of thoes "kids" should be tried as adults) can act like that.

but at the same time this girl should have been smarter. i mean come on use some fucking common sense! if you see a group of older males drinking in a dark area and your a little 15 year old girl DONT GO NEAR THEM! most guys are dicks/pigs when they are drunk....even when they are not

I has something similar in a way to this happen to me and all I did was call the cops.

To this day I regret not taking the initiative to team up with several of the guys just standing around with their thumbs up their asses (that part was kind of fun to watch) waiting for the cops to arrive.

I will never forget that woman screaming.

If it was just me and several bad guys,

I would first gather a pile of stones.

Amazing poll results; considering how few people were willing to help the victim in this case, although there wasn't much participation (in this thread), and I believe the majority of those who have avoided this poll, may have done so, because they condone this behavior.

Gang rape raises questions about bystanders' role

By Stephanie Chen, CNN
October 30, 2009 2:48 p.m. EDT


"Genovese syndrome" was coined after dozens watched or heard a killer attack Kitty Genovese and did nothing.


STORY HIGHLIGHTS

• Psychologists say bystanders in large groups are less likely to take action
• Police: As many as 20 people watched gang rape spanning over two hours
• Bystanders didn't report assault to police and some participated in the attack
• Some experts argue the witnesses may have feared retaliation from the gang

(CNN) -- For more than two hours on a dark Saturday night, as many as 20 people watched or took part as a 15-year-old California girl was allegedly gang raped and beaten outside a high school homecoming dance, authorities said.
As hundreds of students gathered in the school gym, outside in a dimly lit alley where the victim was allegedly raped, police say witnesses took photos. Others laughed.

"As people announced over time that this was going on, more people came to see, and some actually participated," Lt. Mark Gagan of the Richmond Police Department told CNN.

The witnesses failed to report the crime to law enforcement, Gagan said. The victim remained hospitalized in stable condition. Police arrested five suspects and more arrests were expected.

So why didn't anyone come forward?
Criminology and psychology experts say there could be a variety of reasons why the crime wasn't reported. Several pointed to a problematic social phenomenon known as the bystander effect. It's a theory that has played out in lynchings, college riots and white-collar crimes.
Under the bystander effect, experts say that the larger the number of people involved in a situation, the less will get done.




Video: Girl gang-raped for hours

• If you are in a crowd and you look and see that everyone is doing nothing, then doing nothing becomes the norm." explains Drew Carberry, a director at the National Council on Crime Prevention.

Carberry said witnesses can be less likely to report a crime because they reinforce each other with the notion that reporting the crime isn't necessary. Or, he says, witnesses may think another person in the crowd already reported the incident. The responsibility among the group becomes diffused.

"Kids learn at a young age when they observe bullying that they would rather not get involved because there is a power structure," Carberry adds.

The phrase bystander effect was coined in the 1960s after people watched or heard a serial killer stalk and stab a woman in two separate attacks in the Queens neighborhood of New York.

Kitty Genovese struggled with the attacker on the street and in her building. She shrieked for help and was raped, robbed and murdered. When witnesses in the building were questioned by police about why they remained silent and failed to act, one man, according to the 1964 New York Times article that broke the story, answered, "I didn't want to be involved."
Though the number of people who saw or heard Genovese struggle was eventually disputed, her case still became symbolic of a kind of crowd apathy that psychologists and social scientists call the "Genovese syndrome."

"I don't propose people get involved by running over and trying to stop it," the 73-year-old brother of Kitty Genovese told CNN, referring to the California gang rape case. Instead, Vincent Genovese advocates a call to 911. "Everyone has a cell phone," he said. "There is no excuse for people not to react to a situation like that."

A similar incident took place at a New Bedford, Massachusetts, bar in 1983. Witnesses said several men threw a woman on a pool table where they raped and performed oral sex on her. Several witnesses failed to call police.

"The people in the bar didn't do anything. They just let it happen," said Richard Felson, a professor of crime, law and justice at Penn State University in University Park, Pennsylvania.
This detached mentality can be especially pervasive among youth, who are too young to comprehend what victimization means, said Salvatore Didato, an organizational psychologist in New York. When a teenager -- or anyone -- doesn't have a personal bond to the victim, they are less likely to help out.

Experts say sometimes bystanders see the victim as less important than the person committing the crime, who appears to wield power. "The victim to them is a non-person," Didato said.

But in California, it's illegal for a witnessed crime involving children to go unreported. The Sherrice Iverson Child Victim Protection Act passed in 1999 makes it a misdemeanor to fail to report a crime against a child. However, the bill only applies to victims 14 or younger. The victim in the California gang-rape case was 15.
Phil Harris, a criminal justice professor at Temple University, who has studied juveniles and group situations for nearly three decades, offered another hypothesis on why as many as 20 witnesses failed to notify police. He said the witnesses could have been angry themselves -- or had a problem with the victim.

