QUICK: WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY 9 DAY SEEDLINGS?

1) Pictures
ATTACHED

2) Growing indoor or outdoors
INDOOR

3) Watering schedule
ONCE EVERY OTHER DAY APPROXIMATELY or WHEN SOIL MOSTURE IS AS LOW AS ABOUT 25%-30%

4) Growing Medium
SUPER SOIL - I HAVE NOT ADDED ANYTHING TO THE ORGANIC POTTING MIX

5) What stage of growth
SEEDLING - 9 DAYS FROM GERMINATION

6) Strain
707 HEADBAND

7)RH/TEMPS
These were doing great, and then I was altering the RH/TEMPS and trying to dial in the VPD with all environmental controls automated, likely made too many adjustements in the process.

While the RH was quite high at one point recently, there was a watering and this might have caused some root rot which is showing on the leaf? Or fungal infection on the leaf? (I did try to spray a bit of baking soda dissolved in H20+a drop of dishwasher soap on them this morning to see if hat would help as a fungicide which I read about online).

However even before that, the new plant growth was YELLOWING and CURLING downward new leaf tips DRIED OUT.

Now, new growth seems to be halted as the plants are stressed suddenly.

It seems yesterday I finally dialed in the proper RH/TEMPS which I am targeting at around 80.1 F (27 Celcius) and 80 RH. Sound okay? This was calculated for a solid VPD of the early seedlings.

I've attached screenshots of recent measurements and graphs. One showing that the RH has been fluctuating between 75-85 with lights on.

I have also been dropping temps 1-3 degrees Celcius at night.

8.) LIGHT

I have a cheap lux meter and a phone app lux meter and a plant monitor device. The plant monitor (the Vegtrug "Plant Monitor" App/Device) shows DOUBLE the reading of the phone app and lux meter. So I am not sure which to follow. I had dialed UP the light then taken it back down when plants were showing stress.

9) EC
This Vegtrug app/device also shows my EC is excessive. It seems the babies are a bit water logged right now (EC goes UP in the app with any watering) even after 20 hours since last watering.

WHATS NEXT?

How can I fix all this?

If I had to guess, I would say: It seems the problems are due to earlier fluctuating of the RH/TEMPS wildly while I was getting different settings dialed in. Which I think I sorted out finally yesterday, about 20 hours ago. But are my targets correct for 80F/80RH? This should give a VPD of of .7 kPa which I understand is great for seedlings.

Are current settings okay? I suppose I need to wait for soil moisture to drop a lot before adding any additional water.

Any other insights or anything else I can do at this point to help them recover? Perhaps move them to bigger pots with more soil that will be dryer? Or just give them time to recover? Or any other ideas?

I'd say a couple things

Over watered
Is the soil buffered, what's yer water pH
Soil could be a bit hot

Thanks for your reply Bob.

Yes it seems the water was too heavy. Will reduce humidity now to see if I can speed that recovery and bring it to a better range. I'm aiming for 70-75 degrees F and 70-72 relative humidity now (down about 5 degress and %).

I just translated some info on the super soil product I am using, and your 100% right!

It is a great super soil based on what they have put into it overall, and I did very well with it for a outdoor grow recently.

However IT IS NOT BUFFERED!!!!! Good call Bob!!!!

Here is what the soil seller said:

"The water used for watering plants must be adjusted to the pH value to 6.5, use lemon juice to adjust the pH value, citric acid, phosphoric acid or vinegar as well. Or if the pH cannot be adjusted, use fresh rainwater to water always."

And:

"If the plant shows a pH lockout, it is malnourished or leaves burnt, immediately water the pH 6.5 watering solution until it flows 70-80% through the bottom of the pot. Use lots of water. Will help adjust the pH in the soil to return to normal and trees can absorb nutrients."

Seems like this soil is more meant for outdoor.

Now I know I need to add a buffer for the transplant to final pot.

I had assumed and checked with other growers that pH 7 water will not hurt a soil grow (unlike hydro) since the organic material can buffer. Seemed to make sense.

Not the case here!!!!!

So I will follow the soil maker's advice and now go flush this with pH 6.5 right away. Hopefully that will fix the problem real quick then.

Thanks again Bob. And what did you mean about soil hot? Like heating up from the lights???

Overgrowtho said:

Thanks for your reply Bob.

Yes it seems the water was too heavy. Will reduce humidity now to see if I can speed that recovery and bring it to a better range. I'm aiming for 70-75 degrees F and 70-72 relative humidity now (down about 5 degress and %).

I just translated some info on the super soil product I am using, and your 100% right!

It is a great super soil based on what they have put into it overall, and I did very well with it for a outdoor grow recently.

However IT IS NOT BUFFERED!!!!! Good call Bob!!!!

Here is what the soil seller said:

"The water used for watering plants must be adjusted to the pH value to 6.5, use lemon juice to adjust the pH value, citric acid, phosphoric acid or vinegar as well. Or if the pH cannot be adjusted, use fresh rainwater to water always."

