Put "VOTE NO ON PROP 19" in your signature!

We need to keep spreading the facts about this draconian piece of legislation! Put "VOTE NO ON PROP 19" in your signature to spread the truth and get the message out to all CA growers and patients! I love california but hate our politicians!

I don't want to muddle up your thread but can you point me to a thread with the facts of this legislation and why I should vote no.

Thanks!

-ABM-

so why should I vote no? you have given me zero info

fisk said:

so why should I vote no? you have given me zero info

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This is why I was asking him to direct me to a thread with this info.

here's a thread discussing this very topic-- https://www.rollitup.org/california-patients/354700-decriminalization-yes-prop-19-no.html
but here's my reasoning to vote NO-- Marlboro's going to flood the market with pre-rolled corporate crap joints dropping the price of bud altogether because of the huge supply which will then take money out of the pockets of the real growers who will then be taxed to hell just for growing it which will then cripple the local economies(grocery stores etc) because the money made through medical pot will be absorbed out of the private economy by the govt through taxes leaving everyone except the govt with more tax money that we all know they are going to blow. doesnt matter how much taxpayers give the govt, theyll keep spending us into massive deficits. fuck legalization, give us decriminalization because the govt is just going to fuck it all up like they always do.

you can go read the proposed legislation for yourself and see that medical growers come under stricter guidelines and its just going to give the govt more power which is never good

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Complete_text_of_The_Regulate,_Control_and_Tax_Cannabis_Act_of_2010_(California)

http://stash.norml.org/californias-prop-19-a-word-for-word-analysis

heres two links with information on the prop 19. read the actual text for the proposition. dont go by heresay.

I am still yet to see any credible argument why I should vote NO on 19. Yes, it could put the small dealer out of business, but it will not destroy the small time personal grower. There is simply no reason to continue to play the "but I can't make money if it is legal" game any longer. I don't think that I am the only one who simply wants to be able to legally enjoy a joint while kicking back without any strings attached.

thanks for posting those, very informative. but everyone who wants to grow is already growing under prop 215 and sb420 and they propose that you'd be given a strict limit of a 5'x5' garden... there are going to be big corporate lobbyists breathing down politicans necks to make sure that you stick to the new guidelines or face the harsher penalties that come with the new law. give us decriminalization and let the free market decide where to take it, not more govt regulation.

"the road to hell is paved with good intentions"

notoriousb said:

but here's my reasoning to vote NO-- Marlboro's going to flood the market with pre-rolled corporate crap joints dropping the price of bud altogether because of the huge supply which will then take money out of the pockets of the real growers who will then be taxed to hell just for growing it which will then cripple the local economies(grocery stores etc)

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Are you going to buy prerolled schwagg made by Marlboro? I'm not and I don't know anyone else who would. They can make all the prerolls they want, if no one buys them then they'll stop.

There will always be a market for fresh locally grown A grade bud in California. No one can drive local growers who provide top shelf bud out of the market with massive amounts of schwagg. Californians don't look for bargains when it comes to their bud, they look for quality.

Just a thought here. I'm one of those poor local growers who you think will be put out of business by prop 19. I just did the math on my profits/expenses for my last cycle. I made a 720% profit. That's selling it wholesale. By the time it hits the shelf in a medical dispensary that profit goes up to over 1200%. That means what cost me $100 to grow ends up being sold for $1200. So yeah, the current system that you are defending is in fact ripping everyone off.

Buds will still need to be grown, trimmed, and sold. New strains will still need to be created. Clones will still need to be cut. Nutrients, soil, lights, etc will still need to be purchased. If anything this could help the growing economy, not hurt it. Only the growers/dealers will make less money. Considering they are making around a 1200% profit off of the buds they are selling now, maybe that's not a bad thing.

notoriousb said:

you can go read the proposed legislation for yourself and see that medical growers come under stricter guidelines and its just going to give the govt more power which is never good

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The growing/possession limits in prop 19 do not apply to medical patients. They are for recreational use. And even the recreation state minimum limits in prop 19 allow for as much as you could possibly consume for personal use.

klmmicro said:

I am still yet to see any credible argument why I should vote NO on 19. Yes, it could put the small dealer out of business, but it will not destroy the small time personal grower. There is simply no reason to continue to play the "but I can't make money if it is legal" game any longer. I don't think that I am the only one who simply wants to be able to legally enjoy a joint while kicking back without any strings attached.

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Excellent post. I'd also like to add to that that the idea the argument that legalizing cannabis somehow takes away our freedom is a pretty weak one.

notoriousb said:

thanks for posting those, very informative. but everyone who wants to grow is already growing under prop 215 and sb420 and they propose that you'd be given a strict limit of a 5'x5' garden...

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Well since prop 19 is about recreational use and not medical use that should be no big deal to medical patients.

5x5 is the minimum limit that can be set. No city/county would be allowed to set a lower limit. But every city/county is California is allowed to set as high of a limit as they want. If a county wants to set a limit of 500sq feet, prop 19 would allow them to do that.

Also it's pretty easy to pull a pound out of a 4x4 (16 sq foot) trey. A pound and a half is possible with co2 and the right strain. a 5x5 (25 sq foot) trey gives you 50% more space than the 4x4 tray. It shouldn't be difficult to pull a pound and a half out of a 5x5 tray.

That's 24 ounces every cycle. Since there is no plant limit imposed by prop 19 you could do no veg SOG lollipops. That comes out to more than 12 grams per day. You could pretty successfully chain smoke blunts filled with your homegrown all day long every day under the minimum limits of prop 19.

