Small Pots First! Then Transplant!

NorthernMan

Member
One thing I learned from working at a nursery all my life is that plants will send the roots to the edge of a bucket and then wrap around the outside edge. Nurseries will start a plant in a small container so the roots will use the soil in the center and then transplant to a slightly larger bucket and allow the plant to fill in that space and transplant to the next size.

When a seedling is started in a huge bucket the roots won't use the soil in the middle but will spread to the edge. By starting small and transplanting them to the next size and then the next size the plant will take advantage of the soil in the middle and you won't need as big a bucket. Roots always spread until they hit resistance and then they will thicken up and use the soil in the middle.

Its more time consuming to transplant them from small to medium to large but the roots will make good use of all the soil and not just the outer edge. When growing in containers I've always started with a Solo cup to a 1 gallon to a 2 gallon then a 3 gallon to a 5 gallon for the season. When I break the root-ball apart after harvest the entire root-ball has even distribution of roots. I've seen some of my buddies root-balls who grows his plants in 7 gallon buckets from seedlings and the center has barely any roots at all, its like a 3 gallon pot worth of soil in the center with barely any roots, and all the roots are formed around the outer edge. I'm a believer in transplanting when the roots have filled in the soil they have. Working with nursery plants was my job for 25 years and if it works for all types of ornamental plants the same principle applies to weed.

When transplanting from one size to the next, the roots that are growing around the root-ball need to be cut gently all the way around the root-ball, vertically sliced every couple inches so the roots will grow outward and stop wrapping around. This may seem like it will harm the plant to some people but that is not the case. By gently slicing the outer layer of roots that are becoming root bound, which will strangle the plant if left alone, you will actually be promoting root growth. Just as when you cut the top of a plant and that cut promotes the growth of new top, the same principle is at work under the soil with the roots. Gently slicing the roots around the edge of the root-ball will encourage more root growth and the roots will grow toward the outside edge. When they hit the edge of the new bigger bucket, they will again begin to wrap around which is fine for a while. When the plants have used up the soil of the new bigger pot, its time to transplant to a bigger bucket again. Same thing, gently cut the roots that are wrapping around with vertical slices every couple inches around the root-ball and transplant to a bigger bucket.

I know someone will be thinking that nurseries transplant from one size to the next for the purpose of selling the plants, bigger bucket= more money. While that is true that is not the only reason they do it. They do the same thing with plants and trees that won't be sold for years. It would be easier and less labor intensive to put ornamental plants in a 3 gallon bucket as a seedling but thats not the best way to grow the plant. If its a dwarf evergreen that grows slowly it would take a couple years before the plant was ready to sell and it would be root bound around the outer edge while the middle of the root-ball would be wasted soil and the plants wouldn't be as healthy because they would be being strangled. Roots always go to the outside until they hit resistance, then they thicken.

Starting in a huge container will just allow the roots to grow through all the soil in the middle without filling it and using all the soil which is a waste of soil.
 
004.jpg005.jpg002.jpgwe go from solo cups to 1/2 gallon jugs then sex out and into 3 gallon until they go outside into what ever size we use for where they go
 
View attachment 2984430View attachment 2984434View attachment 2984436we go from solo cups to 1/2 gallon jugs then sex out and into 3 gallon until they go outside into what ever size we use for where they go

That sounds perfect. Weed does grow way faster than dwarf ornamental evergreens, and I was trying to explain why nurseries don't just start things in a 3 gallon pot from the seedling. How old are your plants when you are able to sex them out? I'm wondering about Brains Choice. I don't have the money to get all females and I want a male for breeding.

I want to get 10 Northern Lights Special seeds from KC Brains and use a male to start working the Northern again. I also want to try the Northern Lights Blue which is 100% Indica from Delicious seeds, which only comes feminized. I'll breed a male of KC's Northern Lights Special to the female NL Blue and see what the combo produces. I LOVE the Northern...LOL
Lights.

I might also get "The Church" which is 70/30 Indica dominate and a blend of Swiss Sativa Skunk, Super Skunk, and Northern Lights for breeding purposes.

