sick plants please help

Alienwidow

Alienwidow

Well-Known Member
Did you say something about canna earlier? Was that the coco or the nutes you had. If moneys no object go buy a ppm meter so you can accurately feed with synthetic food. Id say she needs about 350-400 ppm every third watering and as it grows in size increase it. Also as the soil loses its natural food youll have to feed nore often, like every second watering. Any two part base nutes will work, advanced, canna, dyna grow, botanicare.... Base nutes and a calmag supplement is what i base my fertilizer shedule on. I use a couple more things but thatll give you great plants with no deficiancies almost every time.
 
scott smith

scott smith

Member
Alienwidow said:
Did you say something about canna earlier? Was that the coco or the nutes you had. If moneys no object go buy a ppm meter so you can accurately feed with synthetic food. Id say she needs about 350-400 ppm every third watering and as it grows in size increase it. Also as the soil loses its natural food youll have to feed nore often, like every second watering. Any two part base nutes will work, advanced, canna, dyna grow, botanicare.... Base nutes and a calmag supplement is what i base my fertilizer shedule on. I use a couple more things but thatll give you great plants with no deficiancies almost every time.
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iv got a ppm meter n phd meter im leaning 2wards advanced grow micro bllom with calmag plus
 
daloudpack

daloudpack

Well-Known Member
yea just water for a couple feedings make sure ur getting a good runn off/drain from the bottom hence Flushing out some of the chemicals...
 
Skunk Baxter

Skunk Baxter

Well-Known Member
Overall, the plants doesn't look bad, although they are awfully small for almost 6 weeks. That could be explained by a number of things, especially if you repotted from coco to soil partway through.

But given the pictures, and everything you're describing, I'm suspicious about magnesium deficiencies. Looking at the pictures, it seems as though some of your stems are a nice shade of green and others are purple. Purple stems are usually about genetics, but can also be a sign that the plant was magnesium deficient at the time that stem was growing. Couple that with the fact that the purple stems look like they're in the same area as the pale leaves, and the fact that it sounds as though you're bouncing around a bit trying to dial in the right nute mix, and I would be inclined to suspect that the availability of usable magnesium to your plant has been inconsistent. I'm not sure when you took them out of the coco and put them in soil, but coco is notorious for magnesium problems.

It could be you had a magnesium problem, but solved it when you repotted. I'd watch the new growth; that'll tell the tale. To me, the lower leaves look more consistent with magnesium deficiency than nitrogen deficiency. They don't look to me the way a leaf usually does when a plant pulls nitrogen out of the old growth and moves it upward - the color gradient seems wrong to me. The difference in color between the veins of the leaf and the area between the veins just doesn't seem right. The only problem is, if that's magnesium deficiency, it's not where I would expect to see it - I'd expect it higher up on the plant. So I dunno what to make of it. You want to watch that carefully and make sure it doesn't spread upwards; if it does, that's a problem you'll need to get out in front of from Day One.

I don't know how hard your water is, but if you have hard water to begin with and are also adding Calmag, that could be enough calcium to lock out your magnesium. Throwing more magnesium at it with Epsom salts won't get around that, but can help lead to nute burn and locking out other nutrients. Once you start chasing multiple deficiencies, it can get complicated. If it were me, I'd start by checking the PPM of my starting water, then the PPM after adding base nutes and calmag,and then again after the Epsom salts. You do have some indicators of nute burn and possible lockout, so I'd want to know exactly how many salts and dissolved minerals are in there and where each one is coming from.

I'd also be curious to know what your soil ph is. If the ph is low, you could have exactly the right nute mix, but the magnesium is just sitting there because the plant can't take it up (especially if you have a calcium excess). Magnesium is best absorbed at ph levels much higher than most nutes, and in fact at alkilinities too high for some nutes to be usefull at all. A cheap ph meter could give you a lot of answers.

At any rate, I'm not normally a big one on flushing, but this is a case where I think it would be a good idea. If you had a TDS meter, it would be nice to know the ppm of the runoff from your flush. If for no other reason than that you'd learn a lot about what flushes can and can't do.
 
scott smith

scott smith

Member
bryangtho said:
I wound just give them a flush and just back off the chemical a bit.
They look really good when im in veg I run chem level at 1000ppm
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Skunk Baxter said:
Overall, the plants doesn't look bad, although they are awfully small for almost 6 weeks. That could be explained by a number of things, especially if you repotted from coco to soil partway through.

