Rethinking what ripe really is….

I’ve recently completed my second indoor grow. Years ago I grew many years in a row outdoors so I’m not a total newbie…although autos and full spectrum LED lights didn’t exist back then.
Anyway, I was taught by a very experienced and respected grower on the finer points of determining the proper time to harvest. Above all else, the buds were not ready if they were producing new white pistils….and I’ve maintained that belief….until today, maybe.
On both of my grows, which were both autos, I waited and waited on “no more white pistils”….and held out even longer for a decent population of amber trichs.
And both times my plants had a much stronger aroma and were way stickier well before I ended up chopping.
I just chopped a very small CdLC auto that I’m convinced would have been better if taken a good 8-10 days earlier. But I waited and 99% of the white pistils had turned and receded, but the presence of amber trichs was just not there.
As a matter of fact, if I was only looking at trichs, the plant was still not ready. It was 75-80% cloudy with a small number of ambers….the rest were relatively clear.
But the plant was losing its smell and stickiness….so I chopped.
Some say it’s common with autos to not produce ambers….I dunno.
What I do know is I’m off the autos for now and have 3 big bushy photos that are being flipped to 12/12 today.
By the way, I grow under a HLG 320 r-spec led….in soil with dry amendments.
I’ve included a pic from June 20 and one from yesterday. It’s tough to tell but the earlier pic there’s a ton of white pistils and the trichs were underdeveloped. But the stench was way more powerful and the stickiness was too.
Any thoughts????

Bullmark said:

I’ve recently completed my second indoor grow. Years ago I grew many years in a row outdoors so I’m not a total newbie…although autos and full spectrum LED lights didn’t exist back then.
Anyway, I was taught by a very experienced and respected grower on the finer points of determining the proper time to harvest. Above all else, the buds were not ready if they were producing new white pistils….and I’ve maintained that belief….until today, maybe.
On both of my grows, which were both autos, I waited and waited on “no more white pistils”….and held out even longer for a decent population of amber trichs.
And both times my plants had a much stronger aroma and were way stickier well before I ended up chopping.
I just chopped a very small CdLC auto that I’m convinced would have been better if taken a good 8-10 days earlier. But I waited and 99% of the white pistils had turned and receded, but the presence of amber trichs was just not there.
As a matter of fact, if I was only looking at trichs, the plant was still not ready. It was 75-80% cloudy with a small number of ambers….the rest were relatively clear.
But the plant was losing its smell and stickiness….so I chopped.
Some say it’s common with autos to not produce ambers….I dunno.
What I do know is I’m off the autos for now and have 3 big bushy photos that are being flipped to 12/12 today.
By the way, I grow under a HLG 320 r-spec led….in soil with dry amendments.
I’ve included a pic from June 20 and one from yesterday. It’s tough to tell but the earlier pic there’s a ton of white pistils and the trichs were underdeveloped. But the stench was way more powerful and the stickiness was too.
Any thoughts????
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I think the hype over amber trichs is just that. I have a strain Ive been growing for years, and I've harvested at 7 weeks, and also at 11 weeks. It's best around 9, but it's not bad either way. With that being said, it obviously weighs a bit better the longer you run, less weight at 7 weeks, but not much more at ten weeks. The buzz is a bit more noticeably different at 7 weeks, but its not over dramatic. Also, noticeable if I let it run, but still, not a dramatic difference. I think each plant has its sweet spot, and after growing the same plants grow after grow, you do really learn to read them. I dont usually scope anymore, but look at the plant as a whole. You cant really find the optimum harvest time, unless you grow them more than once. Some strains even change profiles the last week. The hoys of pheno hunting!

I look at trichomes because they're pretty, not for an indicator of when to harvest.

i shoot for mostly cloudy trichs, you're always going to have some clear, and some amber, IF the strain produces amber trichs, i've run a couple strains now that never do...and they were photos, the only autos i've grown were when i was doing the Vault grows for free seeds and tshirts

All I know is harvesting too early sucks. I ruined my first grow by chopping too early and I will never do it again. I'll take some couch-lock over having a couple oz of garbage. I used to think of it like cubensis where spores can drop within hours, but the harvest window seems to be a few weeks wide.

Losing terps as the plant ages. I haven't pushed anything too far past ripe to see what happens but if I were to just guess I'd think it may be (outside of genetics) a response to the stress of running it so long. Someone with experience in breeding may be able to verify that statement, I also don't do autos myself so I can't say what happens to them when they're pushed for too long, on a photo sure, but an auto I have no clue.

I did a gelato run a while back and did the same thing, looking at nothing but the trichs. The plant was telling me as was the calendar that they were done, but the trichomes were lying to me. No problems during the grow so unless I stressed the plant somehow without seeing it and caused the issue, the only other two things should be either taking it too far or genetics. Either way there's nothing but a narcotic stone to it that really sucks if you overdo it. Bag appeal is great, the high sucks.

As Odessa mentioned above as well, harvesting early sucks just as much. I pulled a gorilla glue too soon because I was using the calendar and nothing else. I stressed those plants multiple times, got a little hermi going so I pulled from paranoia. Now that run needs to be mixed with a good indica just to get some balance there. I think I read somewhere that you should have some small amount of CBD to balance out the effects of THC. I'm sure there a strains out there where the terpenes help balance out the high due to the entourage effect, but doing high THC clean without terps makes for shakes the clown.