I have all these plans in my head but being realistic I can only have 2 or 3 males because each male requires a totally different location so I don't accidentally cross pollinate. So far its males of Brains Choice and Northern Lights Special.

Breeding Site A
Brains Choice (M) x Brains Choice (F)
Brains Choice (M) x Northern Lights Special (F)
Brains Choice (M) x Northern Lights Blue (F)
Brains Choice (M) x The Church (F)

Breeding Site B
Northern Lights Special (M) x Northern Lights Special (F)
Northern Lights Special (M) x Brains Choice (F)
Northern Lights Special (M) x Northern Lights Blue (F) 100% Indica
Northern Lights Special (M) x The Church (F)
 
With all my plans for breeding this year I'm hoping to make friends with someone who wants to use my lights and set up a grow room so I can cut clones and keep the mothers of new strains alive for back-crossing. Maybe I can escape my poverty and rent a house or something after the harvest. Its keeping clones of the mothers alive until then that seems to be a problem right now but I've got months to figure it out.

I've got 6- 600 watt Ultra-Cool Lights and 2-Pioneer 8 tube fluorescence's just waiting to be plugged in again.
 
most of our strains pre sex after 40-50 days of veggie time so we don't flip light to sex . thats one of the traites we look for with breeding along with mold resistance and everything that doesn't we put seawarp into so it will pre-sex after that due to the quick flowering genetics in seawarp - using the iranian for breeding also does the same to get pre sexing strains brains choice we use female seeds
 
most of our strains pre sex after 40-50 days of veggie time so we don't flip light to sex . thats one of the traites we look for with breeding along with mold resistance and everything that doesn't we put seawarp into so it will pre-sex after that due to the quick flowering genetics in seawarp - using the iranian for breeding also does the same to get pre sexing strains brains choice we use female seeds

I loved clones, always the same and you knew what you had and what you'd get at the end. With seeds there are so many variables. Male or female, phemno types, mislabeled seeds. BC Bud Depot screwed up my order years ago and gave me some awesome varieties but it could have been a nightmare if I was depending on getting what I ordered. You had no problem with the "Tude" getting Brains Choice right? How did you place the order and how did you pay? Anything I need to know? PM me with the details if you don't want to post on the open forum. I saw your seed packs so I'm assuming you had them sent in the original packaging. I'm saving my pennies getting ready to place an order. I'm trying to decide if I should split the order if its big. I can't afford to lose the money if the shipment gets grabbed by customs. Its under $20 for 10 regular seeds of Brains Choice but I'm gonna order 100.

I also am planning on 10 regular NL Special's, 5 NL Blue's females, 5 feminized of The Church. I'm nervous of losing a big order.
 
I agree, however, solo,to 1,2,3 then 5 is a bit much for me, I do solo(inside to start)>3or 5 till sexed outside> 10's

Your right, its totally over kill but it was just a habit, like a muscle memory reflex... LOL Solo to a 1, then 3 then 5 or 10 is fine. My point was that starting a seed in a 10 gallon pot will allow the roots to bypass the middle of the pot and be wasting lots of soil and some people use expensive soil. I was speaking as a nurseryman, that its better to do stages of pot sizes rather than starting out in a huge pot. I was the master of over kill.

People used to always ask me why my weed was so much better than all my buddies when we all grew the same strain of "Old School" Northern Lights and my reply was, "Because I grow them with LOVE!" People would tell me that I treated my plants better than my dog who I loved, and I'd reply "The dog don't get me high!" LOL
 
Because I pinch and bend the plants I end up with multiple topped dense bushes and I've had some of the prettiest males that were so beautiful I had a hard time killing them. Nothing sucks more than to have an awesome 16 topped monster shrub and see it produce pollen balls. Such a waste of time, space, nutes and LOVE. AHHHHHH! Clones are awesome but I also love breeding new strains. We should have a prettiest male contest...LOL
 
if the roots are strong out of the cloner. toss it into the larger pot. the smaller pot just slows it down. you can put it straight into a 1000 gallon pot if you wanted. try a side by side compare it. 1 small cup other the size pot you plan on using . and next time you will be using the bigger pot .
 
