Salt

Ok so me being a bit retarded when it comes to how salt affects plants,i'm under the impression that table salt (NaCl) is inorganic and would dramatically raise ph level and inhibit nutrient uptake by roots.
why do people refer to synthetic nutes as salts and why do these salt types not affect plants negatively?
Are these salts organic because they contain carbon and therefore do not affect ph and if so why are they regarded synthetic.Why are epsom salts harmless? Lastly this is a bit of a random one, what salts are found in desert sand and are they harmful to cannabis?
(im purely speculating here ,so everything i've said is most likely rubbish, so anyone please feel free to enlighten me)

This is all Chemistry 101. I'll give a couple, but then you need to do your own homework.

Salts are neutral ionic compounds. Some organic, some not. There are also Acid Salts and Basic Salts. These are only partially neutral.

Something is chemically organic if it has at least a C atom. Some definitions require a C H bond. But that's why table salt is inorganic; no Carbon.

Chemically organic has nothing to do with Organic foods and Organic fertilizers.
These types of Organics require a fee to be labeled as such, while real organic compounds require only a single Carbon atom at no charge.

Well, that's not true. There could be a charge. Count the electrons.

Salts refer to elemental salts everything needs to live on the planet.Nitrogen,potassium,calcium etc,etc.

Found this http://ucanr.org/sites/uccesc/files/51474.pdf

ok so for instance in bottled nutes the k in npk is Potassium carbonate or K+ (a salt)

Calcium Calcium Ca++
Magnesium Magnesium Mg++
Sodium Sodium Na+
Chlorine Chloride Cl-
Sulfur Sulfate SO4--
Carbon Bicarbonate, Carbonate HCO3-, CO3--
Potassium Potassium K+
Phosphorus Phosphate HPO4--
Nitrogen Nitrate NO3-
Fluorine Fluoride F-
Boron Borate B(OH)3
Silicon Silicate Si(OH)

Im i right in saying that the only factor differentiating synthetic from organic nutes is the process in witch these "salts" are synthesized ?

Yep,organics use microbes to break complex compounds down into ionic form.Synthetics just skip that step.

Resinhound said:

Yep,organics use microbes to break complex compounds down into ionic form.Synthetics just skip that step.

Click to expand...

What he said.

Makes you think, doesn't it?

So technically speaking synthetic nutes in moderation to maintain a fairly neutral ph wouldn't actually kill microbes they would steal/replace some microbial species food source, which could cause them to die .For instance endo mycorrhizae would be useless to the plants roots when its getting an abundance of already usable nutrients, therefore no exchange of sugars from plant for broken down nutes from the mycorr.

Thats pretty much my understanding of it yes.

Well, once dissolved the salts aren't salts anymore, they're just ions in a solution, which will be cationic or anionic. This is what determines it's effect on pH.

Cations like NH4+, ammonium, a plant available form of Nitrogen, will cause a drop in pH, making it more acidic.

Which would have an effect on bacteria population, and likely the mycorhizals too. Not sure what effect or how much.

Yeah, you pretty much eliminate the need for microlife if you can provide it all in an already available form to the plant. NH4+, NH3- are the two types of N, though I believe once inside the plant, one is actually broken down into the other form for the purpose of assimilation.

yes you are 100% correct i was just reading on the outcomes of dissolved salts and also read about the decreasing ph involving ammonium

Organic fertilizers circumvent the criticisms leveled at "synthetic" fertilizers but it should not be forgotten that plants take up nitrogen in the form of ammonium (NH4+) or nitrate (NO3-) ions regardless of whether it was mineralized from an organic source or applied as in inorganic fertilizer like ammonium nitrate. An advantage of using organics, where practical, is that nutrients are liberated slowly as the microbes mineralize the organic materials. Thus there is low risk for fertilizer burn on plants and less risk for environmental problems due to runoff and leaching. Another potentially negative effect of long-term use of ammonia-based fertilizers is soil acidification due to ammonia oxidation by the nitrifying bacteria. Soil pH can drop below 5.0 after prolonged use of ammonia-based fertilizers and this can cause marked reductions in populations of bacteria and actinomycetes and simultaneous increases in the relative abundance of fungi. Such changes might favor the development of certain fungal plant pathogens. On the other hand, the potato scab disease is reduced by the low pH because the actinomycete which causes it is eliminated. These changes are easily reversed with applications of lime to the soil. Thus we see qualitative changes in the soil populations due to some management inputs but this is a long way from "sterilizing" or "killing" the soil.

(quoted from) http://organiclifestyles.tamu.edu/soil/microbeindex.html

There you go man. This shits exciting isn't it?

I mean, who knew that nutrients weren't just going straight into the plant with the water, but had to basically pass an identity check and be escorted inside by well paid security.

A salt is an ionic compound that can be formed by mixing an acid with a base. NaCl is one type of salt, but both Na+ and Cl- will quickly reach toxic levels and lockout other ions when added.

You can make NaCl by mixing NaOH (sodium lye) with HCl (Hydrochloric acid). Na+ and Cl- are bound with ionic bonds rather than covalent bonds, thus it is a salt.

Similarly, you can make Ca(NO3)2 (calcium nitrate), by mixing Ca(OH)2 with HNO3. The H+ and OH- make water, leaving Ca+ and NO3-. Calcium nitrate is a salt.

Magnesium sulfate can be made with magnesium hydroxide and sulfuric acid.

In hydroponics, N should be sourced via nitrate salts (calcium nitrate and potassium nitrate) rather than urea or broken down amino acids (organic matter).

But the reason you can't say "organic vs synthetic" here is because most urea based formulas on the market are both organic AND synthetic. Jack's classic is a good example of this type of formula. Urea is both organic and synthetic at the same time. Urea is also not a salt as it only has covalent bonds.

churchhaze said:

A salt is an ionic compound that can be formed by mixing an acid with a base. NaCl is one type of salt, but both Na+ and Cl- will quickly reach toxic levels and lockout other ions when added.

You can make NaCl by mixing NaOH (sodium lye) with HCl (Hydrochloric acid). Na+ and Cl- are bound with ionic bonds rather than covalent bonds, thus it is a salt.

Similarly, you can make Ca(NO3)2 (calcium nitrate), by mixing Ca(OH)2 with HNO3. The H+ and OH- make water, leaving Ca+ and NO3-. Calcium nitrate is a salt.

Magnesium sulfate can be made with magnesium hydroxide and sulfuric acid.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your input ,these reactions would be referred to as a neutralization reactions if im correct.
For instance treating potassium hydroxide with hydrochloric acid would result in potassium chloride.