How much weight do you think a plant adds in that 2 week period of could chop today but im.gonna go a couple weeks longer for weight? 2%? 5%? Wonder if it's truly smarter to move on to the next grow a week or 2 faster than wait 2 weeks for a extra 7 grams..

Any thoughts

ProPheT 216 said:

How much weight do you think a plant adds in that 2 week period of could chop today but im.gonna go a couple weeks longer for weight? 2%? 5%? Wonder if it's truly smarter to move on to the next grow a week or 2 faster than wait 2 weeks for a extra 7 grams..

Any thoughts

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I've noticed in the last few weeks it's enough to cause all my branches that didn't need staking, to start needing it. They begin drooping and flopping over. At 5% for a one pound run it's about 23 grams which isn't a ton, but to the small time hobby/medical grower it will last a while. Whether it's worth the effort and electric costs, I couldn't say, but I like to go till I'm sure they're mature in my eyes. I can see what you're saying though as far as getting a new run going as far as turn over. It makes sense as far as production. It took me years to get patient enough to wait, maybe now I wait too long because I'm never worried about running out. Something to think about for sure.

I don’t know about weight, but I believe there is a “tipping point”
for every plant.
The point where it’s perfectly done,
Then it begins to degrade from then on.
Not all but a few strains I’ve regretted not pulling them in week 7-8 instead of
How they ended up at 10-11weeks.
I hang on to the fast finishers.

I firmly believe the healthier and less stressed the plant is the more chance for a “prototype” finish. That’s been the case with what I’ve seen.
I can’t say why some plants do what they do, but I can def see once the buds have gone through their end of cycle swell. My thoughts have changed a bit and I now believe once they swell your harvest window is open. A few white pistils used to make me say “not ripe”…..but not so much anymore. I’m talking about random white pistils here and there only.
I just chopped a very small auto that I stunted early on. Not much there but the quality is A+.
I noticed that some of the trichs on the top buds had gone past amber and totally degraded…..yet there was still a few little foxtail calyces w/ white pistils forming. And a decent number (15-20%) of clear trichs.
Im running a HLG 320 LED at about 70% intensity and always 24-26” above the canopy. I don’t recall my PPFD readings but they were very tame.
Given that I overcooked my last plants by a month and ruined them, I decided to chop this little guy and get on with some photos that have been vegging under the same light.
Sorry to ramble….but I think, with autos in particular, the genetics have been manipulated so extensively that anymore plants can really leave you scratching your head.

Not every strain even makes amber trichomes so theres also that to remember also personally i wouldnt grow autos indoors anyway photos are better for that i dont even recomend them for newbies either for outdoors then yeah i agree they serve a purpose anyway i take everything into account when i deciding on ripeness trichomes are but one sign of ripeness they arent always the best guide also on pistil colour some strains have more white coloured pistils anyway due to genetics

Bullmark said:

I firmly believe the healthier and less stressed the plant is the more chance for a “prototype” finish. That’s been the case with what I’ve seen.

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having an issue understanding your use of ‘prototype’ here: can you expand on that?

I used to buy into the 'trichs must be amber" thing. But in the strains I grew, they turn cloudy and that's it, let some get overripe waiting for amber and it never happened. My outdoor plants have been doing the stretch, waiting for the white hairs. Guessing I won't be able to let them flower more than 8-10 weeks max. Usually by the first week of October we start getting rain = bud rot. And the budworms will also cause that even if I use BT/Spinosad, so I can't really let them go more that a week or 2 into October - also by then they get fewer hours of direct sun due to their location.

By the way, when you buy clones or seeds, is the estimated/recommended flowering time by the seller/breeder true whether indoor or outdoor? Or just a guess?

I run all of my plants longer than most. What exactly does "overripe" entail?

Also what strains don't produce amber trichs? This is something I've never seen.

lusidghost said:

Also what strains don't produce amber trichs? This is something I've never seen.

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I've grown probably at least 20 different strains, and few have ended up with a random amber trich here and there.

obijohn said:

I've grown probably at least 20 different strains, and few have ended up with a random amber trich here and there.

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The majority of the weed you've grown doesn't amber up?

lusidghost said:

The majority of the weed you've grown doesn't amber up?

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The hairs do, yeah, calyx swell and hairs recede and they are done. But not so much the trichs, cloudy for the most part

you probably just didn't wait long enough. amber is not desirable imo. amber is an indicator to pull the plant even though it's not yet fully cloudy. all crystals will eventually turn amber during a long storage. add heat to speed up the rotting of weed and degredation of thc and cbd to an analgesic (tylenol is an analgesic for example). i need weed, not tylenol pm.

Bagginski said:

having an issue understanding your use of ‘prototype’ here: can you expand on that?

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Perhaps prototype isn’t the exact right word I was looking for. Maybe “textbook” finish is better suited?
I was saying that it’s been my experience that the healthier/less stressed plants tend to finish out in a more predictable way.
On the flip side, plants that have issues (deficiencies, lockouts, different stresses, etc) seem to always throw you a curveball at the end.
Of course I don’t have sort of scientific study backing this up but I’ve noticed It to be true with a lot of grows, both my own and others.
Plus there are always situations where there’s no way to know whether something is caused by the grower or if it’s just genetics.