Start of a problem?

Hi guys, I just have 2 or 3 leaves showing these symptoms. Maybe I can get a jump on the issue.
I'm getting yellow spots/dots in the middle of the leaf. Seems to be only effecting lower leaves.

I'm growing indoors under COB lights using Pro-Mix and AN's base nutes + voodoo juice, B52 and rhino skin (Silica) using base nutes at about 3/4 strength and the others at about 1/2 rec. dose
They are in veg and currently looking healthy.
Also using cal-mag at about 1/4 rec. dosage read from the bottle.

Also what I'm suspecting could have cause it is an ice storm knocked out my power for 2 days so I brought them inside the house and put them in front of windows, being winter here I put a LED flashlight over them when it got dark out so they wont flip. They got a lot colder (10C vs 25C) and a lot less light input than usual for 2 days.

Have been getting very slight burning of the tips, but the spots/dots issues happened soon after giving just ph'd water+rhino skin....but that's also about when the power got knocked out.

I think I may have answered my own question with the ice storm thing, but I'm wondering if this looks like a cal-mag issue or something else so if it gets worse I can get a jump on treating it.

Thank you for any input.

How large and old are the plants? What kind of soil? You probably only need the base nutes. What is the reason for adding B52 and rhino skin?

"Have been getting very slight burning of the tip"
Symptoms of over fertilization. Cut back on the nutes.

Less is better.

What's your ph

The plants are about 9 weeks from seed. Its in Pro-Mix soil, Ph of water is 6.3-6.2.
They are only about a foot tall, maybe less but that's because I've been topping them since I'm trying out Mainlining. I'm all finished topping and they are in their final pots (5 gallon) so now they are growing very quickly.

I am adding B-52 under the advice of my father in-law who works for AN. He believes personally that you don't need AN's whole line, he believes they all have their place.
But there are a few things he recommends for every grow and that is B-52, Big Bud, Carbo Load and I cant remember the last one but its either bud ignitor or overdrive.
These are his personal opinions and not what AN tells him to say.

I use all the nutrients at lower than recommended level, but I noticed the burnt tips started happening after I started using voodoo juice, according to AN (I know I know don't trust the marketer) the microbes in VJ helps uptake more nutrients and you will need less nutes overall from using VJ... yes I'm sure they say whatever you want to hear but it seems to be doing what it says.

The Rhino Skin is my own decision since I've heard silica helps build thicker stems and help tolerate heat/cold swings. I'm sure I could drop that one. Ill be honest its hard not to try the products since I'm in the family and get the base nutes for free and everything else at 1/2 price....

Yes I am pretty new to growing so I'm trying to get first hand experience on what works and what doesn't. Ive seen opinions go all the way left and all the way right from people who grow good weed, its really hard to decide who is right when both are good quality lol.

I didnt have success with anybody's advice, not until I read Jorge Cervantes medical Grow bible,
then I read Ed Rosenthals bible and learned why I succeeded.

I've used the same AN base nutrients -without the voodoo juice, B52, Rhino Skin, Cal Mag
successfully in promix for a couple years.
Maybe they dont like inclement weather I dunno, or the 4 other additives.....
I see clear symptoms of over feeding, maybe some ill watering habits too. I'm with @xtsho

its in there....

http://catnews.org/FREE Pot Books/

Cobbyist said:

I use all the nutrients at lower than recommended level, but I noticed the burnt tips started happening after I started using voodoo juice, according to AN (I know I know don't trust the marketer) the microbes in VJ helps uptake more nutrients and you will need less nutes overall from using VJ... yes I'm sure they say whatever you want to hear but it seems to be doing what it says..

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Any myco supplement will provide similar results. The word mycorrhizae literally breaks down to mean root fungus. Beneficial organisms colonize the roots of most plants, actually living within the root. If you look closely at a healthy, undisturbed root you'll notice a fine fuzz growing all over it, this is the mycelium of the fungus within the root. The myco's excrete compounds that break down organic matter in the soil into a water soluble form, these water soluble molecules (organic nutrients) are then move through the mycelium back to the root. Anything the fungus doesn't want it gives to the plant, and the plant is also secreting carbonous compounds through their roots that the myco's love, completing the symbiotic parasitic relationship between the plant and the parasite.

Scientists didn't realize at the time of creating the term mycorrhizae that there are also symbiotic relations between plants and certain types of bacteria as well. Not only does it improve uptake of nutrients, it also improves uptake of water, protects the roots from pathogens (to an extent) and improves the plants immune system. It's the same concept as you taking a probiotic supplement, but instead of roots probiotics colonize our intestines while doing all the same things for us that they do for plants (except for water intake, we have to handle that one on our own).

