severe leaf edge curl

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jonathanfrost

Member
strain: white widow (supposedly) two clones less than two weeks old.
light: vented 1000w hps @ 4 feet
media: 5 gallons 80/20 coco/perlite
nutes: canna coco a&b, cannazym, rhyzotonic @ 2/3 strength 1 gallon hand watered when needed
pH: in 5.8/out 6.3
EC: in around 1.6/out around 1.4
media pH: 6.3 when moist and diluted 1:1.5 distilled water
media EC: 0.4 when moist and diluted 1:1.5 distilled water
air temp: 78 degrees F day/65 night
relative humidity: 45-50% (seems to fluctuate between this range hourly)

noticed leaf edge curl a few days ago. first on one plant now on the other. seems to be progressive. i know that pH out is high for coco. this pH in/out has been typical for everything i've ever grown in coco and have never had problems. also, does not show as pH problem. googled this and searched many forums. have seen answers from nute burn, too much light and high heat. i do not believe that any of these are my problem. looking for real solution from experienced grower. can't seem to find it. any ideas? thanks in advance.

View attachment 2423103View attachment 2423104
 
Alexander Supertramp

Alexander Supertramp

Well-Known Member
Maybe praying for magnesium? And distilled water is not a good option for growing as it generally has a negative charge. Meaning as it passes through the medium it steals electrons which can cause all sorts of funky issues.
 
J

jonathanfrost

Member
today i noticed that the newly developed leaves are exhibiting true signs of Mg deficiency (puffy with light green/yellowish color and reddish leaf stems) and Ca (tips drying out. i understand this could be nute burn, but i don't think so. 2/3 dose for canna is very light). i don't see anything that would be causing lockout (EC/pH are good and no signs of nute burn), so i am going to up the nutes to full strength on the next watering and maybe add a few drops of superthrive. i'm also going to try to pump up humidity to 55%. this leaf edge curl may be the result of these deficiencies. canna nutes run light. i think next time i will jump to full dose upon third watering of nutrient solution.

will report findings.

once again, any one out there who has actually seen this and corrected it?
 
jondamon

jondamon

Well-Known Member
IME with Canna coco range it definitely doesn't have enough Mg and Ca I used canna mono Ca and mono Mg in very small doses. Around 1ml per 18litres of nute mix just to help.

Also the canna coco range doesn't lend itself well to high EC tap water. Mine was borderline with 0.2EC which contained some nitrate and phosphates straight out the tap. I would get a serious Ca def around week5 of flowering when not supplementing.

When you run out of nutes I highly recommend CANNA AQUA VEGA nutes the whole way through with 1ml per 9litres of nute mix of Ca and Mg.

With this combo you can pretty much wave bye bye to ZYM and BOOST and just use the PK13/14 when required during flowering.




J
 
J

jonathanfrost

Member
jondamon said:
IME with Canna coco range it definitely doesn't have enough Mg and Ca I used canna mono Ca and mono Mg in very small doses. Around 1ml per 18litres of nute mix just to help.

Also the canna coco range doesn't lend itself well to high EC tap water. Mine was borderline with 0.2EC which contained some nitrate and phosphates straight out the tap. I would get a serious Ca def around week5 of flowering when not supplementing.

When you run out of nutes I highly recommend CANNA AQUA VEGA nutes the whole way through with 1ml per 9litres of nute mix of Ca and Mg.

With this combo you can pretty much wave bye bye to ZYM and BOOST and just use the PK13/14 when required during flowering.




J
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thanks for the feedback and yea. it's strange. i've never had a ca/mg problem with canna before. my tap EC is .4 on the dot. we don't have cogr here so i had considered using the aqua line instead of coco because of their fit for veg/flower opposed to just a general a/b mix. the guys at the grow shop basically ridiculed me for this idea and with a lack of info online i stayed with coco a/b and haven't had any problems til now. if the problem isn't fixed in the next couple days i will supplement with a ca/mg.

not that i doubt you, but why would that mix make zym and boost obsolete? zym and boost don't contain any npk or trace elements and aqua and ca/mg don't contain enzymes or carbs. how does this work?
 
jondamon

jondamon

Well-Known Member
ZYM isn't needed unless you plan to reuse the coco its just another way to keep you spending money.

The boost for the price vs extra yield is a bit of a joke.