But given the pictures, and everything you're describing, I'm suspicious about magnesium deficiencies. Looking at the pictures, it seems as though some of your stems are a nice shade of green and others are purple. Purple stems are usually about genetics, but can also be a sign that the plant was magnesium deficient at the time that stem was growing. Couple that with the fact that the purple stems look like they're in the same area as the pale leaves, and the fact that it sounds as though you're bouncing around a bit trying to dial in the right nute mix, and I would be inclined to suspect that the availability of usable magnesium to your plant has been inconsistent. I'm not sure when you took them out of the coco and put them in soil, but coco is notorious for magnesium problems.

It could be you had a magnesium problem, but solved it when you repotted. I'd watch the new growth; that'll tell the tale. To me, the lower leaves look more consistent with magnesium deficiency than nitrogen deficiency. They don't look to me the way a leaf usually does when a plant pulls nitrogen out of the old growth and moves it upward - the color gradient seems wrong to me. The difference in color between the veins of the leaf and the area between the veins just doesn't seem right. The only problem is, if that's magnesium deficiency, it's not where I would expect to see it - I'd expect it higher up on the plant. So I dunno what to make of it. You want to watch that carefully and make sure it doesn't spread upwards; if it does, that's a problem you'll need to get out in front of from Day One.

I don't know how hard your water is, but if you have hard water to begin with and are also adding Calmag, that could be enough calcium to lock out your magnesium. Throwing more magnesium at it with Epsom salts won't get around that, but can help lead to nute burn and locking out other nutrients. Once you start chasing multiple deficiencies, it can get complicated. If it were me, I'd start by checking the PPM of my starting water, then the PPM after adding base nutes and calmag,and then again after the Epsom salts. You do have some indicators of nute burn and possible lockout, so I'd want to know exactly how many salts and dissolved minerals are in there and where each one is coming from.

I'd also be curious to know what your soil ph is. If the ph is low, you could have exactly the right nute mix, but the magnesium is just sitting there because the plant can't take it up (especially if you have a calcium excess). Magnesium is best absorbed at ph levels much higher than most nutes, and in fact at alkilinities too high for some nutes to be usefull at all. A cheap ph meter could give you a lot of answers.

At any rate, I'm not normally a big one on flushing, but this is a case where I think it would be a good idea. If you had a TDS meter, it would be nice to know the ppm of the runoff from your flush. If for no other reason than that you'd learn a lot about what flushes can and can't do.
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thanks yeah i deffo have been inconsistent they were in coco from been sprouted from seed for about 2 weeks then thats when i noticed the leave problems so i tranplanted in soil the new growth is fine its the very bottom leave going light green and the veins stay darker green and going crusty and the edges nowere near as bad as that photo up there but still very very similar! all the research iv done all leads me to mag def but that confuses me becasuse iv fed them mag plenty so im going feed them plain water and catch the runoff and ppm it see how high it comes out my fresh water has a ppm of 87 out of the tap
 
Skunk Baxter

Skunk Baxter

Well-Known Member
Oh, good, that's relatively soft water. That's to your advantage. You get up in the couple hundred ppms, and that's usually mostly calcium, so your soup is sometimes on the verge of locking out mag as soon as you start throwing in the calmag and before you even get to the Epsom. I still think ph will be helpful though. Hope for low ph, if you correct that, it could free up a lot more calcium without having to throw more nutes at it. Ya always wanna keep those ppm as low as possible.
 
daloudpack

daloudpack

Well-Known Member
if ur using tap water stay away from calmag or go very light ull lock it out like skunk said. i learned this from experience
 
scott smith

scott smith

Member
SO iv took every1 advice and i want to thank all you guys for helping a newbie so yea ive waterd just plain water and catched the run of and my ppm of the run off is 1600 :( 5-6 in to veg so im over feeding am i right? and my problem is probs toxsity ? so i shud keep watering plain water for a week or 2?? thanks again guys you really dont no how much my plants mean to me i love growing and i just want to be good at it iv just joined this site a few days ago now im a member for life lol :)
 
daloudpack

daloudpack

Well-Known Member
scott smith said:
im guna flush my plants and start a fresh what nute would you recomend for a soil grow its just some cheap soil and compost and im in week 5 veg moneys no object really i can afford any nutes like you said get the best
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look into fox farms trio its really quit easy to work with although in flower i give my plants 3 tsp each of big bloom , grow big , and tiger bloom instead of following the schedule
 
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