EDIT When I say plants, I mean all plants, not just pot plants. All pot plants for this relationship, but not ALL plant species do, most but not all.

chemphlegm said:

I didnt have success with anybody's advice, not until I read Jorge Cervantes medical Grow bible,
then I read Ed Rosenthals bible and learned why I succeeded.

I've used the same AN base nutrients -without the voodoo juice, B52, Rhino Skin, Cal Mag
successfully in promix for a couple years.
Maybe they dont like inclement weather I dunno, or the 4 other additives.....
I see clear symptoms of over feeding, maybe some ill watering habits too. I'm with @xtsho

its in there....

http://catnews.org/FREE Pot Books/

Click to expand...

I just started to google free pdf books on plant physiology, botany, mycology, chemistry and ecology a few years ago. I read tons of weed books, but none of the ones I read explained why to do what they say to do, and that's what I wanted to know. Even if a person just read the first couple of chapters of some of these free pdf text books they would be pretty damn well off.

Wow thanks for the list of books! That will certainly come in handy. I've seen YouTube videos of Jorge Cervantes giving tips on how to grow, I was wondering if that's the "real" Jorge?

I'm gonna drop the Silica for now, I was planning on only giving them a few doses of it but ill just stop.

Cal-Mag...I've heard over and over again that plants under LED need more of this, I guess I haven't heard hard science about that but I haven't heard hard science against it either.. on the fence.

The B52 the only advice I have on that is from my father in law. Anybody have any arguments against it? Willing to listen.

Voodoo juice I don't see much of a problem, its bacteria that are geared to help plants...I don't see the harm in this product since its living bacteria vs salt based chemicals.

I just have a hard time taking the "you do/don't want to do that, trust me" answers. I need a little bit of an explanation behind things to understand why. But I'm going to start reading some of those books posted above that should be a good start.

Cobbyist said:

Wow thanks for the list of books! That will certainly come in handy. I've seen YouTube videos of Jorge Cervantes giving tips on how to grow, I was wondering if that's the "real" Jorge?

I'm gonna drop the Silica for now, I was planning on only giving them a few doses of it but ill just stop.

Cal-Mag...I've heard over and over again that plants under LED need more of this, I guess I haven't heard hard science about that but I haven't heard hard science against it either.. on the fence.

The B52 the only advice I have on that is from my father in law. Anybody have any arguments against it? Willing to listen.

Voodoo juice I don't see much of a problem, its bacteria that are geared to help plants...I don't see the harm in this product since its living bacteria vs salt based chemicals.

I just have a hard time taking the "you do/don't want to do that, trust me" answers. I need a little bit of an explanation behind things to understand why. But I'm going to start reading some of those books posted above that should be a good start.

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Silicates are great as a supplement if you're in soiless or hydro, but useless in soil/organic grows as there are sufficient levels in the soil. Plants do not require silicates, but benefit from the occasional addition of them (in soiless or hydro).

B52 sounds like a b vitamin supplement? If so, there have been university studies that have proven that plants do not uptake b vitamins from the soil. That being said, their occasional addition is beneficial to the myco's in the soil that use the b vitamins the same way animals do, to help metabolize food. Which based on my previous post about the nature of myco's, you should be able to fill in the blanks as to how this benefits your ladies.

Voodoo juice from what I've read is an awesome product, but you don't need to add it at every watering. The myco's in the juice will colonize your medium, but over time populations of certain organisms will rise and fall, eventually leading to the rise of non-beneficial organisms. At that point the addition of more juice will be useful.

Read into making compost teas if you don't already. Use a small amount of the voodoo juice as an inoculant. When you're in soil, you should focus more on the soil than you do the plant. If your soil is healthy so is your plant. And your soil will LOVE tea, I promise you that.

dtl420 said:

Silicates are great as a supplement if you're in soiless or hydro, but useless in soil/organic grows as there are sufficient levels in the soil. Plants do not require silicates, but benefit from the occasional addition of them (in soiless or hydro).

B52 sounds like a b vitamin supplement? If so, there have been university studies that have proven that plants do not uptake b vitamins from the soil. That being said, their occasional addition is beneficial to the myco's in the soil that use the b vitamins the same way animals do, to help metabolize food. Which based on my previous post about the nature of myco's, you should be able to fill in the blanks as to how this benefits your ladies.

Voodoo juice from what I've read is an awesome product, but you don't need to add it at every watering. The myco's in the juice will colonize your medium, but over time populations of certain organisms will rise and fall, eventually leading to the rise of non-beneficial organisms. At that point the addition of more juice will be useful.