And:

"If the plant shows a pH lockout, it is malnourished or leaves burnt, immediately water the pH 6.5 watering solution until it flows 70-80% through the bottom of the pot. Use lots of water. Will help adjust the pH in the soil to return to normal and trees can absorb nutrients."

Seems like this soil is more meant for outdoor.

Now I know I need to add a buffer for the transplant to final pot.

I had assumed and checked with other growers that pH 7 water will not hurt a soil grow (unlike hydro) since the organic material can buffer. Seemed to make sense.

Not the case here!!!!!

So I will follow the soil maker's advice and now go flush this with pH 6.5 right away. Hopefully that will fix the problem real quick then.

Thanks again Bob. And what did you mean about soil hot? Like heating up from the lights???

Click to expand...

It looks like to me your trying too hard.
hot soil means that there are too many ppms in it.
Plants look like they have thrips.
Soil looks like a knock off of ffof, which suck for doing what your doing with the seedlings.
Seedlings are not established in that soil. Suggest watering in a veg nute at about 200 ppms with a pinch of microbes.
Do not transplant these plants. or if you do get some decent soil and that isnt going to fix any issue you have right now and if you do you need to be very gentile with it. but dont.
These size plants dont need a bunch of light.
You need to go on the y tube and watch some of the harley smith videos.
Research what microbes do.

Thanks @Bernie420

I had no idea that my super soil was going to lack any pH buffer causing problems, and be too hot which is really bad for seedlings.

I have followed your advice and watered a bit with 200 PPM (used organic A nutrient) and a pinch of Myco+ that I had. At 6.5 pH.

Have reduced light dimmer to very low level and only 1 light.

And will learn more about Harley Smith and microbes....

I also have some Cal Mag, I don't suppose I should add a bit of that?

Much appreciated for your time and advice.

Photos attatched from the morning after having watered with 6.5 last night.

Overgrowtho said:

Thanks @Bernie420

I had no idea that my super soil was going to lack any pH buffer causing problems, and be too hot which is really bad for seedlings.

I have followed your advice and watered a bit with 200 PPM (used organic A nutrient) and a pinch of Myco+ that I had. At 6.5 pH.

Have reduced light dimmer to very low level and only 1 light.

And will learn more about Harley Smith and microbes....

I also have some Cal Mag, I don't suppose I should add a bit of that?

Much appreciated for your time and advice.

Photos attatched from the morning after having watered with 6.5 last night.

Click to expand...

im just curious what light you were rocking before any adjustments. Like how bright, far away from the plant or whatever. If you know what a t-5 bulb is and how bright those are these could be under a couple of 2' t-5's about 10'' away and you would be fine. As far as brightness, etc. goes.

Take a pic of each again in a couple of days so you can do a side by side to see if there is any improvement.

Great question. Thanks again Bernie.

I have 3x Quantum Boards at 240 Watts but I unplugged two and dimmed the third so that its now only outputting 120 watts.

It is far away abut 45 inches. Lux meter on my plant monitor says 3800 but on my phone app and also lux meter, it says about 10,000 lux.

So I am still confused as to which is the correct and the proper setting for that?

Overgrowtho said:

Great question. Thanks again Bernie.

I have 3x Quantum Boards at 240 Watts but I unplugged two and dimmed the third so that its now only outputting 120 watts.

It is far away abut 45 inches. Lux meter on my plant monitor says 3800 but on my phone app and also lux meter, it says about 10,000 lux.

So I am still confused as to which is the correct and the proper setting for that?

Click to expand...

Doesnt sound like enough light now to me, im not a lighting expert i dont use leds but...
led is an intense light. the light itself is very directional as in straight down. but at 120 watss that doesnt sound like much but dont drop it right on top because its an led maybe lower the light to 24 inches away and see what that looks like

I reccommend getting a 2 bulb 2 foot t-5 rig to grow little seedlings like that.. and with that rig I would say to put the bulbs about 8 inches from the top of the plant and let it grow 2 inches and then keep raising it as the plant grows keeping it 6 inches away till about four inches tall then move to a bigger light.. and then ease the bigger light on top of the plant untill it becomes optimal...dont just slam a big light on a plant that is used to a little light...it will cause stress..

QBs should be at 24-30" at that age, I always run mine 80%-100% strength, that way they are used to it
All I use are QB lights

Watch yr over watering and the new growth should be good
All they need is like 4oz of water every couple days
Lift cup...test weight when dry
Lift cup..... Test when you water
Then you know when to water again, when it feels dry

That's a 4ft version... they work good enough to get the seedlings going. May want a shorter fixture tho. Idk what you have for space.

Thanks @BobThe420Builder I will work on this. I think I will dial up the lighting gradually now, as you suggest. And make the lights closer too.

But wouldnt you say there is a max LUX you want on little seedlings, or it doesn't matter?
After all: I'm getting very diff advice from @HydroKid239 , who suggests to dial down lights with a 20 watt floro.