Richmond Police Department officials said some of the witnesses in the California gang rape ended up participating in the sexual assaults.

"A lot of kids don't know how to express anger and they are curious when anger is expressed," Harris said.

Scientific studies over the last decade have shown that adolescent brain development occurs into the 20s, which makes it hard for teens to make decisions, criminologists say. In 2005, the U.S.
Supreme Court took this research into consideration when it ruled that children could not be given the death penalty.
It is still unclear the ages of the male witnesses who gathered around the victim in California and watched.

In Boston, Massachusetts, Northeastern University criminologist Jack McDevitt says he believes the California gang rape was too violent -- and lasted too long -- to be the result of the bystander effect alone.
McDevitt, who specializes in hate crime research, says the male witnesses may have kept quiet out of fear of retaliation. In his research, witnesses who live in violent communities often fear stepping forward because snitching isn't tolerated.
Snitching could also bring dangerous consequences to their friends and family.
"They don't believe the system will protect them from the offender," he said. "They think the offender will find out their name."
That may have been the case in Chicago, Illinois, in September when an honor student was beaten to death by four teenage boys outside a school. Video captured by a bystander showed several students watching the attack, but police have found many of the witnesses tight-lipped in the South side community where violence has been prevalent. Police have charged three suspects with murder.
While information from the Richmond Police Department in the coming weeks may reveal more about the bystanders and attackers, crime experts say one thing is clear: Third parties can affect the outcome of a crime. Witnesses have the power to deter violence -- or stop a crime from going on, experts say.

Bystanders could have prevented the gang rape from lasting more than two hours, if they had reported the crime to authorities sooner.
The victim was found under a bench, semi-conscious.

"This just gets worse and worse the more you dig into it," Lt. Mark Gagan of the Richmond Police Department. "It was like a horror movie. I can't believe not one person felt compelled to help her."
Nick Valencia contributed to this report.



link to story

PadawanBater said:

Then again this is the internet, where the bystander effect doesn't really play a huge role. In person I'm sure that would have been a much greater factor. But I'd like to think anyone witnessing a rape or something as extreme would step in and stop it.

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I would like to take all those guys who hurt the girl to an abandoned warehouse. I would then chain the dudes up buy their cocks and give them all a dull butter knife. I would then light the place on fire and leave lol. The only way out for them would be to try and cut their cocks off with the dull butter knife before the fire got them. Bastards should rot in hell.

PadawanBater said:

Then again this is the internet, where the bystander effect doesn't really play a huge role. In person I'm sure that would have been a much greater factor. But I'd like to think anyone witnessing a rape or something as extreme would step in and stop it.

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I'm just surprised more people aren't outraged. It sounds like you're saying you have to see it in person to have a strong opinion?

dialeyes said:

I would like to take all those guys who hurt the girl to an abandoned warehouse. I would then chain the dudes up buy their cocks and give them all a dull butter knife. I would then light the place on fire and leave lol. The only way out for them would be to try and cut their cocks off with the dull butter knife before the fire got them. Bastards should rot in hell.

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That reminds me of the movie pulp fiction, when Marsalas tells Vincent that he intends to torture his rapist with a blow torch and a pair of pliers.

[youtube]rWOn1dFmFds[/youtube]
Vigilantes may get more heat than the rapists I'm afraid lol they might all hire lawyers and sue you for giving them a taste of their own medicine.

I noticed that all accounts of this horrific crime we careful not to reveal the race of the victim. If these Hispanic dude's did this to a white girl is that considered a hate crime? Probably not, because 15 yr old teen girls don't have a voice lobbying congress...


And I have to wonder if this kind of behavior is more tolerable in the Hispanic culture? As far as I know none were illegals, but most if not all were Hispanic

interesting question, spose it's a lot to do with the diffusion of responsibility - if there're ten bystanders then any one of them feels less responsible because they think along the lines of "why should i help and not one of these others"
Darley and Latane, psychologists, 1964. their hypothesis eventually led to the theory of social impact (2001)

I don't agree with it myself, I'd be right in there trying to get the fuckers offa her. Poor lass.

Green Cross said:

I'm just surprised more people aren't outraged. It sounds like you're saying you have to see it in person to have a strong opinion?

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Not necessarily, though I think if I were in person, my opinion would no doubt be much stronger. It's terrible what happened to this chick, but put it in perspective, how many people died on the battlefield that day or in Darfur? I'm outraged about it all, but what can I really do about any of these situations? What is the point of being outraged about anything you have no control over really?

It's not uncommon in gang culture, but I don't think it's specific to any race.
Women are "property" to be used and abused and "taught a lesson" when necessary.
It's disgusting.

I chased a mugger after he jumped a women in front of a lot of people, and the only other person who reacted was a security guard who saw it on camera on the upper level of the building. I was almost on the bastard chasing him up an escalator, but the security guard clotheslined him at the top. That was sweet.