Read into making compost teas if you don't already. Use a small amount of the voodoo juice as an inoculant. When you're in soil, you should focus more on the soil than you do the plant. If your soil is healthy so is your plant. And your soil will LOVE tea, I promise you that.

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So basically your on the opposite side of the fence as xtsho and chemphlegm, which in their opinion (at least it sounds like it to me?) all the extra's should be dropped and just go with base nutes. Since I'm using soiless medium it sounds like all your points tell me to use what ive been using.

Just reinforces my point with how confusing things can get.

Cobbyist said:

So basically your on the opposite side of the fence as xtsho and chemphlegm, which in their opinion (at least it sounds like it to me?) all the extra's should be dropped and just go with base nutes. Since I'm using soiless medium it sounds like all your points tell me to use what ive been using.

Just reinforces my point with how confusing things can get.

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Not necessarily. These aren't things that are really NEEDED. You can grow great pot without them. I'm just saying to use them sparingly. The plant will benefit (maybe not as much from the b52) from the addition of these products. I use Dina Gro protekt which is essentially the same thing as rhino skin. Plants outdoors or in soil indoors receive plenty of silicon from the soil, its a common element. But in soilless mediums there's no silicon there. Plants do not require it for healthy growth, but the presence of it is supposed to make the stems stronger. I have never tested it myself, but I have read a LOT about the presence of silicon in soil and it's relationship to plant growth.

No matter what anyone says the voodoo juice is good. I personally use water soluble myco grow from www.fungi.com. And if my memory serves me, myco grow has b vitamins already in it for the organisms. Like I said, it is not needed at every watering, that's a waste. But every once in a while hit them with some myco's, or better yet compost tea!

Cobbyist said:

Just reinforces my point with how confusing things can get.

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I didn't mean to make it seem complicated. You can grow weed with or without those things, just don't use them every feeding if you use them. Some people use the silicate every time they feed, but I don't like having to use pH down. potassium silicate is a strong alkaline, it's one of the main ingredients in pH up, and unless I use a negligible amount I always have to use pH down.

dtl420 said:

I didn't mean to make it seem complicated. You can grow weed with or without those things, just don't use them every feeding if you use them. Some people use the silicate every time they feed, but I don't like having to use pH down. potassium silicate is a strong alkaline, it's one of the main ingredients in pH up, and unless I use a negligible amount I always have to use pH down.

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Its not that what you are saying is complicated or hard to interpret. I understand what your saying perfectly and I'm actually on your side with the belief that these things have a use.

But it also sounds like there is some people here that believe ill see better results by putting those extra things away. and I don't doubt they have grown some really good weed. I have read a few of xtsho's other posts and it seems clear that he gets good results with his technique.

Just like you said as well I think sparingly is key here. Speaking of which I just fed my plants again today and cut back on all things and stopped using Rhino Skin.

you are not using these additives correctly. follow directions and grow without the additives for best results.
If your plants dont grow well using their base nutrients contact the manufacturer for a full refund.
stop feeding until they are healthy. you are still overfeeding them. stay tuned for a lock out, strange symptoms to never endingly chase and suffering yields if you continue doing as you are.

somehow I read this differently than you, here's what I see;

dtl420 said:

1)Silicates are great as a supplement if you're in soiless or hydro, but useless in soil/organic grows as there are sufficient levels in the soil.
Plants do not require silicates, but benefit from the occasional addition of them (in soiless or hydro).

2) plants do not uptake b vitamins from the soil.
Which based on my previous post about the nature of myco's, you should be able to fill in the blanks as to how this benefits your ladies.= Your plants do not look like they are benefiting at all.

Voodoo juice from what I've read is an awesome product, but you don't need to add it at every watering. The myco's in the juice will colonize your medium, but over time populations of certain organisms will rise and fall, eventually leading to the rise of non-beneficial organisms. At that point the addition of more juice will be useful.

you should focus more on the soil than you do the plant. If your soil is healthy so is your plant. And your soil will LOVE tea, I promise you that.

Click to expand...

a healthy substrate + proper watering/feeding habits - a substrate teaming with life, every needed soil resource is provided, plants are happy, all vitamins and minerals and everythign else needed to support healthy expressions are already in the substrate. overfeeding/over watering results in whacked ph, stunted up take, plant illness, death to beneficial organisms, dying soil/fungal web, anaerobic conditions, plant death.

chemphlegm said:

a healthy substrate + proper watering/feeding habits - a substrate teaming with life, every needed soil resource is provided, plants are happy, all vitamins and minerals and everythign else needed to support healthy expressions are already in the substrate. overfeeding/over watering results in whacked ph, stunted up take, plant illness, death to beneficial organisms, dying soil/fungal web, anaerobic conditions, plant death.