My point being that if you're just growing for your own personal stash than prop 19 really doesn't hurt you at all.

The only way that prop 19 doesn't allow you to grow enough bud is if you're selling commercially. But it's legal to grow commercially under prop 19 too. You just have to fill out your permits like every other commercial business in California.

Is that really so unreasonable?

there are going to be big corporate lobbyists breathing down politicans necks to make sure that you stick to the new guidelines or face the harsher penalties that come with the new law.

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There are? Do you have a factual example of this or did you just make that up?

give us decriminalization and let the free market decide where to take it, not more govt regulation.

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Decriminalization is pretty much the opposite of a "free market" since it is 100% illegal under any circumstance to make a profit off of cannabis. Prop 19 allows you to legally make a profit off of cannabis for the first time anywhere in the united states since 1937.

So I guess this all boils down to what you are trying to get out of growing. Thanks for the info guys. I will read up on this more prior to making my decision. Reps to you both..

Well one thing you missed out on on your comment is that if this laws pass you still won't be able to just roll. Joint freely like you claim unless your in the privacy of your own home with no one under 18 years old around. Right now I can go to Venice beach roll a blunt and smoke out as lono9g as I got my medical Carr. This law clearly make thY illegal by stating that smoke mArijuana in the presence of minors or in public is punishable by Fine or jail time. Why is this particular bill so special? Anyone who lives on their own and takes care of themselves, pays their taxes doesn't want another reason to be taxed by our government. Think aboutthe motives that government has to pass a bill of this sort. Think back the last ten years and give me an example of law the was.created by our politicians that our best interests were at heart. No big business, but us the peoples best interest. Not this bill

LOL at selling "schwagg" in California! If anybody wants some let me know, I know some people who are literally giving it away cause they can't sell that shit here in San Diego, good luck mass producing it AND selling it, it's almost worthless

(disclaimer: Yes I DO know people giving it away but do not contact me for it as that was just an expression)

This is a perfect time for us to come together and think outside the box. If a person told you that were gonna give you a million dollars your gonna ask "what's the catch?" We need to ask this same questions to the creator of this bill. Stop being stupid by thinking that the price of pot is gonna drop cause its legal there is no fact to this statement. Let me ask my real grower a question: are you gonna lower the price of your weed? No because if they legalize pot the way they want to in this bill then the grower will be taking a.greater risk by not following the 5x5 law. More risk higher cost. Of course the weed corp will offer aower quality product for less of a cost but if you gotta pay taxes on that then where's the saving. Mexicans don't charge tax for that quality ill get it from them. A lot of you will also once you see that this law was not created for the people.w

Don't forget to mention Dan kane that counties also have the right to simply not allow you to grow period. More counties will adopt this practice when they see the amount of tax revenues for profit weed corps Bring in. They will be glad to help these for profit corps eliminate its competition, us. That means you too. This is more likely to happen then your idea, which is pretty much, state law out weighs federal laws so once passed its all good no prob. Lol!!!!!!!! Lets be real about this!!!!!!
Lol!!!! we all know that federal law out weighs state law. The politicians that run our counties know that also. DAN WHAT IS YOUR REASON FOR SELLING FALSE HOPE? You seem smarter then that.

chewystuart said:

This is a perfect time for us to come together and think outside the box. If a person told you that were gonna give you a million dollars your gonna ask "what's the catch?" We need to ask this same questions to the creator of this bill.

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You're being very vague here. What specifically are you saying? Is there some evil master plan we should be aware of?

are you gonna lower the price of your weed? No because if they legalize pot the way they want to in this bill then the grower will be taking a.greater risk by not following the 5x5 law. More risk higher cost.

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Prop 19 allows Californians to do legal commercial growing. Legal growing means more product and less risk which equals lower prices. Any non-felons in California are allowed to open up for profit cannabis related businesses.

The only reason for the insane markup on bud is because it's illegal. No legal products have that high of a markup. Allow for legal commercial growing and prices will drop.

chewystuart said:

Don't forget to mention Dan kane that counties also have the right to simply not allow you to grow period.

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That is not true. Show me where prop 19 says this.

DAN WHAT IS YOUR REASON FOR SELLING FALSE HOPE?

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If prop 19 is so bad, then why do you need to spread misinformation to oppose it?

Having read the Prop, it sounds similar to the way they approach alcohol. Drink in public in my area and you get a ticket. People do not want to see it and bummer if you have kids under 18. It will be legal, plain and simple. If I want to smoke in my home, then I can with no doctor's note...nothing. I just do it and be good with it. I can grow for myself, no notes needed. As for counties selecting whether they have to abide by the law, please post that section of the Prop so that we can read it for ourselves. I have not found it myself, nor anyone else that I know that has read the verbiage. I am still not hearing, reading or seeing any reason toe vote NO. State your case with the sections of law quoted please.

You seem to know everything that the bill says DON KANE. Have you taken the opportunity to pay attention to what it doesn't say? Cause it sure doesn't say that 5x5 would be the minimun but it does say that each county can decide their own limits. now if you read between the lines that means that the mayor and or city counsel could simply not adopt these new laws, after all its still illegal federally. I admire your optimistic attitude, but truth and logic is always gonna trump HOPE. so lets all hope that the politicians backing this bill have our best interest at heart

FUCK 19....

Please read up on it some more at the link in my signature! REALLY good info. Reviews by two independent attorneys are posted there.

FUCK 19