Anyhow, it seems that we might be on a good track now.

As @Bernie420 mentioned this might be some bit of Thrip, so tonight I did a bit of Neem foliar spray.

Today I got a Co2 tank in there all set up (final piece arrived in the mail) with 800 PPM dialed in for now, for veg. 800 recommended?

I also put a little bit of rooting hormone powder around the base of the stem to top feed a few drops on each of them. Nobody suggested this but I thought it was a good idea since I had the powder laying around, and the problems seemed to have stemmed from a lack of roots establishing.

I'm not trying to start anyshit here but I think I would listen to BT420B as always thank you for your time

Overgrowtho said:

Thanks @BobThe420Builder I will work on this. I think I will dial up the lighting gradually now, as you suggest. And make the lights closer too.

But wouldnt you say there is a max LUX you want on little seedlings, or it doesn't matter?
After all: I'm getting very diff advice from @HydroKid239 , who suggests to dial down lights with a 20 watt floro.

Anyhow, it seems that we might be on a good track now.

As @Bernie420 mentioned this might be some bit of Thrip, so tonight I did a bit of Neem foliar spray.

Today I got a Co2 tank in there all set up (final piece arrived in the mail) with 800 PPM dialed in for now, for veg. 800 recommended?

I also put a little bit of rooting hormone powder around the base of the stem to top feed a few drops on each of them. Nobody suggested this but I thought it was a good idea since I had the powder laying around, and the problems seemed to have stemmed from a lack of roots establishing.

Click to expand...

a rooting hormone is what you use to get roots going from a cut...I learned that you never add it to a plant that has small roots already established and that it will cause X to happen...I forgot what X was so......, that wasnt the right move.

Is an application of neem the treatment for thrips? neem is al oil and I hope you didnt suffocate your stomata doing this.

and turn off the co2 these are tiny seedlings..that would be like giving nitro fuel to a baby... your trying to super charge a sick plant and that plant is a seedling...its a waste of money now and if you dont have an ABSOLUTLY sealed room its a waste of money..

Overgrowtho said:

Thanks @BobThe420Builder I will work on this. I think I will dial up the lighting gradually now, as you suggest. And make the lights closer too.

But wouldnt you say there is a max LUX you want on little seedlings, or it doesn't matter?
After all: I'm getting very diff advice from @HydroKid239 , who suggests to dial down lights with a 20 watt floro.

Click to expand...

were are saying the same thing or at least two of us are and that is too dial down the lights. if you go by bobs recommendation and crank it up ...well you need to remember that you aint bob dont have his skills and are not starting off with his plants

keep that in mind...

yours need to be nursed back to health.

Bernie420 said:

were are saying the same thing or at least two of us are and that is too dial down the lights. if you go by bobs recommendation and crank it up ...well you need to remember that you aint bob dont have his skills and are not starting off with his plants

keep that in mind...

yours need to be nursed back to health.

Click to expand...

I'm there with you on using less powerful lights at a closer range. And @BobThe420Builder was giving the suggestion using the QB board already over the plants. No one is really wrong. I also hope I didn't come across as disagreeing with BOB either. I have seen and read plenty of info that's put out and I wouldn't ever go against it. Solid helper there.

I should have read more about it hell I'm slow on this but I ment on disrespect to anyone I'm to new for that as always thank you for your time and help

Sorry op but kid shit I was hoping to have some of your luck to rub off on me LoL as always

Okay so I've waited a couple days and here is the update and also a shot of my grow room


and a side by side of a seedling from a few days ago.

Left is now. Right is 2 days ago. Basically they look the same, no new growth or changes. It seems.

The water had dried out to about 25% moisture which I think, it means I should water a bit. So I added just about 4 oz of water to each, that had 100 PPM of organic fert in it. Prior to watering I sprinkled a bit of Myco+ around the base of the stems to top feed it, hoping it will help roots get established.

My soil manufacturer told me the soil is suitable for germinating and seedlings and the secret is to water with 6.4 pH and only water once or twice per week.

As you can see from the side by side, after 2 days they are not doing very much better, but maybe a tiny bit better. I dont really see new growth.

Maybe the hotness of the soil was a big mistake, and next time I should start in my jiffy pellets. Then once roots are strongly established, I can transplant to the hot soil. Right?

However I a thinking I should also amend that soil to mix with normal topsoil and perlite, vermiculite, and dolamite lime along with some Myco+ under the transplanted seedling.

Are these good ideas?
Any recommendations going forward for nursing these babies back to life?
Further insights into what is wrong with them?
How does my grow room look?

Such a large overthought on seedlings. All you had to do was get an adequate seedling ( mild mix ) to start them “ uninterrupted “ ( no nutes at early germ ) as most good bagged have some mild amendments already in it. Ph at 6.5 and forget them for a bit. Quantums at about 50-70% power to harden them upfront. Hang height 20-24” .

way too much going on.