I've always been in the pot them up a little at a time camp myself, but have started seeds directly in 5 gallon buckets with great success.
 
if the roots are strong out of the cloner. toss it into the larger pot. the smaller pot just slows it down. you can put it straight into a 1000 gallon pot if you wanted. try a side by side compare it. 1 small cup other the size pot you plan on using . and next time you will be using the bigger pot .
this is more for ppl who don't just have 100 gal of soil to spare for each plant. if your only planning to finish in 5 -10 gal pots, its best to graduate up, I like to slowly give them a little more soil to grow into, will it slow growth when it starts to out grow the container, yes, and then shortly after you transplant, but regardless, unless u have vast amounts of soil and root space to accommodate the rapid growth of the plant. once your roots reach the edges and run out of space(which is gonna happen in a 10 gal container whether you started it in it or not) growth is gonna slow.
 
Smidge, Mr. MJ, ilyaas123,

You understand, thank you for speaking up, I was feeling alone there after Kind diesels remarks.

if you put them directly into massive pots they won't handle thunderstorms as well, but what do I know, I've only been playing with plants for a living for the past 30 years. And yes for the record, I do experiments constantly and record the data for future reference.

In the words of the late great Dale Earnhardt "There are two ways to do this... My Way, and the Wrong Way!" Just kidding... Not really! LOL
 
Great thread and it only makes sense! Plant needs to build up its support system and by starting small it builds a stronger foundation before going bigger. Also it is much easier to keep a smaller area watered and under control than it is with a larger pot. In summer where I am it is close to 40c and with clear skies I would say it gets to close to 45 on my roof. It is a nightmare screwing with seedlings in larger pots as the soil dries out so quick. Small pots, no issues and pretty damn good root structure
 
Smidge, Mr. MJ, ilyaas123,

You understand, thank you for speaking up, I was feeling alone there after Kind diesels remarks.

if you put them directly into massive pots they won't handle thunderstorms as well, but what do I know, I've only been playing with plants for a living for the past 30 years. And yes for the record, I do experiments constantly and record the data for future reference.

In the words of the late great Dale Earnhardt "There are two ways to do this... My Way, and the Wrong Way!" Just kidding... Not really! LOL


well thats why a forum is good to see what everyones opinions are - opinions are like assholes everybody has one so i just go with the flow and see what general opinions are lol.. i learn from things when you get all kinds of answers generally speaking on different issues
 
Nice thread NorthernMan :) I have always wondered why the many transplants instead of just into final pot. Now I know and will do this way. Thanks
 
Im with Diesel on this one. The plant isn't going to grow any slower or not use up the soil in a bigger pot. If you put a seedling directly into the ground with no limitation, what happens to It ? I do believe that once the plant is established it will vigorously out grow what ever pot it is in on the same time frame according to pot size. People up pot to save room as they go from clone to flower. That is all. lol IMHO/azzhoe lol.
 
Im with Diesel on this one. The plant isn't going to grow any slower or not use up the soil in a bigger pot. If you put a seedling directly into the ground with no limitation, what happens to It ? I do believe that once the plant is established it will vigorously out grow what ever pot it is in on the same time frame according to pot size. People up pot to save room as they go from clone to flower. That is all. lol IMHO/azzhoe lol.

"If you put a seedling directly into the ground with no limitation, what happens to It ?"

Heres the thing, in the ground the seedling will encounter real friction and have to borough its way through the soil becoming strong doing so.

In a 10 gallon pot filled with fluffy premium soil the roots grow right to the outside edge without the friction that makes them strong. Its resistance that strengthens the plant. Want an example grow a seedling indoors without a fan and you know what will happen, it will weaken and fall over instead of growing strong from the wind of a fan.

I'm just sharing what nurseries do, and why... Comparing fluffy foxfire farm type soils to nature is apples to oranges.

All in all it comes down to this... see my signature... LOL!
 
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