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Absolutely. It's in every soil ecology book/article that you find. When the substrate stays wet too long and/or too often it becomes anaerobic. It's like a sponge, or wet clothes that were forgotten in the washer for a day, they get sour. If you wring out the sponge and let it dry every time you do dishes it'll stay fresh for a long time. But no matter what, eventually that sponge will start to smell sour.
That's why I believe the occasional addition of a mycorrhizae supplement is beneficial in any system. In the soil food web, even a healthy one, the populations of the various microorganisms rise and fall in utter chaos. Some are eating organic matter and shitting it out, then things are eating that shit and shitting it out, some are eating each other. All in all, the addition of mycorrhizae is more of a matter of peace of mind that the only dominant populations are the beneficial organisms.

http://www.univpgri-palembang.ac.id/perpus-fkip/Perpustakaan/Geography/Geografi Tanah/Fundamentals of soil ecology.pdf

A parting gift. Now don't say I never got ya anything.

1)Silicates are great as a supplement if you're in soiless or hydro, but useless in soil/organic grows as there are sufficient levels in the soil.
Plants do not require silicates, but benefit from the occasional addition of them (in soiless or hydro).

It seems like you guys keep saying I'm using soil...correct me here but I thought Pro-Mix was a soiless medium? It was my understanding Pro-Mix is closer to hydro than it is soil? No?

Plants appear healthy and praying to the lights, no sign of additional problems as of yet...but Ill drop the B52 and voodoo juice as well and only use them once or twice in the later end of the grow...and the next go around I will only use them very occasionally. Ill also look in to making compost tea and how to apply properly.

dtl420 thank you for the informative posts with the background mechanics of why you say the things you say, it helps me understand. Speaking of which do you have any knowledge on the relation to LED lights and cal-mag uptake?

Thanks guys for the help. Things are definitely getting dialed back here.

Cobbyist said:

1)Silicates are great as a supplement if you're in soiless or hydro, but useless in soil/organic grows as there are sufficient levels in the soil.
Plants do not require silicates, but benefit from the occasional addition of them (in soiless or hydro).

It seems like you guys keep saying I'm using soil...correct me here but I thought Pro-Mix was a soiless medium? It was my understanding Pro-Mix is closer to hydro than it is soil? No?

Plants appear healthy and praying to the lights, no sign of additional problems as of yet...but Ill drop the B52 and voodoo juice as well and only use them once or twice in the later end of the grow...and the next go around I will only use them very occasionally. Ill also look in to making compost tea and how to apply properly.

dtl420 thank you for the informative posts with the background mechanics of why you say the things you say, it helps me understand. Speaking of which do you have any knowledge on the relation to LED lights and cal-mag uptake?

Thanks guys for the help. Things are definitely getting dialed back here.

Click to expand...

According to google, pro mix is indeed soiless. It contains peat moss, perlite, vermiculite, lime to adjust pH, mycorrhizial inoculant, biofungicide (don't know anything about that), and a wetting agent. Peat moss is considered a soiless medium, very similar to coco coir.

I haven't read anything about LED's effecting cal-mag uptake. I don't see why it would, maybe the intensity of the light causing the plant to draw more water in general might effect it, along with all other nutrients. I'd have to do some research.

But that being said, I have been using LED's for a couple of years and haven't noticed any difference. It could all just be a marketing ploy from a nutrient manufacturer trying to sell more with the growing popularity of LED's.. You have to watch that shit. Remember that all these sales reps know that we're a bunch of stoners, and thanks to the illegalization of the plant most everything we know about the plant was learned by a stoner. There are a lot of products out there that try to use really big words and flashy claims to sell products marketed specifically for weed. I doubt you're going to find a lot of greenhouses using products like "bud sweeteners".. They would probably laugh if you tried to tell them how this snake oil is going to make their tomatoes taste better.. I've read that a lot of these products are just watered down molasses for triple the price of a bottle of straight molasses..

Just do your research, it'll protect you from wasting a lot of money. And please take the advice of a botanist/horticulturalist over a guy that works for Advanced Nutrients. I have actually seen a LOT of people on here talk shit on AN, ain't nobody talkin shit on Dina-Gro.

Thank you for your input dtl420, I would bet AN wouldn't have such a bad rap if they lowered their prices to a respectable level. Every grow I read about that uses it reports good results, I noticed all the bashing seems to be in the overpriced department..

But on that note thanks all for your help, you guys may have turned around my crop. I'll think twice before using the "extra" stuff.

Ive used an for a while now cant complain excet this current run is "funny" but i cant say its necessarily the nutes .

But i do know this is my last run with advanced at least for a long while.

I will say i had some of the supplements but in the end i dropped them and just went with the grow micro bloom.