Don't get me wrong i used to be sceptical myself. I used to run coco at first, then I went hydro, then back to coco. I've used the full lineup of canna and all versions gave me leaf problems. Until I checked the NPK ratios of the AQUA VEGA, I can't remember off hand but 6,4,8 rings a bell. This gives healthy lush well performing plants. Through trial and error I found 1ml per 9litres of Ca and Mg to be the best combo for coco. It gives enough to stop the notorious Ca/Mg issues coco can have.

Once you try this combo, if you do, you will see what I mean.

Another good addition if you want to try it is Mycorrhizae fungi, and also Trichoderma. Mycorhizal fungi attaches itself to the roots and creates another form of root branching actively extending the root hairs and they feed on exudates from the plants roots.
Trichoderma feeds on decaying roots etc the same food source as soil dwelling pests and helps prevent infestations by out competing them for food.


J
 
jondamon

jondamon

Well-Known Member
Just thought I would throw a possible reason for the leaf curl could be oscillating fan position.

If the plant in question is in the direct path of an Osc fan or intake fan the RH could be alot less at the leaf surface causing the roll.


Sorry if I rambled a little in that last post. I've hit some FRUITY CHRONIC JUICE tonight by delicious and its quite a heavy hit. Lol.




J
 
growinman

growinman

Well-Known Member
You taught me a thing or two Jondamon, being a Canna user myself.....for years.
I am with you on the RH being too low at the canopy level as being the best bet for the OP. I have that happen myself, still, once in awhile if I let any get too close to the lights. I was trying to blow the heat out of there and made it worse. The answer ended up being I was too close in the lights and my RH needed to be increased to finish that run out, crispy leafs and all......... Now I think I would keep them bent out of the way if it were an option and they were frying....
But yeah, try putting a RH meter up at the canopy level and answer that real quick......

Great Luck!

gman
 
J

jonathanfrost

Member
growinman said:
You taught me a thing or two Jondamon, being a Canna user myself.....for years.
I am with you on the RH being too low at the canopy level as being the best bet for the OP. I have that happen myself, still, once in awhile if I let any get too close to the lights. I was trying to blow the heat out of there and made it worse. The answer ended up being I was too close in the lights and my RH needed to be increased to finish that run out, crispy leafs and all......... Now I think I would keep them bent out of the way if it were an option and they were frying....
But yeah, try putting a RH meter up at the canopy level and answer that real quick......

Great Luck!

gman
Click to expand...
thanks for the input. my hygrometer is dead center my canopy. it reads between 45-50% at any given time of the day or night. my light is 4 feet away. the leaves are not crispy. they are soft. they are just curling in like crazy. they are directly exposed to the fan, but it is a very light breeze. i have never had this problem with a similar breeze in all of my years of growing. if upping the nutes does not fix this, i am going to assume that the genetics are bad especially considering this is a problem that very few have seen and nobody has an answer to.
 
growinman

growinman

Well-Known Member
jonathanfrost said:
thanks for the input. my hygrometer is dead center my canopy. it reads between 45-50% at any given time of the day or night. my light is 4 feet away. the leaves are not crispy. they are soft. they are just curling in like crazy. they are directly exposed to the fan, but it is a very light breeze. i have never had this problem with a similar breeze in all of my years of growing. if upping the nutes does not fix this, i am going to assume that the genetics are bad especially considering this is a problem that very few have seen and nobody has an answer to.
Click to expand...
----yeah, idk..........pics??
I missed most of the first page and you have everything seeming spot on!
Good luck, I am sure somebody or yourself will get her figured out!

peace
 
jondamon

jondamon

Well-Known Member
Can you put your hygrometer right where the problem leaves are, maybe on top of the coco and allow a few hours for RH to truly read.

The only times I have seen this is because of Lack of RH through heat or through fan positioning.

I know you've recorded the RH at your canopy but I'm talking specifically where the curl is happening.



J
 
J

jonathanfrost

Member
jondamon, will do, man. i'll report back.

chuck, thanks, man! what a find! i'll give em a look under a microscope. i have a 60x some where. i'll find it and report back in a few!
 
J

jonathanfrost

Member
ok. RH at plant base is right around 48% which is consistent with wall reading. checked for mites with my 60x magnifier and could not see anything unusual. i emailed pogenetics as they suggest. hopefully they will get back to me.

will report.

thanks again.
 
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